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Feedback and suggestions on melee weapons. 100+ hours logged since EA.
Freezman
Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Resident no lifer here.
Was a fun 2 weeks grinding to 50. So to celebrate I'm making this feedback thread.
Opinion post, biased, blah blah blah, you get the picture.
Archemage:
I really like where archemage is in the meta rn, it’s has good animations – a quick 1-2 combo with decent arcs and damage as well as a full combo that isn’t hard to land when someone stays melee while also giving the enemy plenty of space to play around the spin at the end because it’s still directional and almost stationary. Archemage stacking is a thing but it doesn’t seem to be overwhelmingly prevalent as it once was. And having stacking builds is probably good to have for a healthy variety of builds. It probably doesn’t feel as overwhelmingly powerful because other items' actives can compete fairly well and that with air dashing it’s possible to disengage fights that during previous metas you wouldn’t be able to disengage. I like that it’s a decent utility pick up even at blue rarity.
Bonesmasher:
Red bonesmasher needs a severe nerf to the ability. And that’s not even considering the tick bug that is currently present. Red bonesmasher’s active seems way too strong number wise compared to other damage actives. Red thundering mace Q is 13 dmg, archemage is 20+knockback, bonesmasher is 24 for 1 hit, but you can reapply it by the end of the duration to get almost double the value. Not only is getting 40 damage out of it not an issue most of the time, in squads you can apply it to multiple enemy targets. I think that either the ability damage should be significantly lowered considering multiple applications (like 30-50%) or the ability should not be reappliable – either make it a one proc that is consumed on hit or make it a one hit per Q per enemy character (so you can apply it to multiple people but can’t reapply it on the same target).
Greatsword:
I think the greatsword is one of the worst weapons right now. Its TTK is the same or almost the same as the spiritpierce / lifebringer / bonesmasher (without Q) but with a severely lackluster active. It can’t compete in damage with the damage weapons so it competes for utility with lifebringer, spirit pierce, archemage and silencer. And it wins out at most only against the silencer, but I’d never pick up either really. I think it the utility aspects needs a boost. Either make the buff last longer, or increase the movement speed. Another potential buff would be to frontload some more combo damage on the first 2 attacks. So it would be feasible to 1-2 punch then kite then 1-2 punch with a bit more success than is possible currently. Maybe make the hits something like 22 and 28 for a total of 50 instead of the current 43 (at red).
Lifebringer:
In my opinion the strongest melee weapon in the game at red rarity. The healing jump from yellow to red is absurd (2x of the blue.) In a head to head 1v1 battle it doesn't lose to any other melee weapon. It can let you 2v1 and sometimes 3v1 during late game if several people are melee range and didn't burst you before your spin comes in. But that 3v1 potential isn't inherently an issue since the enemy players have room to play around it by either blocking or kiting. But I think my biggest issue is how easy it is to use on top of how strong it is. All of lifebringer's animations are really easy to land as they have wide arcs and the 3 spin attacks are 360 degrees. Its TTK is the same as the spirit pierce / greatsword while having a VASTLY superior active and better animations.
In my opinion it's a heavy candidate for nerfs, at the very least at red. Maybe nerfing one full rotation of healing to 54 instead of 60, which would bring the scaling in line to have to have both tier jumps be +12 hp per combo and on top of it reduce its damage output by just a few points per combo, maybe 4 at red and 2 at yellow or something small like that. Alternatively it could be skewed more heavily into a defensive melee option by boosting the healing but significantly nerfing the damage. Potentially making for more interesting party compositions where one person could be using paladins + lifebringer as the main tank in a sense.
Paladin’s:
I think paladin’s might is only decent at red right now. But the active is easy to play around. The only times I wish I had a red paladin’s is when I jump onto a potion launcher user, but there are other ways to deal with them and wasting a slot on paladin’s seems not worth it. The damage reduction at red is really good, but it’s not better than a red lifebringer. Red lifebringer lets you win any 1v1 while red paladin’s lets you lose slower so you have to rely on your team to follow up while you soak damage and if the enemy is smart they will just change targets. Currently it shares the worst TTK with the stillblade. Its damage is also very rear loaded which make it unreliable on top of lacking in pure numbers. I’d try to accentuate its defensive ability a bit more. Up the duration on all rarities by 1 second and increase the % mitigation on the lower tiers. Something like 50/55/60 instead of the current spread. Flattening out the damage on different hits would also be beneficial.
