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Steven, please watch this video.

MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
edited October 2019 in General Discussion
The information in this video is from 30-50 million players over a span of 16 years. Atleast "listening" to this is invaluable. WoW is the most succesful game of all time and learning from it's succes and failiuers can save game designers a lot of time. Weather you like wow or not, atleast listening to 30+ million people and 16 years of experience is worth 40 minutes of your time.

World of warcraft and what we left behind
Made by: Folding ideas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RxQRswLAmI

Comments

  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The IS team has many years of development collectively. Many of them have played and even worked on successful games in the past. I doubt any of them need help in making a great product.

    As I have never played WoW my opinion is mostly unbiased concerning anything to do with it. Also, the video was way too long, could you perhaps sum it up for us here.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Steven, please don’t waste your time watching a random 40 minute long video to try to divine whatever the OP is trying to say here. Just keep running your studio and making an MMO. Thank you, I hope you’re having a good day.
     
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  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Is this an attempt to up viewer counts?
    57597603_387667588743769_477625458809110528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=16e82247154b84484b7f627c0ac76fca&oe=5D448BDD
    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »
    lifehack
    Why would we want to play a game made by someone that thinks this word is in any way appropriate to apply to game design?

    The only people that should ever use the above word are people that make shit videos where it is a feature word in the title.

    I really don't understand people that think they can link a YouTube video to someone that is a professional on the subject matter and think they could learn something.

    Professional level knowledge doesn't fit in to a 40 minute video, regardless of the topic.

    Actual MMO developers could talk for longer than 40 minutes on the design of a single combat ability. Get you're amateur shit out of here.

  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Makinoji wrote: »
    The IS team has many years of development collectively. Many of them have played and even worked on successful games in the past. I doubt any of them need help in making a great product.

    As I have never played WoW my opinion is mostly unbiased concerning anything to do with it. Also, the video was way too long, could you perhaps sum it up for us here.

    A few design choices that IS is currently planning were horrible choices in the long run for this MMO. For this reason it is relevant that these "experienced" devolopers look into it.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    noaani wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    lifehack
    Why would we want to play a game made by someone that thinks this word is in any way appropriate to apply to game design?

    The only people that should ever use the above word are people that make shit videos where it is a feature word in the title.

    I really don't understand people that think they can link a YouTube video to someone that is a professional on the subject matter and think they could learn something.

    Professional level knowledge doesn't fit in to a 40 minute video, regardless of the topic.

    Actual MMO developers could talk for longer than 40 minutes on the design of a single combat ability. Get you're amateur shit out of here.

    Steven is not a professional, he is a casual gamer like all of us. Tons of choices that IS is currently planning were horrible for all mmos ever created. For this reason it could be nice to actually see what 12 million MMO players have thaught developers over 10+ years.

    It is extremly naive and stupid to ignore what can be learned from the most succesful game of all time.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Atama wrote: »
    Steven, please don’t waste your time watching a random 40 minute long video to try to divine whatever the OP is trying to say here. Just keep running your studio and making an MMO. Thank you, I hope you’re having a good day.

    Lord of ignorance much? 12+ years of 30 million MMO players experience is simply not worth looking at?
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Horrible choices for whom?

    You?

    Me?

    Albanian Sheep Herders?
    Aq0KG2f.png
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    You have more courage(?) than me in an alt account.

    At least you should have gathered time stamps for the very important parts, to increase the chance that your message will be heard.

    Intrepid have more experience at game design than all of you people, talking to them about what popular MMOs have is the worst thing you could do, waste of time.
    In my case, I REALLY want them to check Dragon Nest's combat and Asda Story's mating system. See, I'm not even asking them to look into the whole game. How could you be this shameless in your real account.

    Almost nobody in the intrepid team has had as much succes as a random wow vanilla/burning crusade employee. Steven in general has 0 experience in game making.

    This video summarizes 30-50 million players thoughts over 12 years of time. If that is not worth 40 minutes for a game designer that game designer will fail.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Karthos wrote: »
    Horrible choices for whom?

    You?

    Me?

    Albanian Sheep Herders?

