Siege Declaration Items

I think that items/resources that are used to declare a siege should either have an expiration date or some other way as to not allow players to hoard and stock pile them. This is important so that a group can't declare war back to back to back on all neighboring nodes or maybe even declare war on many nodes at the same time. I think it would make more sense if the attacker had to more intentionally prepare for each siege rather than mass farming and stock piling for future sieges. Would this inhibit the sandbox too much, or does it seem like a reasonable idea? What are your thoughts on this topic?

P.S. I am aware that a node receives a defensive cooldown which will not allow for it to be attacked again for a period of time after it was just attacked.

Comments

  • Its a good attempt, but it would also ruin crafting classes like the siege engine crafters.

    Here is some information that we got a while ago:
    - certain siege mechanics are locked to group sizes
    - there siege summons (like a siege golem), which require multiple summoners to work together
    - there are multiple stages in a siege battle

    Another thing:
    I think that siege weapons will be expensive as fuck. A guild will need some time to prepare their siege equipment, and when you use it once, its gone. (Thats what i think at least)
    It is also not clear how rare the recepies for siege equipment will be, not all recepies can be simply bought from npcs after all. ;)
    KkvMmA5.png
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    Damokles wrote: »
    Its a good attempt, but it would also ruin crafting classes like the siege engine crafters.

    Here is some information that we got a while ago:
    - certain siege mechanics are locked to group sizes
    - there siege summons (like a siege golem), which require multiple summoners to work together
    - there are multiple stages in a siege battle

    Another thing:
    I think that siege weapons will be expensive as fuck. A guild will need some time to prepare their siege equipment, and when you use it once, its gone. (Thats what i think at least)
    It is also not clear how rare the recepies for siege equipment will be, not all recepies can be simply bought from npcs after all. ;)

    I'm not talking about siege equipment. I'm talking about siege declaration items. Intrepid has said that in order to declare an attack on a node you first need some turn in stuff. That could mean resources, crafted items, rare drops, quests etc. They haven't explained exactly what will be required of people to declare a siege, but they said it's supposed to be increasingly difficult to acquire those prerequisites depending on the level of the node you are trying to attack.

    So again, I'm not referring to siege equipment or summons.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    edited December 3
    vmangman wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Its a good attempt, but it would also ruin crafting classes like the siege engine crafters.

    Here is some information that we got a while ago:
    - certain siege mechanics are locked to group sizes
    - there siege summons (like a siege golem), which require multiple summoners to work together
    - there are multiple stages in a siege battle

    Another thing:
    I think that siege weapons will be expensive as fuck. A guild will need some time to prepare their siege equipment, and when you use it once, its gone. (Thats what i think at least)
    It is also not clear how rare the recepies for siege equipment will be, not all recepies can be simply bought from npcs after all. ;)

    I'm not talking about siege equipment. I'm talking about siege declaration items. Intrepid has said that in order to declare an attack on a node you first need some turn in stuff. That could mean resources, crafted items, rare drops, quests etc. They haven't explained exactly what will be required of people to declare a siege, but they said it's supposed to be increasingly difficult to acquire those prerequisites depending on the level of the node you are trying to attack.

    So again, I'm not referring to siege equipment or summons.

    Ohhh okay.
    Well the item required to obtain declare the siege is obtained through a quest, with rising difficulty depending on the sieged node level.
    KkvMmA5.png
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    edited December 3
    Damokles wrote: »
    Ohhh okay.
    Well the item required to obtain declare the siege is obtained through a quest, with risiing difficulty depending on the sieged node level.

    I understand. We don't know that it's going to be just one quest item. Even if it were, my original post's suggestion and question still stands.

    Edit: word
  • noaaninoaani Member
    edited December 3
    I'm not sure why any such limitation would be required.

    Sieges are expensive - very expensive. If any one group of players is able to declare multiple sieges and actually has the resources to not be a laughable mess at them, I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to declare multiple sieges.

    On top of the timed restrictions placed on declaring sieges, don't forget there are also restrictions if you are a vassal node - and if you are spending resources on multiple sieges rather than leveling up your node, you are likely to be a vassal.
  • vmangman wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Ohhh okay.
    Well the item required to obtain declare the siege is obtained through a quest, with risiing difficulty depending on the sieged node level.

    I understand. We don't know that it's going to be just one quest item. Even if it were, my original post's suggestion and question still stands.

