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I say it's time to get the alpha started......................

I understand they want to get it right, but come on guys lets get the alpha going. Even Star Citizen has a long-running Alpha, Hook up a small map area, and start in-game testing the MMO parts. I for one isn't a fan of PvP and would love to test the MMO areas of the game. So what is the hold-up?
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Comments

  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Star Citizen has been in development since 2011....

    If that's your benchmark, I dunno if I can respect this opinion.
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  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One
    What's the hold up?

    Well the fact you think you an just hook up a small map area and start testing the MMO parts means you don't understand game development.

    The entire BR map exists to test primarily action combat, server architecture/stability/deployment, assets, quests, etc.

    As Ashes of Creation is going to be centered around player driven decisions, and those decisions will be made via combat (Node Sieges, Castle Sieges, Node Wars, Caravan running, Dungeons, Raids, etc), the combat has to be better than alright.

    The "mmo parts" of the game, those are easy for the guys on the team. Quests, drops, loot, etc that all worked 2 years ago in Alpha 0. Their hold up now is getting the servers stable and getting the combat good.

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    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Lets look at the Star Citizen development timeline shall we?

    2012 - initial Kickstarter
    2013 - Hangar module
    2014 - Arena Commander + Racing
    2015 - PTU (a VERY messy ptu i might add, which was near unplayable) + ArcCorp instance
    Late 2015 - Crusader, not only the few missions we had before, but also its moons
    2016 - Grim Hex + Star Marine
    THE GREAT DRAUGHT FROM 2017 TO 2018
    2018 Star Citizen 3.0 and other updates

    It took them 1 year to make a hangar with a handfull of ships, with two more on top of that to make the PTU.

    Other development timelines:
    EverQuest - 3 years
    WORLD OF WARCRAFT - 4-5 years
    Star Wars:ToR - 5 years
    Guild Wars 2 - 5 years
    Elder Scrolls Online - 7 years
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  • Karthos wrote: »
    Star Citizen has been in development since 2011...

    If that's your benchmark, I dunno if I can respect this opinion.

    Just saying. I know it's not the best example, but at least they are testing in-game and not just talking about it.
  • Jahlon wrote: »
    What's the hold up?

    Well the fact you think you an just hook up a small map area and start testing the MMO parts means you don't understand game development.

    The entire BR map exists to test primarily action combat, server architecture/stability/deployment, assets, quests, etc.

    As Ashes of Creation is going to be centered around player driven decisions, and those decisions will be made via combat (Node Sieges, Castle Sieges, Node Wars, Caravan running, Dungeons, Raids, etc), the combat has to be better than alright.

    The "mmo parts" of the game, those are easy for the guys on the team. Quests, drops, loot, etc that all worked 2 years ago in Alpha 0. Their hold up now is getting the servers stable and getting the combat good.

    Mainly I am going back to the map they showed off a couple of years ago. The one used before all this arena PvP. I figure why can't we use that one now or has things go so far south, they can't use it anymore?
  • granthorgranthor Member
    edited December 2019
    Damokles wrote: »
    Lets look at the Star Citizen development timeline shall we?

    2012 - initial Kickstarter
    2013 - Hangar module
    2014 - Arena Commander + Racing
    2015 - PTU (a VERY messy ptu i might add, which was near unplayable) + ArcCorp instance
    Late 2015 - Crusader, not only the few missions we had before, but also its moons
    2016 - Grim Hex + Star Marine
    THE GREAT DRAUGHT FROM 2017 TO 2018
    2018 Star Citizen 3.0 and other updates

    It took them 1 year to make a hangar with a handfull of ships, with two more on top of that to make the PTU.

    Other development timelines:
    EverQuest - 3 years
    WORLD OF WARCRAFT - 4-5 years
    Star Wars:ToR - 5 years
    Guild Wars 2 - 5 years
    Elder Scrolls Online - 7 years

    And your just making my point as to why we should be seeing the alpha for AoC right now. I do recall saying alpha and not Beta.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    granthor wrote: »
    Damokles wrote: »
    Lets look at the Star Citizen development timeline shall we?

    2012 - initial Kickstarter
    2013 - Hangar module
    2014 - Arena Commander + Racing
    2015 - PTU (a VERY messy ptu i might add, which was near unplayable) + ArcCorp instance
    Late 2015 - Crusader, not only the few missions we had before, but also its moons
    2016 - Grim Hex + Star Marine
    THE GREAT DRAUGHT FROM 2017 TO 2018
    2018 Star Citizen 3.0 and other updates

    It took them 1 year to make a hangar with a handfull of ships, with two more on top of that to make the PTU.

