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Subscription Model

Now, don't get me wrong, I have no negative feedback towards a subscription model, especially to keep a P2W cash shop out of a game. I just wanted to read from a staff POV for leaning towards a subscription based model.
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Comments

  • Great comment Vincent!

    Our philosophy is that Subscription based games<strong> should not </strong>employ cash shops that offer a pay to win atmosphere. We want to constantly be adding updates, expansions and new content in general, which is why we have decided to go with a subscription model.
  • I prefer paying for a sub so thats a plus
  • When is Alpha?
  • I am also a big fan of the subscription model, and would like to know more information about upcoming tests and how those who have joined the forum get a higher chance of becoming eligible for one.
  • I prefer f2p model as sub based one feels like a job most of the time (I have to play since I'm paying). Depend on the game really, some games profit from it but most turn players away. On the other hand finding a balance between p2p and p2w is like discovering meaning of life! Not an easy task to do. Good luck from me.
  • You guys have made me EXTREMELY happy! Sub for life!
  • I think the big thing for an MMO scene on the topic between F2P and P2P is that many F2P games MUST find other ways to keep themselves afloat in terms of overall running costs and playerbase to support said running costs.

    The problem then becomes "We need to generate enough revenue through a cash shop to keep servers going while paying maintenance, updates, and ETC for new content."

    Which is the thing: Cash shop items are a one time purchase if you do only cosmetics. Even if you have a bunch of people who purchase them, it's normally only a one time thing and a relatively small purchase. MMOs require vasts amounts of monetary resources compared to other genres due to large content generation needed, large overhead from server costs, and a constant marketing campaign to keep the playerbase high AND continuing to play.

    <strong>So where do these companies turn for revenue?</strong> The answer is by creating a slightly lopsided balance with either P2W items that are exceptionally hard to get standardly / through in game time, OR lots of items that decrease the time needed to achieve something (Pay 2 Skip).

    In a subscription model you alleviate a lot of these problems by having a monthly pay lot from each person that should, if done correctly with a decent playerbase, be enough to cover overhead costs WHILE allowing for continuous expansion of the game's features, content, and mechanics. The extra tacc'd on cash shop for cosmetics is on top of this a bonus to help supplement the fact that this game's pay model uses a 15% cash back reward on every person you refer (meaning they only get 85% of said original subscription price). The reason this setup will be unique is because the marketing campaign is done by the new media outlets created in the market (youtube, twitch) and instead uses them to incentivise large youtubers/streamers to try the game and, if they enjoy it, migrate a large portion of people here.

    Not only will the people be able to enjoy an MMO with their followers, but they will also be able to get rewarded for using these new era media outlets as a new and effective form of marketing. On top of this all the people they refer that play will be generating revenue for the streamer/youtuber. It's a mutual benefit for the game (free marketing), and the streamers/youtubers who get to enjoy a game they like while engaging with their community along with getting some income on the side. Income, by the way, that is not delivered in shady underhanded deals, but by simply helping to grow the community.

    EDIT: Totally available for PR / Marketing Advisor just saying
  • I think every game developer should watch this video. It's a few years old now, but really interesting points made and the conversation it makes is super important.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHC-uGDbu7s
  • Well first and foremost, I want to say this game has potential. I also want to say this much, while you may have a great game. Please do not ruin it with greed. Companies like Trion/Kakao Games are a huge example of this. There is just so much negativity in their communities about how the player's hate the company, and how the company never listens. One thing you need to understand is being able to listen to your community of players. If there's a vocal majority, chances are it's for a very good reason. People don't complain for no reason and this is especially true for when it comes to bugs.

    Bugs will destroy a game before it even launches, NPC's breaking, freezing, not being able to grab items, visual bugs. These all break immersion and will ruin a game VERY fast. Another company who has a bad track record with their public is Tree of Savior by IMC, they've had a visual bug since their Alpha that they just refuse to fix and this is going into my point of greed. Greed ruins a game, when a developer or a team of developers get's so infatuated about the good old dollar sign that it becomes all they care about and even break promises just to squeeze out a bit of profit.

    I get that servers cost money and you need to take home a paycheck, I really do but don't ruin a potential game by putting in stuff the community does NOT want, or if you do throw something in, give us a reason. We know you won't be a "WoW Killer" but find yourself a niche and stick to it. Find something that makes your game unique and will draw in an audience with those features. Don't let greed consume you and throw in features that we find in every generic MMO.