    Edit: word

    Yeah well... I think that these quest items that you get to declare a war are one time use only and pretty specific for each node. So it would not make much sense to just collect tons of them for months. Each of them represent tons of recources and the leading council of your node will want to regain those resources as fast as possible.
    KkvMmA5.png
  • I guess it'll all depend on what those other resources are. If they're regular, or higher level mats used in many other recipes, like ores, or wood etc. it shouldn't have a expiration. If it's things you find solely for the creation of the, let's call it Siege flag, i think you're right. After all, from a bunch of the segments we've heard, it seems they want each siege declaration and farm to be a dedicated effort at a specific target. Not "We need to have things to be able to siege" but instead "we need to gather to siege x" And since people are more than welcome to attack nodes without besieging and possibly destroying a node, perhaps to inhibit their growth just enough to put them in line to be a vassal, this seems more than fair.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    noaani wrote: »
    I'm not sure why any such limitation would be required.

    Sieges are expensive - very expensive. If any one group of players is able to declare multiple sieges and actually has the resources to not be a laughable mess at them, I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to declare multiple sieges.

    On top of the timed restrictions placed on declaring sieges, don't forget there are also restrictions if you are a vassal node - and if you are spending resources on multiple sieges rather than leveling up your node, you are likely to be a vassal.

    The issue isn't declaring multiple sieges in a natural progression. What i'm saying is that what if a group of people stockpiles siege declaration items for 6 months (arbitrary number meant to represent a very long time) they can then go on a rampage. This is especially problematic if one of the strongest nodes on the server does this. If for some reason people in an already strong node are able to stockpile these items/resources and they maintain their power it can make it very difficult for others to contest them due to all the possible sieges the powerful/stockpiling node can launch.

    I'm just saying that I can see how being able to stockpile siege declaration items can have bad repercussions. Maybe the game balances itself out through other systems that Intrepid would implement, but I think the stockpiling, if available, could be an issue long term.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    Damokles wrote: »
    vmangman wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Ohhh okay.
    Well the item required to obtain declare the siege is obtained through a quest, with risiing difficulty depending on the sieged node level.

    I understand. We don't know that it's going to be just one quest item. Even if it were, my original post's suggestion and question still stands.

    Edit: word

    Yeah well... I think that these quest items that you get to declare a war are one time use only and pretty specific for each node. So it would not make much sense to just collect tons of them for months. Each of them represent tons of recources and the leading council of your node will want to regain those resources as fast as possible.

    While those items are most definitely a one time use only, the issue can still remain if they can be stockpiled.

    And you're assuming that they are specific for each node... Intrepid did not confirm that.

    And yes, it could make sense stockpiling a lot of them if possible. Read the comment above (to Noaani) where I explained how a powerful node could abuse the ability to stockpile.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    Ventharien wrote: »
    I guess it'll all depend on what those other resources are. If they're regular, or higher level mats used in many other recipes, like ores, or wood etc. it shouldn't have a expiration. If it's things you find solely for the creation of the, let's call it Siege flag, i think you're right. After all, from a bunch of the segments we've heard, it seems they want each siege declaration and farm to be a dedicated effort at a specific target. Not "We need to have things to be able to siege" but instead "we need to gather to siege x" And since people are more than welcome to attack nodes without besieging and possibly destroying a node, perhaps to inhibit their growth just enough to put them in line to be a vassal, this seems more than fair.

    Yea, I'm referring to the latter option where these items are things "you find solely for the creation of the, let's call it Siege flag". Thanks for the input.
  • GimlogGimlog Member
    edited December 3
    For now we don't know what the quest will be or how hard it will really be .
    But what could prevents your worries, is the guild and alliances size.
    A guild will be 30-300 players
    Alliances are 4 guilds so 120 -1200 players
    Guild of 300 players want happened a lot because IS focus on preventing zerg. And guild of 300 will have no bonus at all.
    So holding a metropolis with less than 1200 will be hard or impossible and holding a alliances stable is hard to .
    I could add that if you stack those flag , you may never us it because the geopolitical variation will be permanent.

    Conclusion your worries could happen from what we know but are unlikely to be a issue.
  • vmangman wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    I'm not sure why any such limitation would be required.

    Sieges are expensive - very expensive. If any one group of players is able to declare multiple sieges and actually has the resources to not be a laughable mess at them, I see no reason why they shouldn't be able to declare multiple sieges.

