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Dungeon Spawn Rate
DCarp
Member
I have a question about dungeon spawn rates. Sorry, new here. )
To my understanding, there will be non instance, seamless, dungeons.
How will it prevent players from camping a boss? Whats the spawn rate?
Thanks.
To my understanding, there will be non instance, seamless, dungeons.
How will it prevent players from camping a boss? Whats the spawn rate?
Thanks.
0
Comments
There are 2 types of dungeons:
instanced dungeons, for solo and group questlines
Open world dungeons, facilitating multiple groups at once
Dungeons can range from small and linear to bigger, non linear dungeons.
Mobs will drop mainly crafting materials as opposed to trash items. Loot will be based on creature type, a wolf wont drop a breastplate for example.
New dungwons will spawn eepending on node level and development.
Already existing dungeons will adapt to new node developments.
Difficulty can increase/decrease.
Population will change (most likely referring to encountered mob types)
Drop tables will represent nearby node development (dungeons around a scientific node will drop more materials for example)
What we sadly do not know currently, but it would be awesome of you to remember this question for the next lifestream!
Spawnrates
PvP setting
It could be that all dungeons get automatically set as a free for all pvp zone, aka all peop,e inside a dungeon get flagged as pvp combatants.
I would say that other people will prevent other people from camping a boss. For example: a group camps a troll boss, which i need the materials from. I would call my friends/guild mates and force the other people to fall back. That in turn could escalate or not, depending on the other group.
There could also always be the possibility for... *ugh* diplomacy...
Of course maybe there will be ones with entirely separate instances. We just don’t have much to go on yet.
They could also just go with different zoning.
Think areas outside dungeouns be designated as non pvp zones to stop ganking dugneouns entrances. Kind of like a safe zone. Not sure if Ashes of creation wants that type of pvp. But if you are on way to pve pvp most likely not on your mind
This wont happen, but the corruption system is going to stop senseless ganking.
Or just to put it in real simple terms I gank then I die then go gank again. Plus there is somethign called gear and skill. Matter of fact players might see how many levels of corruption they can get before dying. Plus if you are a pvper well hey pvp deaths take away corruption but really does not matter if you die while pvping.
Real problem is dying while just pveing or gathering materials. Do not see benifit of pvping while gathering mats. Im a pvper so you can kill me as many times as you wnat will not have much impact be doiing me favor if I have stacks of corruption. Do not know what the corruption system does for people that dislike pvp. Option to die and be punished for not fighting back and having attacker turn red does not sound too exciting. But hear it works just fine in another game.
So you get ganked well by the time you go back to kill the person that killed you he or she might be green so then you go red.
Plus People that farm entrances to dungeouns usuall get in large groups. So might take turns ganking go red kill each toher to go green and gank again, You will get killed but not by the people that you ganked so...Corruption system is full of holes in my opinion and needs to be revamped. Rather have it removed.
My system is fool proof so...unless there is a really really large group that gaurds the entire area. Some people love to gank but to them it is pvp not ganking.
Edit: I can't wait.
PvP by itself is a problem, not a game play option. It is only when PvP is controlled in some manner that it goes from being a problem to being a valid activity.
If the control for PvP became an issue in Ashes, they wouldn't remove that control. That is like saying a flow valve on a pipe is an issue, so just take it off. If you do that - just as if you removed corruption in Ashes - you are then left with a bigger problem.
If your flow restriction valve is broken, you turn the water off, put a new valve in, and then see if things are working as they should.
WIth Ashes, if corruption is broken, they don't remove corruption, they turn PvP off, replace corruption with another mechanic and then turn PvP back on to see if all is working as it should.
I've played with such systems before and they don't stop the PvP. The systems are often a reason why people choose to 'Roleplay' a Murderer or a Bandit, or a Highwayman. It's what happens when a ton of PvP players all get into a game together. I can appreciate that the attempt will be to stop this happening but rest assured there will be plenty of action for those of us who love to 'roleplay' hunters, bounty hunters and trackers.