    My next point, the good old argument: Pay To Win.
    I'm sure by now people are worried about if there's going to be a cash shop. If there is going to be one, make sure it's COSMETICS. People LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Cosmetics. But do it at a reasonable price, 10-15$ for a costume is reasonable. Taking a looking at Final Fantasy XIV by Naoki Yoshida, check out their Mog Station, that is a VERY good way to run a Cash Shop in an MMORPG without ruining the game.

    There's just so much knowledge on the Do's and Don't's of an MMORPG and what developers should and shouldn't do. Please don't be a failure like the rest of them.
  • The sad fact and the one thing that makes me sad about this game already is the fact there is a cash shop at all. The Elder Scrolls Online added in their Crown Store (see cash shop) and while it is cosmetics they have effectively removed ALL cosmetics from the game period. There are no more mounts/pets to earn via ingame methods. There are no costumes to earn through quests/achievements. It is all controlled by your wallet and has really left a sour taste in my mouth for a game that WAS subscription model and then went to Buy-To-Play with optional subscription and an OVERLY used cash shop.

    I am curious how much emphasis are you planning on putting in this "cosmetic" only cash shop? To some people cosmetics are their endgame.

    A good friend of mine wrote up a GREAT article about how modern mmos try to remove all cosmetics from their game and add it to cash shops because "It's only cosmetics, it doesn't really matter." I would encourage you to think about the points being made and why games such as World of Warcraft have such a dedicated fanbase.

    https://errantpenman.com/2016/09/30/why-mmo-cosmetics-matter/
  • @aggelos touched on many things that i completely agree with that i am sick of in the MMORPG genre. just compare mounts in WoW to Mounts in most other MMO's farming mounts In WoW as a new player would keep you busy for quite sometime yet other games just give us some money which completely removes something that could be turned into in game content. Or as i like to call it Whoring out the game! they start putting so much of in game content in the shop that so much potential game play options are just gone.

    I love paying a sub fee mainly to keep a cash shop out of the game and to know that i'm supported the game so they can keep providing quality content for years to come.If there is a cash shop and a sub fee i have to ask myself why pay a sub when i can play some F2P mmo and just keep my money and to me there would be no differance.
  • Our inclusion of a cosmetic marketplace shop will not limit the quest/in-game cosmetic items attainable for players who choose not to purchase from the marketplace shop. Our philosophy and intent is to keep the marketplace more of a rewards oriented shop, that players can use their referral benefits to purchase in-game cosmetics and whatnot.

    I understand that many AAA corporate MMO's have turned this idea of a marketplace into a cashgrab or pay2win function. But I assure you, that is not in any way shape or form our intent.

    Currently, our Referral Program offers players a way to earn marketplace credits and even real cashback. This marketplace gives them a place to get rewarded in-game for bringing people to our community.
  • @sorcerer So almost like a Refer-A-Friend type thing? I would prefer no cash shop but even World of Warcraft has one but as my friend in his article stated there is a balance. For everyone 1 mount they add to the cash shop they add 10 to the game to earn. Is that more aligned with your philosophy?

    Having a small one for rewards for referrals etc is great idea as long as there is a balance tween what is added to the marketplace and what is added to the game. The Elder Scrolls Online went too far towards the adding EVERYTHING to the Crown Store with each month adding upwards of 12-15 items to their store but only once a quarter adding MAYBE one cosmetic to the game to earn via hard challenges.
  • To be honest, the best and the most fair subscription model is the b2p one like in Guild Wars 1/2.

    You pay the fulll price for the full game and You have only cosmetic items in the cash shop (Like costumes and stuff) and You even can exchange the gold for cash shop currency. The biggest downside of this model is the developer is depending on one time purchases and the percentage of ppl who leave money in the cash shop, which may not be that great considering this game and developer is not very well known (not to take away something from You guys), which can hurt the updates to the game.

    But for the small, not well known team the sub model is the best i think. You don't need to have millions of subscriptions to be profitable.
  • So happy to hear you guys are going with a subscription model! Can't wait to play!
  • The model that's been put forth so far I can 100% agree on. I think a subscription helps limit bit accounts and spam accounts, such was the problem in Archeage, where it was free with optional sub.

    Oh, your account was banned for botting? Well you still have the 15 other accounts plus the 15 more you create this month.

    I hope the item shop does stay cosmetic yet they still leave an option to get these cosmetics via in game methods. I've never understood the model of wanting a player to go outside your game to progress in it. Like why play your game and contribute to a community when I can go to work for 8hrs, use the money I earn and just buy what i need?