    On top of the timed restrictions placed on declaring sieges, don't forget there are also restrictions if you are a vassal node - and if you are spending resources on multiple sieges rather than leveling up your node, you are likely to be a vassal.

    The issue isn't declaring multiple sieges in a natural progression. What i'm saying is that what if a group of people stockpiles siege declaration items for 6 months (arbitrary number meant to represent a very long time) they can then go on a rampage. This is especially problematic if one of the strongest nodes on the server does this. If for some reason people in an already strong node are able to stockpile these items/resources and they maintain their power it can make it very difficult for others to contest them due to all the possible sieges the powerful/stockpiling node can launch.

    I'm just saying that I can see how being able to stockpile siege declaration items can have bad repercussions. Maybe the game balances itself out through other systems that Intrepid would implement, but I think the stockpiling, if available, could be an issue long term.
    Stockpiling seems a little futile to me though. Like, I don't see what advantage it would have.

    So we know for a fact that different levels of node require different difficulties of quest in order to gain the item to siege.

    We also know that the cooldown for declaring a siege is 20/30/40/50 days. So the quest for the siege that can be declared very 20 days is somewhat easier, and the quest for the siege that takes 50 days is somewhat harder.

    However, I don't see Intrepid being able to design any quest that is so time consuming that the average well organized guild wouldn't be able keep an entire metropolis' ZoI under siege as soon as each cooldown has expired.

    To be clear, I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have a timer or similar on the item, I just don't see how it would have any practical effect in game, as well organized players and guilds will likely be able to acquire these items as fast as they are able to use them.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    Gimlog wrote: »
    They prevents it by the preparation period and the safe period after it

    The wiki actually does not address the issue I'm presenting. Here is all that the wiki says about siege declaration:

    "Node sieges are declared directly by any player who completes the prerequisites for the siege initiation. During the declaration period, individuals or guilds can also register to attack.
    Sieges are started via an item which is acquired through a quest that scales in difficulty with respect to the level of the Node which is being targeted for the siege. Once the item is brought to the Node and is activated, the declaration period begins and a countdown is initiated for players in the region to see. This countdown runs for a number of days equal to the level of the Node being sieged. Once the countdown is complete, the siege begins".

    It says nothing about stockpiling said quest items, or about stockpiling the items required for the quest's completion.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    noaani wrote: »
    So we know for a fact that different levels of node require different difficulties of quest in order to gain the item to siege.

    We also know that the cooldown for declaring a siege is 20/30/40/50 days. So the quest for the siege that can be declared very 20 days is somewhat easier, and the quest for the siege that takes 50 days is somewhat harder.

    However, I don't see Intrepid being able to design any quest that is so time consuming that the average well organized guild wouldn't be able keep an entire metropolis' ZoI under siege as soon as each cooldown has expired.

    To be clear, I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have a timer or similar on the item, I just don't see how it would have any practical effect in game, as well organized players and guilds will likely be able to acquire these items as fast as they are able to use them.

    I see what you're saying. However, the quest for a node siege of a metropolis (50 day cooldown) could be 60 days long (or longer). We don't know how long it takes. Intrepid has said that they want the siege preparation to be basically just as extensive as building up a node. So if it takes a group 2 months to build a node up to a metropolis level, it could possibly take just as long to complete the quest for siege declaration. However, even if it takes half the time it took to build up the node it would still be a significant amount of time.

    You say that: "I don't see Intrepid being able to design any quest that is so time consuming that the average well organized guild wouldn't be able keep an entire metropolis' ZoI under siege as soon as each cooldown has expired" and "as well organized players and guilds will likely be able to acquire these items as fast as they are able to use them". However, I feel like Intrepid has addressed this exact issue by saying that completing a siege declaration quest should take about as long as building up that node. And they have said that to get a node to Metropolis level would take months (which is most likely longer than the 50 day coldown period). They equated siege declaration prep time to node building time not to node siege cooldown time after an attack.

    Now, if during a time of peace this one very powerful node's citizens are able to complete the quest multiple times over and stockpile the declaration item, they could essentially stomp any one who dares rise up against them and do it across a massive scale by attacking a multitude of nodes within a very short period of time. If instead of stockpiling the item, they just had to complete the quest as they plan to attack a node, it would keep them in check from wrecking havoc across a much bigger area of the world or potentially the whole world at once.