    A few design choices IS is currently planning were trap holes that wow already tried. They worked horribly and there is no reason to do them again.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Lord of ignorance much?
    Yes, I will readily admit to being fully ignorant of the point you’re trying to make in this thread. Unless it’s simply “Copy Blizzard” in which case I wish you well as you depart these forums and bask in the glory of old school World of Warcraft. And we bask in your absence.
     
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  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Yeah the forums are a land that mods forgot
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2019
    Never played WoW and don't desire to play it EVER. Their designs and the overall theme isn't appealing to me and I was alive when it launched way back when. The only thing I can say about WoW is that it was a success, for its time. The genre has evolved since then and whatever "lessons" there were to learn have been dissected over and over again and still not one company can match their luck.

    Instead of reverting, I would like to see innovation and original ideas prosper. However, due to the constraint of this "WoW Nostalgia" gamer, many studios give in and just copy aspects of WoW and fail because they compromised their own vision.

    I don't develop games so I am just an outsider looking in. To each their own.
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Makinoji wrote: »
    Instead of reverting, I would like to see innovation and original ideas prosper.

    Agreed.

    "Innovation" can only bring you so far. Many games put their spin on MMORPGs and many failed with those innovagive ideas. Sometimes, it is a step back that brings you further to your goal.
  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited October 2019
    Damokles wrote: »
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Makinoji wrote: »
    Instead of reverting, I would like to see innovation and original ideas prosper.

    Agreed.

    "Innovation" can only bring you so far. Many games put their spin on MMORPGs and many failed with those innovative ideas. Sometimes, it is a step back that brings you further to your goal.

    A step back is fine but not a leap, like the OP is suggesting.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nagash wrote: »
    Yeah the forums are a land that mods forgot

    Let's test that theory!!!

    Aq0KG2f.png
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Makinoji wrote: »
    Never played WoW and don't desire to play it EVER. Their designs and the overall theme isn't appealing to me and I was alive when it launched way back when. The only thing I can say about WoW is that it was a success, for its time. The genre has evolved since then and whatever "lessons" there were to learn have been dissected over and over again and still not one company can match their luck.

    Instead of reverting, I would like to see innovation and original ideas prosper. However, due to the constraint of this "WoW Nostalgia" gamer, many studios give in and just copy aspects of WoW and fail because they compromised their own vision.

    I don't develop games so I am just an outsider looking in. To each their own.

    I am not a nolstalgia player, tbh I am not into wow. But one thing that we can learn and that is interesting is that blizzard screwed many players by adding "too much" relevant content. Only way you could progress in the game was to spam this forced content and every single player felt stressed and forced to do what the devs wanted you to do.

    This is something we can learn about. If I want to log in an evening and just shit around with my friends I should be able to once in while without falling way behind
  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    But there are the players that will be your friends, your guild mates, and citizens of your node that will always relentlessly grind content. So unless you do the same, you will always be behind.

    I would prefer more content, especially meaningful content, over the lack of content.
    I have to say, I am not sure what the reference to "...'too much' relevant content." meant.

    How would a game with a large variety of players, of all types, playing around the clock suffer from too much relevant content?

    Dailies, yeah get rid of those. Are you referencing dailies?
    57597603_387667588743769_477625458809110528_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=16e82247154b84484b7f627c0ac76fca&oe=5D448BDD
    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    lifehack
    Why would we want to play a game made by someone that thinks this word is in any way appropriate to apply to game design?

    The only people that should ever use the above word are people that make shit videos where it is a feature word in the title.

    I really don't understand people that think they can link a YouTube video to someone that is a professional on the subject matter and think they could learn something.

    Professional level knowledge doesn't fit in to a 40 minute video, regardless of the topic.

    Actual MMO developers could talk for longer than 40 minutes on the design of a single combat ability. Get you're amateur shit out of here.

    Steven is not a professional, he is a casual gamer like all of us. Tons of choices that IS is currently planning were horrible for all mmos ever created. For this reason it could be nice to actually see what 12 million MMO players have thaught developers over 10+ years.

    It is extremly naive and stupid to ignore what can be learned from the most succesful game of all time.
    He has spent the last three or four years running a game development studio in a very hands on manner developing an MMORPG, in an environment with some of the most experienced people in the field working for him, and no doubt advising him when need be.

    No one with less experience than that has any pace telling him anything at all about MMO development, and it is only either arrogance or ignorance that would see someone even try.

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