The idea of corruption isn't to stop people killing other players - the fact that the bounty system will exist in Ashes says that the developers have a moral obligation to players to ensure there are players out there gaining corruption in order to feed those players that opted to put time and effort in to progressing in said bounty system.
The idea of the corruption system is to prevent wanton killing of players without reason, and to make it so that those that do want to roleplay the bandit or bad guy will forever be at a disadvantage.
That is the intent of the system. If that is not how it is functioning, it will be adjusted to function in that manner.
The game will cater to a vast player base if done right and some of the best PvP fights I've had across the years have been inside Dungeons and Raids. PvPing while tanking a Boss is something that adds so much depth and passion to a PvP fight and I can tell Steven has played MMOs like me because of his determination to give such thrills to the masses.
I don't aim to scare people off but the possibilities will always be there. It is the passion and the glory. It is the madness of a PvP world. At the beginning it will be chaos but order will form. This is why I backed Ashes of Creation (though my packages are once more disappeared from my.games or my.com). I'm still hyped for the potentials and with the added functions elsewhere Ashes does have the potential to be the best.
Everyone on these forums knows that there will always be the chance in Ashes of being killed. If you're a smart ass in chat, chances are people will kill you on sight. They can, and they'll feel good about it.
That isn't what is being debated here. What I'm questioning is your statement that corruption will be reduced or removed for "gankers".
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Raid encounters can turn in to good PvP fights, but raids where PvP is able to be encountered are invariably lackluster raids.
They are worth it as content due to the PvP they generate, but if you manage to get one such encounter without an enemy near by (something that will happen often in Ashes - with no fast travel), the encounters are basically loot pinatas.
It's not my problem if people don't like old PvP veterans. It will be my problem to match my old prowess on a new platform. Hence why I dislike the Alpha Gameplay right now because the tools aren't up to scratch.
It is not easy being PvE focussed when they have a BR and all they interact with is the PvP crowd and the BR people. I can't be too negative because people get banned off these forums. So i prefer to be honest about old instances and the potential for Ashes. The issues will be present until Ashes of Creation releases because we can't assess the game except for a BR standalone which isn't the MMO. So until Alpha 1 and beyond we don't have all of the answers. Just the concepts. The old method they said was if you don't fight back but if you are jumped mid fight and damage is received by the ganker it's a free kill.
There may not be a fast response because its not clear to me whether there will be global chat, regional chat or localised chat. There are so many variables that it is impossible for me to state how every interaction with a Ganker will go. Some gankers will literally want Corruption for the challenge. Not all gankers are bad at PvP.
I've always fought people of the same level as me or above. I've never kill lowbies unless I'm a lowbie too. I can only advise from a PvP perspective and what I have experienced on PvP servers where similar systems such as corruption have been used. Intrepid is not the first and won't be the last to initiate such a system. No system is infallible. It would be possible to report harassment in game though and each case will be individualized. Surely you understand that when someone is told not to do something they are more likely to do it. Its the whole risk, adrenaline, reward cycle. And the first time they do it they can get hooked.
This is because Intrepid have been very clear on the fact that accidental damage in PvP is not possible. The corruption system contains a flagging system within it, but players are not able to toggle between the different flags at will (which is my assumption as to what the quote would have been about).
The flagging system is a result of actions already taken, rather than intention of actions you want to take.
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The different levels of chat are not really an issue in terms of response to a ganker - even if global chat isn't a thing, it is safe to assume that guild chat will be, and that is where the bulk of any response would come from. What is a more immediate factor is the lack of fast travel - you can't mount any form of response if those willing to help out are 15 minutes away.
There may be fast travel if the nodes are upgraded to provide it. The game is so complex that taking snippets here and there doesn't even cover the potentials. The whole point is the fact that the game devs will develop the systems, the systems will have flaws and the game devs will adjust the systems.
It is true you may even get lost in Ashes of Creation. I can't even state how complex the game will be because we haven't had Alpha 1 yet. So it's all theory based on theory based on other MMOs which I tried to advise you in the healing thread. It is impossible to prevent ganking in a PvP world, We can only mitigate and respond accordingly. We aren't even sure we'll have access to a whole map - it's reliant on Cartography. So it is difficult for me to support the claims or refute the claims. I can only relay what I know.