    I feel that the stockpiling could keep the top node(s) at the top for longer. Like I said, maybe the game balances itself out through other systems that Intrepid has not revealed yet, but the stockpile can still be detrimental.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    edited December 3
    vmangman wrote: »
    They equated siege declaration prep time to node building time not to node siege cooldown time after an attack.
    My understanding is that they equate a successful siege (or a siege with a chance at being successful) with leveling up a node in terms of resources and time required, as opposed to just declaring a siege.

    To me, this cost includes siege engines, consumables and other incidental things - and my assumption is that this is where the bulk of the expense will be found.

    Since it would seem that the type of siege engines you can use are dependent on the level of the node you are attacking, I would assume that siege equipment is crafted specifically for each siege.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    noaani wrote: »
    vmangman wrote: »
    They equated siege declaration prep time to node building time not to node siege cooldown time after an attack.
    My understanding is that they equate a successful siege (or a siege with a chance at being successful) with leveling up a node in terms of resources and time required, as opposed to just declaring a siege.

    To me, this cost includes siege engines, consumables and other incidental things - and my assumption is that this is where the bulk of the expense will be found.

    Since it would seem that the type of siege engines you can use are dependent on the level of the node you are attacking, I would assume that siege equipment is crafted specifically for each siege.

    Maybe you’re right and they equate the required investment to the building of a node to the required investment of successfully sieging a node and not the preparation for the siege declaration.

    In that case I think it would be even more important to put an expiration timer on the siege declaration item (make it so they can’t be stockpiled). Because the resources required for a successful siege (siege weapons and/or gather-able and craft-able items) will definitely be available for stockpiling. Which brings us to my previous point that a top node could heavily abuse this system and stay at the top longer than intended.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    edited December 3
    vmangman wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    vmangman wrote: »
    They equated siege declaration prep time to node building time not to node siege cooldown time after an attack.
    My understanding is that they equate a successful siege (or a siege with a chance at being successful) with leveling up a node in terms of resources and time required, as opposed to just declaring a siege.

    To me, this cost includes siege engines, consumables and other incidental things - and my assumption is that this is where the bulk of the expense will be found.

    Since it would seem that the type of siege engines you can use are dependent on the level of the node you are attacking, I would assume that siege equipment is crafted specifically for each siege.

    Maybe you’re right and they equate the required investment to the building of a node to the required investment of successfully sieging a node and not the preparation for the siege declaration.

    In that case I think it would be even more important to put an expiration timer on the siege declaration item (make it so they can’t be stockpiled). Because the resources required for a successful siege (siege weapons and/or gather-able and craft-able items) will definitely be available for stockpiling. Which brings us to my previous point that a top node could heavily abuse this system and stay at the top longer than intended.
    I'm still not really sure how there could be any advantage to this.

    Stockpiling those kind of resources is such a massive undertaking for so many people that the metropolis wouldn't be able to keep it quiet. Also, once you start talking about sieging a metropolis node, you are talking about 20% of the servers population being involved in preparation - and having to pay tax to support it.

    If you are a leader of a metropolis and you don't have a espionage network (or at least surveillance network) active in every other metropolis, you probably shouldn't be in that position. And this is before all the people from that metropolis coming to your node looking for somewhere with lower taxes.

    If you manage to miss how an entire 20% of the game world has massive forests that they are cutting down (as an example) yet the price of logs is high, you probably shouldn't be in in-game politics at all.

    On the other hand, if you do notice that they are up to something, what you do is you siege them. If you win, their preparations are potentially taken back to zero.

    To me, this kind of thing isn't abusing the system, it is using the system.

    Edit to add: I don't see this being an issue at all below metropolis level. If you are not a metropolis, you are either using every resource to try and be one, or are a vassal of a larger node. If you are a vassal node, you'd need an alliance of other nodes to be even remotely irritating to other nodes - in which case you are probably allied with a metropolis.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    noaani wrote: »
    I'm still not really sure how there could be any advantage to this.

    Stockpiling those kind of resources is such a massive undertaking for so many people that the metropolis wouldn't be able to keep it quiet. Also, once you start talking about sieging a metropolis node, you are talking about 20% of the servers population being involved in preparation - and having to pay tax to support it.

