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PvE Reward system.
consultant
Member
Hello gents and ladies,
Players could get rewarded for the following
-Staying out of fire Individually and Group
-Not wiping in one dungeoun or raid individually and group
-interupts (crowd control score)
-Participating in raid or dungeoun mechanics Individualy and as a group.
-downing mini boss or boss in a set amount of time.
-Downing boss in first attempt
Now they could get rewarded by gold or dungeoun currency or some other type of currency.
Think this woudl encourage giving out buffs to keep toons alive as a group, would encourage players to get involved in raid and dungeoun mechanics (could take turns going through a number of mini bosses and final boss)
Really if a raid group downs all the bosses with out wiping ounce then should be rewarded think should be rewarded even if they wipe lets say three times. Gold Silver and Bronze per say.
Could even have a performance score as a group.
But the biggest benifit is that it serves as a self contained self perpauted mentoring program so toons should be close to raid ready by the time they get to max leve. Plus imagine 99 percent of server not standing in the fire would make dungeouns and raiding a lot more enjoyable. Plus Ashes of creation community would be one of the most skilled communites.
As far as honoring people in PvE well could be done while playing through icons/emojis. For example could have an icon that stands for well played another for great save and so on. Just target player and honor them. Different game mechanics could be used like target rightclick select honor then select what you want to recognize them for.
Been playing League of Legends and well found out most of the time team work gets recognized more so than most kills. Like when you go help someone out when they are low on health.
Not being honored when you do a great job or getting honored when you do not deserve really does not matter much. But the times that it works properly getting recoginized for playing a really good game. Well those count more have much more meaning than the others. Basicallly getting noticed for good plays ounce in a while is great.
Plus the result of such a system is that every event (dungeouns raid for pve) becomes an opportunity shine.
Do not feel it is necessary to go through actual game mechanicsl like interupts coulb be rewarded by 3 gold capped at 5 per event or 15 extra gold, because I am sure development team could figure it out.
I know honor systems can be exploited a bit not to imporatant if reward for such system is small but think benefits of such system out weights the cons. Talking about player recognition system not perfomance reward system.
Players could get rewarded for the following
-Staying out of fire Individually and Group
-Not wiping in one dungeoun or raid individually and group
-interupts (crowd control score)
-Participating in raid or dungeoun mechanics Individualy and as a group.
-downing mini boss or boss in a set amount of time.
-Downing boss in first attempt
Now they could get rewarded by gold or dungeoun currency or some other type of currency.
Think this woudl encourage giving out buffs to keep toons alive as a group, would encourage players to get involved in raid and dungeoun mechanics (could take turns going through a number of mini bosses and final boss)
Really if a raid group downs all the bosses with out wiping ounce then should be rewarded think should be rewarded even if they wipe lets say three times. Gold Silver and Bronze per say.
Could even have a performance score as a group.
But the biggest benifit is that it serves as a self contained self perpauted mentoring program so toons should be close to raid ready by the time they get to max leve. Plus imagine 99 percent of server not standing in the fire would make dungeouns and raiding a lot more enjoyable. Plus Ashes of creation community would be one of the most skilled communites.
As far as honoring people in PvE well could be done while playing through icons/emojis. For example could have an icon that stands for well played another for great save and so on. Just target player and honor them. Different game mechanics could be used like target rightclick select honor then select what you want to recognize them for.
Been playing League of Legends and well found out most of the time team work gets recognized more so than most kills. Like when you go help someone out when they are low on health.
Not being honored when you do a great job or getting honored when you do not deserve really does not matter much. But the times that it works properly getting recoginized for playing a really good game. Well those count more have much more meaning than the others. Basicallly getting noticed for good plays ounce in a while is great.
Plus the result of such a system is that every event (dungeouns raid for pve) becomes an opportunity shine.
Do not feel it is necessary to go through actual game mechanicsl like interupts coulb be rewarded by 3 gold capped at 5 per event or 15 extra gold, because I am sure development team could figure it out.
I know honor systems can be exploited a bit not to imporatant if reward for such system is small but think benefits of such system out weights the cons. Talking about player recognition system not perfomance reward system.
0
Comments
So... you want to reward people for doing their job? All of those are normal tasks for any normal raid member in ANY other mmorpg.
Their reward is to be able to join a raid and get some loot after killing a boss monster.
I would say that raid specific achievements would warant certain currency for raid themed transmogs.
Extra rewards for the whole group if they go above and beyond, like speedrunning/no hit runs. (Also for solo content.) A good idea as long as the group agrees on the extra objectives. But also, it's somewhat redundant, because players already try to clear quickly and not get hit, just to save time. I do like the idea of bonus challenges/achievements, but dungeon affixes or challenge modes might be better for it though.
Individual bonuses within a team is a noble idea, but terrible in practice. The best way to get those kinds of bonuses are to rely on or abuse your team in order to pad your own stats. I don't think that should be rewarded.
And honor systems for "recognition" is literally just social interaction but streamlined. Good for League of Legends since people don't like talking in that game. Kinda pointless in an MMO. If people want to show their appreciation, they can just chat, or emote, or give gifts via trade/mail, or some combination of those.
I know people like them, but I'd reserve them for special things, maybe exploring the whole world or something like that. I don't know.
I feel like those things are a waste of time of developers that could be use on other things, but well, some people love them, I don't know.
I believe they create artificial content, while the content should be the game and world itself, not jumping from the 10 highest peaks of the world.
I don't think we need to reward players for doing things well beyond what they get from completing content.
The game already encourages you to clear quickly with the least number of people as less people equals more loot and speed means more loot faster. The quicker you get loot, the faster you can bank it and go get more. You also save a lot by not dying as you don't need to repair your gear and farm back negative exp.