    Other development timelines:
    EverQuest - 3 years
    WORLD OF WARCRAFT - 4-5 years
    Star Wars:ToR - 5 years
    Guild Wars 2 - 5 years
    Elder Scrolls Online - 7 years

    And your just making my point as to why we should be seeing the alpha for AoC right now. I don't recall saying alpha and not Beta.

    Modern games require around 5 years u til they are done. A Alpha isnormally reached in year 4 or early 5... AoC is currently 3 years in development.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Damokles wrote: »
    AoC is currently 3 years in development.
    I would argue this point - I'd say 2 at the most.

    From what I have been able to see, actual development didn't start until after the kickstarter.

    There was an element of pre-production (forming ideas, world building, planning etc) that went on back then, but that happens with every project prior to actual development.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    knowing my luck the alpha will only last a week ^^
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    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • WololoWololo Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    a1 ? nah i alrdy got what i backed for lel
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    granthor wrote: »
    I understand they want to get it right, but come on guys lets get the alpha going. Even Star Citizen has a long-running Alpha, Hook up a small map area, and start in-game testing the MMO parts. I for one isn't a fan of PvP and would love to test the MMO areas of the game. So what is the hold-up?

    Translation: "hurry up so that I can play this game, as I have nothing else better to do with my time."

    The funny thing is you are probably one of these people who goes into alpha testing expecting a finished product and then complains when the game is still a broken mess.
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Apoc is an Alpha of the MMORPG.
    Nodes aren't ready yet.
    Most likely, both the Divine Nodes and Military Nodes articles will be released before Alpha 1... not before.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    granthor wrote: »
    Mainly I am going back to the map they showed off a couple of years ago. The one used before all this arena PvP. I figure why can't we use that one now or has things go so far south, they can't use it anymore?
    I thought they said we're currently using part of the A0 map in Apoc?

  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Dygz wrote: »
    Apoc is an Alpha of the MMORPG.
    Now you’re making things up and contradicting the developers, who have separated the MMO and BR schedules. They’re very careful to do that in order to prevent the kind of misinformation you’re attempting to spread here.
     
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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Case in point, here is a press release from Intrepid:
    https://www.gamasutra.com/view/pressreleases/332437/Ashes_of_Creation_Apocalypse_Launches_December_18_nbsp.php

    That was the announcement for “open beta” a year ago for APOC. That’s their terminology. Please don’t confuse people by mixing up the two.
     
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  • granthor wrote: »
    I understand they want to get it right, but come on guys lets get the alpha going. Even Star Citizen has a long-running Alpha, Hook up a small map area, and start in-game testing the MMO parts. I for one isn't a fan of PvP and would love to test the MMO areas of the game. So what is the hold-up?

    Translation: "hurry up so that I can play this game, as I have nothing else better to do with my time."

    The funny thing is you are probably one of these people who goes into alpha testing expecting a finished product and then complains when the game is still a broken mess.

    Nooo, I am the Beta man, that points out last-minute bugs. thank you very much.
  • Dygz wrote: »
    granthor wrote: »
    Mainly I am going back to the map they showed off a couple of years ago. The one used before all this arena PvP. I figure why can't we use that one now or has things go so far south, they can't use it anymore?
    I thought they said we're currently using part of the A0 map in Apoc?

    I know, but my point was, why not still use that map to test the MMO parts.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited December 2019
    Atama wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Apoc is an Alpha of the MMORPG.
    Now you’re making things up and contradicting the developers, who have separated the MMO and BR schedules. They’re very careful to do that in order to prevent the kind of misinformation you’re attempting to spread here.
    I'm not making anything up. Apoc is literally an Alpha test for the MMORPG.
    Doesn't matter what label is attached.
    When you talk about separating MMORPG and BR schedules, you are really talking about external access to gameplay. Which is different than the actual content.
    The content is MMORPG Alpha content, systems and mechanics that we are testing.
    The setting for APOC is different than the setting for the MMORPG - thousands of years before the MMORPG setting.
    The stage of access for Apoc is Beta... in terms of how many players have access to that gameplay. The stage of access for the MMORPG is pre-Alpha. But, the content stage, as opposed to the access stage, is the same for both the BR and the MMORPG - they are both Alpha 0 content.
    A Beta, in terms of content, is feature complete and we know, regardless of the marketing label, that Apoc is not feature complete.
    Pretty sure Steven said the above in one of the recent dev livestreams.