    If you are a leader of a metropolis and you don't have a espionage network (or at least surveillance network) active in every other metropolis, you probably shouldn't be in that position. And this is before all the people from that metropolis coming to your node looking for somewhere with lower taxes.

    If you manage to miss how an entire 20% of the game world has massive forests that they are cutting down (as an example) yet the price of logs is high, you probably shouldn't be in in-game politics at all.

    On the other hand, if you do notice that they are up to something, what you do is you siege them. If you win, their preparations are potentially taken back to zero.

    To me, this kind of thing isn't abusing the system, it is using the system.

    That’s a lot of guessing and speculation on how things would work.

    But even so... you basically proved my point when you said: “On the other hand, if you do notice that they are up to something, what you do is you siege them. If you win, their preparations are potentially taken back to zero”. If you are able to declare a siege on other nodes on a dime right when you find out they are preparing to siege you, the stockpiling method is even more powerful.
    By that design logic the moment you find out someone is preparing to siege you, you can then use your stockpiled quest items and resources to declare a siege on them and attack within 5 days at most (metropolis level). If the system didn’t allow for siege declaration items to be stockpiled (by having an expiration date for example) you would have to start the process of the siege declaration quest when you find out about their attack. This would then in turn delay your attack (as opposed to declaring right away with stockpiled quest items) and thus making the playing field more even. Creating a race instead of allowing the top dog to thwart any potential aggressor with their ready to siege stockpile.
  • vmangman wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »
    I'm still not really sure how there could be any advantage to this.

    Stockpiling those kind of resources is such a massive undertaking for so many people that the metropolis wouldn't be able to keep it quiet. Also, once you start talking about sieging a metropolis node, you are talking about 20% of the servers population being involved in preparation - and having to pay tax to support it.

    If you are a leader of a metropolis and you don't have a espionage network (or at least surveillance network) active in every other metropolis, you probably shouldn't be in that position. And this is before all the people from that metropolis coming to your node looking for somewhere with lower taxes.

    If you manage to miss how an entire 20% of the game world has massive forests that they are cutting down (as an example) yet the price of logs is high, you probably shouldn't be in in-game politics at all.

    On the other hand, if you do notice that they are up to something, what you do is you siege them. If you win, their preparations are potentially taken back to zero.

    To me, this kind of thing isn't abusing the system, it is using the system.

    That’s a lot of guessing and speculation on how things would work.

    But even so... you basically proved my point when you said: “On the other hand, if you do notice that they are up to something, what you do is you siege them. If you win, their preparations are potentially taken back to zero”. If you are able to declare a siege on other nodes on a dime right when you find out they are preparing to siege you, the stockpiling method is even more powerful.
    By that design logic the moment you find out someone is preparing to siege you, you can then use your stockpiled quest items and resources to declare a siege on them and attack within 5 days at most (metropolis level). If the system didn’t allow for siege declaration items to be stockpiled (by having an expiration date for example) you would have to start the process of the siege declaration quest when you find out about their attack. This would then in turn delay your attack (as opposed to declaring right away with stockpiled quest items) and thus making the playing field more even. Creating a race instead of allowing the top dog to thwart any potential aggressor with their ready to siege stockpile.

    You are also guessing and speculating on the point of people being able to stockpile those items though...
    All we can do at this point is guess and speculate.
    It could be possible that sieged nodes will be able to just repurpose siege equipment to defend their node. A trebuchet can just as easily fire from behind a citywall after all.

    Sieging will require a similar amount of resources and time to what it took to develop the node being sieged.
    Siege equipment will need to be crafted based on the stage of the defending node.
    Mayors/governments allocate resources, taxes, and quests to help develop node defenses.
    Once a siege is declared there is a period of time before the siege will commence, determined by the size of the node


    You will require as many resources to siege a metropolis as it took to make that metro, those are tons of resources and any person will require multiple days to gather those.
    KkvMmA5.png
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    Damokles wrote: »
    vmangman wrote: »
    That’s a lot of guessing and speculation on how things would work.

    But even so... you basically proved my point when you said: “On the other hand, if you do notice that they are up to something, what you do is you siege them. If you win, their preparations are potentially taken back to zero”. If you are able to declare a siege on other nodes on a dime right when you find out they are preparing to siege you, the stockpiling method is even more powerful.
    By that design logic the moment you find out someone is preparing to siege you, you can then use your stockpiled quest items and resources to declare a siege on them and attack within 5 days at most (metropolis level). If the system didn’t allow for siege declaration items to be stockpiled (by having an expiration date for example) you would have to start the process of the siege declaration quest when you find out about their attack. This would then in turn delay your attack (as opposed to declaring right away with stockpiled quest items) and thus making the playing field more even. Creating a race instead of allowing the top dog to thwart any potential aggressor with their ready to siege stockpile.

