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This is it?

NewPlayerNewPlayer Member
in General Discussion
I was very hyped for the game even tho I was bit sceptical since the devs been kinda quiet. Now I do know that it can be a good sign and devs have no time for the communication since they are focused on the game.... but was that the case? If AoC combat is gonna be somewhat similar to this BR version, Apocalypse, then RIP AoC...

It's 2019, not 1999... very weird combat design that feels bad. Now don't get me wrong, the animations are kinda fine, even tho the range weapons need a re-work but that's fine, it's early access blabla... all can be fixed. I am talking about the actual combat... it's pure left click faceroll fiesta... magic spells do no damage and you do not get the feeling that you actually used a spell... also using the range weapons feels very weird and if hitting the target it does not feel like... idk I really felt like I was playing some free-to-play 2D browser game... if there is not gonna be a HUGE improvement, then the action combat failed and game should go tab targerting only asap.

Yes, MMORPGs are mostely about gear but we are not in 1999 or something... games developed by a lot and you can actually have skillful fights while winning with less gear... If that is what the combat is gonna be like in the AoC then I am more than just disappointed...

https://streamable.com/nr7fy

Comments

  • NotSoDarkNotSoDark Member
    It will be a combination of this + tab targeting so it will change for the mmo, this is mostly for testing action combat and server stability.
  • NewPlayerNewPlayer Member
    edited September 2019
    Combinations of action combat and tab targeting never worked well tbh. There been always just these options:
    1. Action combat is good, tab targeting not required.
    2. Game works only with tab targerting, no action combat actually possible.
    3. Tab targeting game that implements bad action combat just to look fancy.

    The last game I can think of that had tab targeting + action combat was Bless. Even tho bless failed not because of that, they removed the action combat for most classes which made the combat actually better.
  • NotSoDarkNotSoDark Member
    Guild wars 2 and bdo both have action combat incorporated and both have great pvp scenes, bdo not so much cause its p2w but gw2 is quite nice, very fluid and fast paced combat.
  • NewPlayerNewPlayer Member
    edited September 2019
    Kinda, I am not sure what you are trying to say with that tho. GW2 is tab targeting, BDO is action combat. If BDO is a 8/10 action combat (ignoring desync at this point), then AoC atm is -1/10.

    GW2 is also not really fast paced imo and the PvP modes are quite boring. Therefore the hype for AoC but for now it's just disappointment :/

    Not counting the log-in issues for some people, most seem to share my disappointment:
    https://imgur.com/q4PMqdx

    I really hope AoC is not gonna be as bad as Apocalypse.
  • KingRizenKingRizen Member, Alpha Two
    I sincerely hope there is no tab targeting in the MMO, that would ruin the whole game for me. There is little skill in a tab target game. I was picturing more combat along the lines of DarkFall. I like the skillful aspect of PvP combat as aiming because a thing you have to practice, as well as managing stats, not just going through the 10 spells an moves while tab targeting the enemy you want to hit. Fast paced, give you the shakes kinda combat.
  • NewPlayerNewPlayer Member
    KingRizen wrote: »
    I sincerely hope there is no tab targeting in the MMO, that would ruin the whole game for me. There is little skill in a tab target game. I was picturing more combat along the lines of DarkFall. I like the skillful aspect of PvP combat as aiming because a thing you have to practice, as well as managing stats, not just going through the 10 spells an moves while tab targeting the enemy you want to hit. Fast paced, give you the shakes kinda combat.

    I kinda agree, I'd prefer action combat like in BDO. But AoC is nowhere ready for that and nowhere close to that level if it's the same like in AoCA atm. There is no skill required as you might see in my clip, just smashing lmb untill stamina runs out. Sure there are some things that the other player and I could have done different to make it more a good fight with dodging, blocking, reocvering stamina and swapping weapons but it's still soooo faaaaaaar away from a skillful gameplay that action combat games can deliver nowadays.

    If there is not gonna be a HUGE improvement (and I really do doubt that) then the game is just ready for tab targeting to have somewhat decent combat.

    What you are talking about is what BDO has, several different ressources that you have to manage and specific skill rotation combined with very fast paced movement. AoCA requires only stamina for almost everything. Since AoCA was released for testing purposes I hope they do notice that there are a lot of changes needed for AoC. Game atm feels like some early 2000s MMORPG.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    KingRizen wrote: »
    I sincerely hope there is no tab targeting in the MMO, that would ruin the whole game for me. There is little skill in a tab target game. I was picturing more combat along the lines of DarkFall. I like the skillful aspect of PvP combat as aiming because a thing you have to practice, as well as managing stats, not just going through the 10 spells an moves while tab targeting the enemy you want to hit. Fast paced, give you the shakes kinda combat.