    The devs aren't being careful to avoid "misinformation", they are attempting to avoid misconceptions - but, it's going to be muddied and confusing in any case.
    APOC is a testing ground for MMORPG content. It is standalone in the sense that the setting is different and the monetization is for a separate pool of funds- most importantly, to pay for maintenance of the APOC servers, which are separate from the MMORPG servers. Player access to gameplay is also separate. But we are currently testing MMORPG Alpha content in APOC.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    granthor wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    granthor wrote: »
    Mainly I am going back to the map they showed off a couple of years ago. The one used before all this arena PvP. I figure why can't we use that one now or has things go so far south, they can't use it anymore?
    I thought they said we're currently using part of the A0 map in Apoc?

    I know, but my point was, why not still use that map to test the MMO parts.
    Same reason we aren't currently using the original BR map.
    Playing the exact same map for 2+ years would be boring.
    I hope we get a new map every 3-6 months. Why would anyone want to keep playing on the same limited map for years at a time? Especially when they have new environmental assets and new biomes they can show off?
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    sooooo

    anyone happy for horde mode?
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • ShadowVenShadowVen Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Dygz wrote: »
    Apoc is an Alpha of the MMORPG.
    Nodes aren't ready yet.
    Most likely, both the Divine Nodes and Military Nodes articles will be released before Alpha 1... not before.

    Although it'd ONLY test server stability, I'd be really happy if they would let players in the two current APOC maps without the PVP. Remove the timer and BR aspects. Just let it be a map where players can socialize instead of the Discord channel. (if they have 1 or 2 emotes, great!)
    [img][/img]
  • AzryilAzryil Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ShadowVen wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    Apoc is an Alpha of the MMORPG.
    Nodes aren't ready yet.
    Most likely, both the Divine Nodes and Military Nodes articles will be released before Alpha 1... not before.

    Although it'd ONLY test server stability, I'd be really happy if they would let players in the two current APOC maps without the PVP. Remove the timer and BR aspects. Just let it be a map where players can socialize instead of the Discord channel. (if they have 1 or 2 emotes, great!)

    Play find the sandal....I might actually download the game if I didn't have to deal with the BR.
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Nagash wrote: »
    sooooo

    anyone happy for horde mode?

    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter
    I understood what you were expressing here.

    They can't continue to do anything until they find a way to keep a concurrent player base above 8 people in the BR testing. If they can't, then the MMO won't be out for quite a while.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ShadowVen wrote: »
    Although it'd ONLY test server stability, I'd be really happy if they would let players in the two current APOC maps without the PVP. Remove the timer and BR aspects. Just let it be a map where players can socialize instead of the Discord channel. (if they have 1 or 2 emotes, great!)
    Yeah, that's kind of an interesting idea.
    I think we'd need some more stuff to make that interesting, though.
    Like being able to make campfires and being able to sit and lie down.
    We would need to have some way of displaying our cosmetics/gear.
    I'd want to be able to display food and drink - hopefully with at least a drink emote.
    We've seen some dance emotes in the last livestream, I'm not sure those are in Apoc yet.

    I'm an Explorer/Socializer/Achiever/Killer. So, I would love to just socialize in APOC, but if we didn't have at least that much - it would probably feel easier for me to just chat in Discord.
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Makinoji wrote: »
    They can't continue to do anything until they find a way to keep a concurrent player base above 8 people in the BR testing. If they can't, then the MMO won't be out for quite a while.
    The MMORPG won't be out for quite a while.
    And, yes, they have to at least get Solos and Duos and Squads all working at the same time.
    Small map should be great for queue times, but only if more than 8 people are playing. Might be helpful to have at least a handful of map options.
  • DrEpochDrEpoch Member, Phoenix Initiative
    I say no to getting the alpha started. They're not ready. Reiterate. The infastructure is not ready. Infastructure meaning the code that interacts with everything. The client, the mobs, the physics, the matchmaking, the instancing. All that. We'll see 30 people on 1 server in a big open area, littered with memory leaks and just generally no content.

    So then what? "Screw the MMORPG" right? It's Doo Doo. I'd rather they get alpha 1 good and ready to go. Prepped with all the content and a backend pretty baked to make sure people have the best possible first impression of the MMORPG.
  • Is there a package that includes Alpha 1 testing or was that Apoc?
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited December 2019
    Apoc is free and open to everyone.
    I think Alpha 1 is just Kickstarter/Summer Backer packages - which are no longer offered.
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