    You are also guessing and speculating on the point of people being able to stockpile those items though...
    All we can do at this point is guess and speculate.
    It could be possible that sieged nodes will be able to just repurpose siege equipment to defend their node. A trebuchet can just as easily fire from behind a citywall after all.

    Sieging will require a similar amount of resources and time to what it took to develop the node being sieged.
    Siege equipment will need to be crafted based on the stage of the defending node.
    Mayors/governments allocate resources, taxes, and quests to help develop node defenses.
    Once a siege is declared there is a period of time before the siege will commence, determined by the size of the node


    You will require as many resources to siege a metropolis as it took to make that metro, those are tons of resources and any person will require multiple days to gather those.

    Are you even reading my posts before you answer?

    Noaani was speculating that a Metropolis wouldn’t be able to keep their siege preparation a secret, that 20% of the servers population would be involved in the siege preparation and that siege preparations would be so impactful on the world economy to notice that price changes. Those are speculations about reactions/results to a system.

    However, my concern of people stockpiling the siege declaration item is not the same thing as a speculation about a reaction/result to a systems. My “speculation” (I would rather call it concern) is directly the system at hand. I’m bringing forward a game design principle that could have great repercussions. If anything you could call me out that those repercussions are mere speculation, which they are, but still read my previous post and explain to me how this isn’t a valid concern to a system that allows players to stockpile siege declaration items:

    “If you are able to declare a siege on other nodes on a dime right when you find out they are preparing to siege you, the stockpiling method is even more powerful.
    By that design logic the moment you find out someone is preparing to siege you, you can then use your stockpiled quest items and resources to declare a siege on them and attack within 5 days at most (metropolis level). If the system didn’t allow for siege declaration items to be stockpiled (by having an expiration date for example) you would have to start the process of the siege declaration quest when you find out about their attack. This would then in turn delay your attack (as opposed to declaring right away with stockpiled quest items) and thus making the playing field more even. Creating a race instead of allowing the top dog to thwart any potential aggressor with their ready to siege stockpile”.
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds
    Just speculation but one way to limit the siege declaration item is to simply put a timer on it. Yes you need all of these resources that you can stockpile but it takes days weeks or months to create the declaration item and once you have it then you can declare a siege. To stop people from stockpiling such items you can only have one such item stored at any one time. Once it is used you can then start the process again to create another one but again this could take days weeks or months. Remember this item/thing has to be created thus the time and we have no idea what type of highly skilled gathers/processors/crafters may also be needed in the process.

    Another thought is perhaps while you are preparing the siege declaration item all other work in the node grinds to a halt as all effort goes to creating the item.
    3KAqRIf.png
    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • vmangmanvmangman Member, Founder
    Varkun wrote: »
    Just speculation but one way to limit the siege declaration item is to simply put a timer on it. Yes you need all of these resources that you can stockpile but it takes days weeks or months to create the declaration item and once you have it then you can declare a siege. To stop people from stockpiling such items you can only have one such item stored at any one time. Once it is used you can then start the process again to create another one but again this could take days weeks or months. Remember this item/thing has to be created thus the time and we have no idea what type of highly skilled gathers/processors/crafters may also be needed in the process.

    Another thought is perhaps while you are preparing the siege declaration item all other work in the node grinds to a halt as all effort goes to creating the item.

    That’s what I’m saying. I think there should be some kind of limitation on it and I was curious if others see the same issue.
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds
    I know that is what you are saying just my thoughts on how to stop the problem you proposed from happening. I do agree it could be a problem but then having to fight multiple sieges throughout a zoi could make for interesting times.

    Even with a timer placed on the building of declaration items what is to stop other settlements who are under a metropolis ZOI from being fed resources to create a siege declaration item on behalf of the metropolis and then go declare a siege on behalf of the metropolis and be backed up when the siege happens.