    well, your out of luck the game will have both action and tab combat plus is the hybrid system fails they will revert back to tab.
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  • Rem_Rem_ Member
    It's to test the action combat. They've been busy working on their servers and the mmorpg. I'm going to give it a guess and assume these animations and action combat mechanics aren't even 25% done. They're being tested and taking in feedback. A game with action combat and tab targeting can work, and I'm sure with time they'll get it. If not then they have quite the problem on their hands. With having APOC they're able to show the combat in it's bad state, get feedback and be able to improve it. Imagine if there was NO apoc and they just thought this felt right and the mmorpg came out with this combat. This is why I appreciate the APOC modes even though I'm sure everyone would rather just playtest the mmorpg. It's not ready, the combat needs tons of improvement and they know that. It's been multiple months if not half a year since the last large test and they had to redo their whole backend. They weren't focused on streamlining combat for their side project testing grounds. I'm sure their priority was to get a stable backend first so their games could even run to begin with. I have faith that they'll keep taking feedback into account and make constant changes when possible to the combat throughout the next year or years until the mmorpg is out ~ !
    Poko.png
  • NewPlayerNewPlayer Member
    Poko wrote: »
    It's to test the action combat. They've been busy working on their servers and the mmorpg. I'm going to give it a guess and assume these animations and action combat mechanics aren't even 25% done. They're being tested and taking in feedback.

    That would be my guess as well. The combat is HOPEFULLY not even done to 10%. The question remains tho... what is the point of testing something that is not even remotely done? Test it when you done like 50% of it at least or more... not when you just started... right?
    Not need to be Einstein to predict the feedback here and the feedback was clear.
    Poko wrote: »
    A game with action combat and tab targeting can work
    Can it? I don't know a single one that works and has a healthy player base. Do you know one?
    Poko wrote: »
    Imagine if there was NO apoc and they just thought this felt right and the mmorpg came out with this combat.
    Oh my lord... I actually can't imagine a dev could reach this level of stupidity... but I get your point, my expectations are just too high I guess.
    Poko wrote: »
    This is why I appreciate the APOC modes even though I'm sure everyone would rather just playtest the mmorpg. It's not ready, the combat needs tons of improvement and they know that. It's been multiple months if not half a year since the last large test and they had to redo their whole backend. They weren't focused on streamlining combat for their side project testing grounds. I'm sure their priority was to get a stable backend first so their games could even run to begin with. I have faith that they'll keep taking feedback into account and make constant changes when possible to the combat throughout the next year or years until the mmorpg is out ~ !
    Ye I do kinda doubt as well that they gonna release AoC Q2 2020 as announced. Q4 if lucky... I understand they have a lot of work to do but considering we are in 2020 soon and what they have done so far... that does not look good at all...




  • Rem_Rem_ Member
    @NewPlayer

    I'm not expecting any release super soon just judging on what they're trying to accomplish. I'm not sure exactly but they definitely haven't hit the average development time for an mmorpg. Especially of this scale and what they're trying to do.

    I think there is a good point in testing the combat this early, if they go out and do their combat all the way to 50% and then release it and it's trash then they'll have a wayyyyy larger setback. If they can release their clunky combat now to be tested and get actual player feedback on what's wrong and what needs to be improve, then they can more accurately develop the combat alongside the community.
    Poko.png
  • grisugrisu Member
    @NewPlayer
    NewPlayer wrote: »
    it's pure left click faceroll fiesta...

    That's what we commonly refer to as a learning curve. Nobody understands the game yet so they resort to the most obvious solution. It's already pretty intricate and pure left click faceroll fiesta earned me a lot of 1v1 wins without armor against a fully decked enemy simply by utilizing debuffs and well timed blocks.

    I am not disregarding your points at all, I am just saying that you will see people differentiating themselves pretty soon very hard from those "faceroll fiestas" and dominating their matches from the common crowd.
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  • NewPlayerNewPlayer Member
    grisu wrote: »
    @NewPlayer
    NewPlayer wrote: »
    it's pure left click faceroll fiesta...

    That's what we commonly refer to as a learning curve. Nobody understands the game yet so they resort to the most obvious solution. It's already pretty intricate and pure left click faceroll fiesta earned me a lot of 1v1 wins without armor against a fully decked enemy simply by utilizing debuffs and well timed blocks.

    I am not disregarding your points at all, I am just saying that you will see people differentiating themselves pretty soon very hard from those "faceroll fiestas" and dominating their matches from the common crowd.

    I do know what you mean and I also mentioned that some things could have been done different in my example. Even more than I mentioned, true. The left click faceroll is way too rewarding tho. The entire AoCA is way too unbalanced... I am really not sure what they wanted to test there. Maybe servers performance? Because it definitely was not the combat itself.
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