Silencer:
I think that combat is just too fast paced and littered with jumping and running for a slow heavy hitter to be useful. Maybe if it had REALLY good numbers on connecting hits then party compositions with CC abilities + silencer could work, but currently the damage can’t compete with weapons with a damage active and it’s utility can’t compete with any other utility ability, on top of it it’s practically impossible to land all of your hits. The active is lackluster because it lasts a very short time, if you apply it on somebody they can simply disengage with 3 dashes and you can’t follow because you spent at least 1 jump worth of stamina on the Q application hit, the enemy player you silenced is unlikely to be damaged mid dashes so you really achieve very little by applying your active in almost any situation. If not straight up buffing damage numbers then the active needs to either be longer or it needs to do something extra. Maybe locking the target out of using mana would be decent. It would make for a great counter against potion launchers and grimoires. If the enemy can’t reload for maybe 10 seconds. It would force them switch to melee and fight or switch melee and kite and use another ranged weapon. So it leaves options to the enemy player while being considerably stronger than it is currently.
Spiritpierce:
In theory it should be the strongest 1v1 weapon, but I think the damage spread on the hits as well as how long the 3d hit needs to wind up makes it too easy to dodge and too hard to hit with. I wish its full combo was different, something like 2 quick stabs in the beginning and just get rid of the little ballerina spin. Or cut the numbers of spins to speed up the animation. It does decent stamina drain, so I can’t even recommend buffing that aspect of the weapon. And it has comparable damage to other utility weapons. Or again, adjust the damage spread on hits, the 3d hit is too big for how hard it is to land, people can simply turn around and run away from it. And if you are carrying another primary damage melee weapon and spirit pierce is your utility melee then I’d rather have an archemage or a bonesmasher or a stillblade, and that’s not even including the ranged weapons I’d rather have for their q.
Stillblade:
I think stillblade is extremely underappreciated in squad play right now. It does work in a game where running and dashing is a big part of combat. And even in solos I think something like a stillblade + wand + icy steps (or blink) can make an interesting loadout.
Thundering Mace:
By the numbers, in a smash left click 1v1 thundering mace has the best TTK of any melee, unfortunately for it that is rarely ever how combat works. Its damage is rear loaded with the first 2 hits doing the least damage. I think it could be viable if the first 2 hits did something like 20 and 20 at red. I also have no idea why the Q doesn’t scale with rarity. Although something more interesting could also be done with the weapon – maybe make the Q leave like a force field around the enemy player that will zap others if they get too close? And lets say it lasts like 15 seconds. It would force enemies to spread out and make for an interesting and unique interaction. Though that's extra dev time instead of just quickly fiddling with the numbers. Alternatively, like the bonesmasher suggestion - it could be made to apply on a per target basis. So lets say I apply it on player A, he takes 13 damage + whoever is in range takes the bounce, but I could then also turn around and hit player B who would also take 13 damage and another bounce would proc. So it would truly shine in a dog pile, but be mediocre in 1v1.
Was a fun 2 weeks grinding to 50. So to celebrate I'm making this feedback thread.
Opinion post, biased, blah blah blah, you get the picture.
Archemage:
I really like where archemage is in the meta rn, it’s has good animations – a quick 1-2 combo with decent arcs and damage as well as a full combo that isn’t hard to land when someone stays melee while also giving the enemy plenty of space to play around the spin at the end because it’s still directional and almost stationary. Archemage stacking is a thing but it doesn’t seem to be overwhelmingly prevalent as it once was. And having stacking builds is probably good to have for a healthy variety of builds. It probably doesn’t feel as overwhelmingly powerful because other items' actives can compete fairly well and that with air dashing it’s possible to disengage fights that during previous metas you wouldn’t be able to disengage. I like that it’s a decent utility pick up even at blue rarity.
Bonesmasher:
Red bonesmasher needs a severe nerf to the ability. And that’s not even considering the tick bug that is currently present. Red bonesmasher’s active seems way too strong number wise compared to other damage actives. Red thundering mace Q is 13 dmg, archemage is 20+knockback, bonesmasher is 24 for 1 hit, but you can reapply it by the end of the duration to get almost double the value. Not only is getting 40 damage out of it not an issue most of the time, in squads you can apply it to multiple enemy targets. I think that either the ability damage should be significantly lowered considering multiple applications (like 30-50%) or the ability should not be reappliable – either make it a one proc that is consumed on hit or make it a one hit per Q per enemy character (so you can apply it to multiple people but can’t reapply it on the same target).
Greatsword:
I think the greatsword is one of the worst weapons right now. Its TTK is the same or almost the same as the spiritpierce / lifebringer / bonesmasher (without Q) but with a severely lackluster active. It can’t compete in damage with the damage weapons so it competes for utility with lifebringer, spirit pierce, archemage and silencer. And it wins out at most only against the silencer, but I’d never pick up either really. I think it the utility aspects needs a boost. Either make the buff last longer, or increase the movement speed. Another potential buff would be to frontload some more combo damage on the first 2 attacks. So it would be feasible to 1-2 punch then kite then 1-2 punch with a bit more success than is possible currently. Maybe make the hits something like 22 and 28 for a total of 50 instead of the current 43 (at red).