    But then I think this is part of the idea with the whole political side of the game and the intrigue that would ensue.
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  • noaaninoaani Member
    edited December 4
    To be clear, I am still not saying a timer or some such on the actual quest item used to declare a siege wouldn't be a bad idea (I don't think it would be necessary, but that doesn't make it a bad idea).

    What I am saying is that I don't see that item as being the barrier to a successful siege. To me, the declaration item is little more than a token that needs to be in the game so players need to put some effort in so that sieges are not just declared haphazardly. This is speculation, but it is the same level of speculation as anything else in this thread.

    I'm also not saying that I think a node stockpiling resources for "A" siege would be noticed - but stockpiling for many would be. If absolutely nothing else - the other meteopolis' on the server would be asking themselves why the fifth one hasn't sieged anyone in months.

    The other thing is that this whole idea of stockpiling essentially requires everyone to do it instead of attacking when they are able. Most metropolis' will siege another meteopolis every few months - and if you are deciding which metropolis to attack, the one that hasn't been sieged or declared a siege in months would likely be your target.

    The game will also assist in this, apparantly, with rewards for successfully sieging a node going up the longer the node remains un-sieged.

    As with most things in this game, we don't have enough information to know what will or will not happen, or to provide Intrepid with amy useful feedback.

    You have your opinions on how the siege system will work, and you see issues with it. I have my own opinion of how it will work, and it doesn't have those same issues. I'm fairly sure neither of us are 100% right in how it will end up.

    What we do know for sure is that Intrepid want sieges to happen, and want meteopolis' to fall. The game itself is based around this happening.

    Since we also have a time limit on how often a meteopolis can be sieged (55 days), it is probably fair to say that Intrepid want metropolis' to be sieged about that often.

    Since players are unable to siege a meteopolis more often than that, I still do don't see the issue.

    Basically, we can't under any circumstance siege any node more often than Intrepid want us to be able to.
  • noaani wrote: »

    What I am saying is that I don't see that item as being the barrier to a successful siege

    Most metropolis' will siege another meteopolis every few months

    I don't think the idea is that it will be THE barrier, but that it puts a hamper on problems that have arisen in other games with similar ideas (open world destructibility pvp.)

    And i don't think that will be the case. From what we've heard sieging a metropolis is going to be a monumental task (Artfully described as being etched into the servers memory). Not only will it take a signifigant amount of time to become a metro, the limit on 5, and the current design choice of a successful siege annihilating the node completely, I see sieges being aimed in succession at vassals in order to put pressure on and hopefully delevel a metro before directly assaulting it. Otherwise every expense would be issued in it's defense, and your win chance would be much more narrow. At least, that's how it's seemed to me from the info we have, and kind of how i'd prefer it to be. More campaign than single move.

  • Ventharien wrote: »
    noaani wrote: »

    What I am saying is that I don't see that item as being the barrier to a successful siege

    Most metropolis' will siege another meteopolis every few months

    I don't think the idea is that it will be THE barrier, but that it puts a hamper on problems that have arisen in other games with similar ideas (open world destructibility pvp.)

    And i don't think that will be the case. From what we've heard sieging a metropolis is going to be a monumental task (Artfully described as being etched into the servers memory). Not only will it take a signifigant amount of time to become a metro, the limit on 5, and the current design choice of a successful siege annihilating the node completely, I see sieges being aimed in succession at vassals in order to put pressure on and hopefully delevel a metro before directly assaulting it. Otherwise every expense would be issued in it's defense, and your win chance would be much more narrow. At least, that's how it's seemed to me from the info we have, and kind of how i'd prefer it to be. More campaign than single move.
    Successfully sieging a metropolis will be monumental.

    Not all sieges will be successful.

    I don't have any info at all on how attacking a vassal of a metropolis can directly delevel that metropolis.

    It can delevel the vassal, and that in itself has value - but deleveling the meteopolis?
  • @noaani in theory if you destroy enough vassals of the metropolis, you could affect the amount of xp that maintains it at metropolis stage and it may drop if the citizen fail in filling the deficit.
    This should be one of the best options to deleveling a metropolis when successfully siege it isn't a option.

    For the flags who may be stacked, I definitely can't find a scenario where it could happened.
    Content will be lock behind metropolis stage so by time the veterans of a server will seek this content and rise the 105 nodes at metropolis stage to experiment the contents of it. They may siege metropolis to rise a other be stacking won't be necessary for this goal.

    Maybe I'm not imaginative enough...
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