    The referral system talked about here shows me this company understands the need for community, and it gives me hope!
  • Hello,

    Good idea. Sub is a win and its worth it. I agree with the cash shop also BUT only if no p2w items are there.
  • I do like the subscription model. The game looks good so far, but i do hope it can convince a lot of people to pay a subscription in order for them to play it, as in I do hope it doesn't lack in the end game. I hope theres a lot of good reasons to stay subbed.
  • Honestly I prefer B2P.
  • I have no problem with subscription based model. B2P are my preferred, but a sub removes all worries. I don't like the idea of sub AND cash shop, though one likes blizzard seems acceptable, especially if they do charities like Blizzard does for mounts sold at certain times.
  • Perfectly fine with a sub model and no P2W cash shop. Thank you!
  • Awesome.

    We pay for everything via subscription

    Netflix; Amazon Prime; HumbleBundle; Xbox; PS; Comics; Cinema; Mortgage; Nursery Fees; Life Insurance..... like...

    Subscriptions are fine by me.
  • Hi @Creative-Director-Steven,

    I'm super excited to see these types of topics being tackled early and explicitly. I'd almost thought thought we'd have to give up on hope on new MMORPGs doing things right in the future.

    *pauses*

    So, I was about to plug the <a href="http://www.mmogames.com/gamearticles/why-mmo-cosmetics-matter/" target="_blank">Why Cosmetics Matter</a> article I wrote a few months ago as a lead-in to my concerns, but I see @Aggelos has already done that. Cool! Moving on then...

    I think my big concern is that cosmetics really do matter, and that many, many players find to be one of their greatest sources of long-term objective setting. I know when I play a game it's something that's important to me, but when I'm trying to get my girlfriend hooked on a game (which is a big deal for my own long-term engagement), if I can't establish some sort of fashion meta / pet collecting system that exists outside of the cash shop, my odds of getting her to stick around grow quite slim. For a lot of players, collectible rewards are just as important as traditional gear progression, if not more so, thanks to their evergreen nature.

    I don't have a problem with you guys having a cash shop on top of your subscription product, but I'd like its influence to be slim. A lot of games these days, of which The Elder Scrolls Online is probably among the most egregious, completely neglect cosmetic/collectible reward systems in favor of total monetization. This is something that's harmful to the game's health, but also a bit much to bear when you're talking about a premium title at a premium price point, as the subscription model very much is.

    What I'm saying is, in only a few words - have good collectible systems in game, and strike a careful balance between what's in the game and what's in the cash shop. World of Warcraft is a great example of a game where for every mount that goes into the shop, ten to twenty show up in the game. That's how it's done, and no one complains about the cash shop as a result.

    Do what you have to do to turn a profit, but don't pillage what should be considered a core gameplay system to get it done. It does more harm than good.
  • Well they said that it's not going to be their course of action, for the game to be a Pay 2 Win/Cash Grab. But Daum/Kakao Games said the same thing and that got turned on it's head. When this game releases and we look back on this forum a few years from now and you don't uphold your end of the deal, don't say I didn't tell you so.

    Money is one thing all MMO businesses want, how they do it is all wrong. If you want it done correctly, you put in cosmetics. People love cosmetics.
  • I am probably one end of the spectrum. I have no problem with B2P with a subscription. I realize that is not an option for many people who are making their way in the world. Either way, B2P or sub is good by me.
  • Although I enjoy them, I've never paid for cosmetics and don't plan to start with AoC. I'm happy to pay a subscription and earn everything in-game.
  • [quote quote=448]Great comment Vincent!

    Our philosophy is that Subscription based games<strong> should not </strong>employ cash shops that offer a pay to win atmosphere. We want to constantly be adding updates, expansions and new content in general, which is why we have decided to go with a subscription model.

    [/quote] I am very much against a subscription model. This upsets me and I'm sorry to say I'm no longer interested in the game.
  • Subscription model sounds good to me!
  • It has been quite awhile since I have happened upon the early information of a new MMORPG and been impressed/excited.
    Kudos on the information released thus far, I will maintain a close eye on this project.

    B2P+SUB >>> than any other model

    It is the "whatnot" when discussing cashshops that gives me pause though.
    Lock it down right from the beginning, define it's limitations and stick to it.

    I am certain you are aware it is a poorly managed cashshop that has sunk
    many recent attractive sandbox/land control MMOs.
  • I can get behind a subscription model as long as it takes the time to consider which country a player is coming from.
    But this might cause extra work on the dev side so that abuse of a country based subscription system will be non existent.
    Im from SEA so $ based subscriptions is are going to be real difficult for me. T_T
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