Lifebringer:
In my opinion the strongest melee weapon in the game at red rarity. The healing jump from yellow to red is absurd (2x of the blue.) In a head to head 1v1 battle it doesn't lose to any other melee weapon. It can let you 2v1 and sometimes 3v1 during late game if several people are melee range and didn't burst you before your spin comes in. But that 3v1 potential isn't inherently an issue since the enemy players have room to play around it by either blocking or kiting. But I think my biggest issue is how easy it is to use on top of how strong it is. All of lifebringer's animations are really easy to land as they have wide arcs and the 3 spin attacks are 360 degrees. Its TTK is the same as the spirit pierce / greatsword while having a VASTLY superior active and better animations.
In my opinion it's a heavy candidate for nerfs, at the very least at red. Maybe nerfing one full rotation of healing to 54 instead of 60, which would bring the scaling in line to have to have both tier jumps be +12 hp per combo and on top of it reduce its damage output by just a few points per combo, maybe 4 at red and 2 at yellow or something small like that. Alternatively it could be skewed more heavily into a defensive melee option by boosting the healing but significantly nerfing the damage. Potentially making for more interesting party compositions where one person could be using paladins + lifebringer as the main tank in a sense.
Paladin’s:
I think paladin’s might is only decent at red right now. But the active is easy to play around. The only times I wish I had a red paladin’s is when I jump onto a potion launcher user, but there are other ways to deal with them and wasting a slot on paladin’s seems not worth it. The damage reduction at red is really good, but it’s not better than a red lifebringer. Red lifebringer lets you win any 1v1 while red paladin’s lets you lose slower so you have to rely on your team to follow up while you soak damage and if the enemy is smart they will just change targets. Currently it shares the worst TTK with the stillblade. Its damage is also very rear loaded which make it unreliable on top of lacking in pure numbers. I’d try to accentuate its defensive ability a bit more. Up the duration on all rarities by 1 second and increase the % mitigation on the lower tiers. Something like 50/55/60 instead of the current spread. Flattening out the damage on different hits would also be beneficial.
Silencer:
I think that combat is just too fast paced and littered with jumping and running for a slow heavy hitter to be useful. Maybe if it had REALLY good numbers on connecting hits then party compositions with CC abilities + silencer could work, but currently the damage can’t compete with weapons with a damage active and it’s utility can’t compete with any other utility ability, on top of it it’s practically impossible to land all of your hits. The active is lackluster because it lasts a very short time, if you apply it on somebody they can simply disengage with 3 dashes and you can’t follow because you spent at least 1 jump worth of stamina on the Q application hit, the enemy player you silenced is unlikely to be damaged mid dashes so you really achieve very little by applying your active in almost any situation. If not straight up buffing damage numbers then the active needs to either be longer or it needs to do something extra. Maybe locking the target out of using mana would be decent. It would make for a great counter against potion launchers and grimoires. If the enemy can’t reload for maybe 10 seconds. It would force them switch to melee and fight or switch melee and kite and use another ranged weapon. So it leaves options to the enemy player while being considerably stronger than it is currently.
Spiritpierce:
In theory it should be the strongest 1v1 weapon, but I think the damage spread on the hits as well as how long the 3d hit needs to wind up makes it too easy to dodge and too hard to hit with. I wish its full combo was different, something like 2 quick stabs in the beginning and just get rid of the little ballerina spin. Or cut the numbers of spins to speed up the animation. It does decent stamina drain, so I can’t even recommend buffing that aspect of the weapon. And it has comparable damage to other utility weapons. Or again, adjust the damage spread on hits, the 3d hit is too big for how hard it is to land, people can simply turn around and run away from it. And if you are carrying another primary damage melee weapon and spirit pierce is your utility melee then I’d rather have an archemage or a bonesmasher or a stillblade, and that’s not even including the ranged weapons I’d rather have for their q.
Stillblade:
I think stillblade is extremely underappreciated in squad play right now. It does work in a game where running and dashing is a big part of combat. And even in solos I think something like a stillblade + wand + icy steps (or blink) can make an interesting loadout.
Thundering Mace:
By the numbers, in a smash left click 1v1 thundering mace has the best TTK of any melee, unfortunately for it that is rarely ever how combat works. Its damage is rear loaded with the first 2 hits doing the least damage. I think it could be viable if the first 2 hits did something like 20 and 20 at red. I also have no idea why the Q doesn’t scale with rarity. Although something more interesting could also be done with the weapon – maybe make the Q leave like a force field around the enemy player that will zap others if they get too close? And lets say it lasts like 15 seconds. It would force enemies to spread out and make for an interesting and unique interaction. Though that's extra dev time instead of just quickly fiddling with the numbers. Alternatively, like the bonesmasher suggestion - it could be made to apply on a per target basis. So lets say I apply it on player A, he takes 13 damage + whoever is in range takes the bounce, but I could then also turn around and hit player B who would also take 13 damage and another bounce would proc. So it would truly shine in a dog pile, but be mediocre in 1v1.
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