I'm still not sure how that changes the understanding of the corruption system, or how it means players can deal accidental damage to other players though (let alone how that relates to gankers have corruptions reduced or removed), as that isn't a result of a toggle, but of a flag, and Ashes still has a flagging system. Well, it is only if you have an economic node at metropolis level that you have access to fast travel, and even then you need to be a citizen of that specific node to take full advantage of it.
The whole point right now is to test and relay feedback. You can give feedback to them.
This is their statement on the matter:
The open world PvP flagging system is designed to deter people from griefing other players. Players can participate in open world PvP with one another without having to resort to murder. Players will gank other players, but the intention is for Ashes of Creation to not be a "gank box".
So even they say they can't prevent it 100% and it would be bad of me to tell you that you aren't going to be ganked. You may never see another player but sometimes you might. You might never be ganked but some people will. I've stated the limitations of the system and would work with Intrepid to fix any exploits, bugs or harassment. I learn new things about Ashes every day and even with my experience they shouldn't just listen to me.
However, if you attack another player, then you become flagged as a combatant. You don't toggle the flag to become a combatant and then attack, the act of attacking changes your flag state.
This is all stuff we have known for almost 2 years - since April 2018 to be exact.
I'm still failing to see where your confusion is - or more importantly, how any of this can lead you to state... Like, none of that makes any sense.
At all. No, they shouldn't.
The two threads in which we have interacted with each other have hopefully proven to you that you don't know MMO's half as well as you think you do, because while you clearly think you're hot shit, it is obvious that you really don't know much.
As I've said several times, Intrepid WANT people to gain corruption. Since the only way to gain corruption is to kill a player that doesn't fight back (if the player fights back, both are then flagged as combatants, and you only gain corruption from killing non-combatants), Intrepid WANT one sided fights like this to happen.
They don't want them being the norm - but they want them to happen.
You can claim I know nothing of MMOs yet you are preaching bits of information stated before the alphas. I doubt even Intrepid knows how well the system works until there are players inside the system. They didn't even know their backend systems didn't work properly until we tested them. It is a natural disposition. It's the whole point of Alphas and Betas. It is not my issue if you have never done an Alpha or a Beta before but I have and I understand the processes. I can bitch about the Alpha game play because I want Intrepid to succeed. There is no value for me to play a game without other people; if this was the case I wouldn't have played so many MMOs. You expect me to be a fountain of knowledge but the Alpha hasn't even started for the MMO part. They closed down a lot of MMO videos and snippets over a year ago. I explained in the healing thread we have no new footage. Just old footage. Most players wouldn't even have entertained you this long.
Flagging systems have been around since the invention of flags.
It isn't a bad thing to be a PvPer. It isn't a bad thing for me to want to be a Bounty Hunter.
They have been very clear that you need to directly attack a player in order to deal damage to them in PvP. This means no accidental damage at all.
How that will work with action combat is yet to be seen, but we know the developers intent, and until they say otherwise the assumption we have to make in this regard is that they will find a way to make it work the way they have stated they want it to work.
So, according to all information we have now, accidentally attacking another player will not be possible. With the situation as you outline it, there is no reason not to fight back.
So why wouldn't you? I discuss things on this forum using the most recent information we have from Intrepid on the topic at hand. Nothing more, nothing less.
There is no other way of conducting such a discussion other than just making things up - which seems to be what you are doing here.
Will things change? Probably.
Can we talk about those changes before they are communicated to us? Not in any logical manner.
I never said it was, nor did I suggest as much.
As I have said before, Ashes will need PvP'ers in the game in order for the game to function.
There are ways to avoid this and there are ways people will try to exploit it. I've learnt the hard way on PvP servers. I prefer RP-PvP Servers but Ashes will be PvX. I'm a roleplayer at heart and a PvPer in soul.
Some classes will have more AoE than others. It's not my place to restrict others or encourage others to gank. I mean the topic in itself is clearly inflammatory. The reason I would fight back is because I'm a PvPer. I mean to me it makes no sense to give free kills but in other games Experience was rewarded for PvP kills and PvP armour was earnt from such experience which only encouraged ganking further. There isn't PvP experience or PvP Armour to even get in Ashes of Creation. There are no PvP levels. The old games I've played I've always maxed out the PvP levels. I did it in legitimate ways such as Arenas, Battlefields, Duels and Sieges. You aren't even expected to get PvP levels or PvP Armour in Ashes of Creation the MMO.
The issue you have is the death penalties in Ashes and if I want to protect what I'm carrying I'd neither submit to an easy kill nor go corrupted. I enjoy wild abandon and won't be limiting my skills based on fear. The microcosm is so focused and skillful that it's not even easy to pull off. The more details you want me to give just promotes what I've avoided by not bringing my old gaming partner to Ashes of Creation. This is why I still believe you shouldn't base your expectations on any MMO except the MMO you are testing. This is why a rail against ground attacks and Totems for Cleric. It's like Intrepid want Cleric to be the main targets. It's not like Healers aren't main targets anyway.
As I said though, with action combat it is somewhat more complex, but since it is Intrepids stated intention, you and I are currently in no position to assume anything other than that they will make it happen.
You and I are in no position to state that because we can't see how it could be done, it can't be done - and that seems to be your argument here.
You failed to address your free kill statement that I queried you about.
You said that if you attack them by mistake and flag yourself (which isn't possible, but that's ok), they could then attack you and then themselves be flagged, at which point you said that they get a free kill if you don't fight back.
My question was and is - why is that player not fighting back? Both players are flagged, neither are at risk of gaining corruption.
This is why I've explained before not to use other MMOs as examples. The Hybrid System hasn't even been tested but you are stating that it's infallible. All of the old footage of the arenas at pax had totems. They were all tab to my knowledge. So I don't understand why you think the system is infallible. I'm still of the opinion that the combat should be upscaled and enhanced. The combat system in the BR can't even be used for comparison at present though the lone Castle Siege in December could be.
It is difficult for me to go beyond my own experience because Alphas have been delayed. The issue is that the concepts are theory until we can test the concepts. I mean everything we are discussing is subject to change. Everything we are discussing is seen as taboo. An AoE is an AoE whether its tab, reticulated or free-form. If a player wants to walk into AoE to be flagged to my knowledge that wouldn't be impossible unless you can explain how players will be flagged if its not from damage.
yes, this might be changed but that is currently how we avoid a scenario where you accidentally aoe greens.
That is why the only valid discussions revolve around the intention of the developers, rather than around the mechanics of specific systems. How they make the system work is none of my business, and I wouldn't ever argue otherwise.
However, I can give you an example of how it could work in a tab target situation.
They could build the combat system around AoE's needing a enemy being targeted in order to function. This could be by centering AoE's on said enemy target, though I'm sure they could make this apply to other AoE's as well if they wanted to.
Since you need to have a valid enemy target selected in order to cast an AoE, that means if you are targeting another player and cast an AoE, you are then dealing damage to that player, and any other enemy combatants or players you have engaged with that are within range of that AoE.
Your target is still flagged as a non-combatant, but is one that you are engaged against.
This means that if there is a large group of players that you want to attack, you have to attack them all individually before using AoE's on them all - meaning AoE's will likely not be what people use to initiate combat in Ashes of creation - unless they are fighting a group of players that are already flagged as combatants.
The above is what I was referring to when I said that how this could work in a tab target game is obvious - as all of the above is very obvious if you understand the intent behind the systems we have been told about so far. That is not to say it is the only way it could be done - it is merely one way it could be done and I have no desire to predict exactly what Intrepid will do.
How this would work with action targeting is yet to be seen, as I have said, and I make no claims as to knowing how Intrepid may implement such a system - other than that they have stated their intention is that accidental AoE damage will not be a thing.