Nope.
People that know how to play - and want to play well - will buff others appropriately.
Players that do not know how to play properly will not, and no matter how many times they are told, they will continue to not buff properly.
Same can be said for players that don't get out of the way of AoE effects. Those that are able already do, the people that don't are the ones that can't - for any number of reasons.
If you need the game to tell you that you did a good job as a healer when you heal a player, then LoL probably is the game for you.
In an MMO, if you are a healer, healing others is the base level of expectation - you don't get a pat on the back for doing the minimum required.
Your "system" would "casual" the concept of reward and lower the standards a lot. I am not saying we should all be some kind of godlike player.
But your reward should be what the game gives you already, and the extra one is the recognition you get from other players for doing well. I don't want the game to tell me that I did well to satisfy the insecure snowflake that I will become with that kind of system.
Regarding the LOL honor system, I can see it having its place on specific pvp format in AOC, with limited choices we could "honor" a player, and it would show on some kind of player profile I guess ... But nothing more.
Sure you have succeeded in your personal objective of staying out of the fire but in doing so you have screwed over your teammates and ultimately made the fight harder for everyone.
In high end PvE content, things like interrupts and CC are carefully coordinated, with players assigned to each task. These tasks are usually decided in the first few pulls and (in a static team) are set in stone from there on out. Rewarding someone individually for doing interrupts and CC makes no sense in that environment.
This particular sentence stuck out to me as it is completely false. As a support main in LoL I lost count of the number of times I stepped in to help someone, died and got flamed for it by my teammates, or I died because of someone else's mistake and got blamed for it. You say that teamwork gets recognised more than kills, then why is it that the player with the most honours at the end of a match is usually the player who "carried" i.e. got the most kills?
Now, I totally get what you are going for here. You want players to improve and be rewarded for their skill. I get that, but individual rewards are not the way to do it.
I feel you bruh, support is for altruists, you give yourself and most of the time, you end up flamed by the teamate you died for.
Plus greatly disagree with the theme that no point of a mentoring program cause the people that stand in the fire will always stand in the fire.
It actually does not even have to gold or currency but let just say that my original idea for this system is a system like the one in Battlefield Modern Combat were you get stars at end of event but since there are no combat trackers in this game well... . Not this particular system but similar systems work really well in other games so.....somethign that is already proven to work.
But just to clue you guys in let me ask you some questions. Do people want to stand in the fire in general and possibley die. Answer is NO. So why does it happen so much? Next question Have you ever stood in the fire. Well gents and ladies what is the answer to those question. Next post will be solution for not standing in fire.
Have I ever stood in the fire? Yes, as I'm sure everyone has. What caused me to stand in the fire? Usually 1 of 3 reasons:
1. I haven't fully learned the fight or how to avoid the fire yet
2. The mechanics of the fight or someone else's mistake required me to stand in the fire
3. I'm distracted either by what spells I'm using or (more often than not) raid leading and trying to keep track of my raid members instead of focusing on where my character is standing.
Numbers 1 and 3 are the most common reasons for people standing in the fire. A lot of players go into raids before fully learning their class which means they have to spend more time and effort thinking about what buttons to press instead of the mechanics of the fight.
Putting extra rewards in for avoiding the fire aren't going to magically solve these issues.
In that case, I'd argue that the fire is not very good fire. I'd rather the fire just do more damage, if it's supposed to be important. Or maybe I'm doing easy content because I don't wanna worry about every fire puddle.
I also like having the choice in how to deal with the fire (healing through it, or resisting it with some kind of defensive ability should be valid options too.)
Oh yeah, if you have the raid on farm and you have overgeared the content then standing in the fire is very common too. You know your healers can handle it and it allows you to focus on doing as much damage as possible to kill the fight asap.
Main reasons for people standing in fire during raid encounters:
1. "I wanted to finish my cast!"
2. "What are Healers there for?!?"
3. "I thought we had to soak it."
4. "There was fire?"
5. "Sry, i was distracted irl!"
6. "I thought I could tank it."
Most people that stand in fire are found in PUGs or Raidfinder, where healers are oftentimes overgeared and where one good healer can heal most of the group. Where people dont care (at least until they wipe the third time because of this mistake)
Trust me, if i found someone standing in fire in one of my raids back then, then they better had a better excuse then not noticing it or trying to get a cast through last minute.
It is the raidleads responsebility to find faults in people actions and either help them fix them (mechanical or encounter specific faults for example: not standing in fire) and if they dont listen and keep on doing those same mistakes time and time again, then it is also the raid leads responsibility to kick them out of the raid. It would not be fair to the rest of the raid, if you kept these people in the raid.
So one good thing to do to get your head in the game is to do moderate or difficult dungeoun as a warm up game.
Another reason is people have tunnel vision the opposite of tunnel vision is when you are driving and you all the sudden notice a car right on your tail while looking at the road in front of you then after wards you glance in the mirror and sure enough some one is reight behind. One good way to avoid that is to increase the distance between your eyes and the monitor. Kind of like leaning back in front row seat of movie theater
Another reason is poeple not know their rotation cycle well enough. Some classes do not have rotation cycles per say more like first come first serve but point is you cannot be thinking abotu which key you have to hit or which dps ability you have to hit next and focus on your surroundings. To put it different terms You have to know you class well enough so that your rotation cycle is second nature giving you the ability concentrate on your surroundings or not standing in the fire. Muscle memory and keybindings.
As far as learning raid mechanics well have to say more difficult raids do have faster reactions times and more complicated mechanics but as far as normal raiding Part of the reason poeple have difficultty learning mechanics. Raid leaders may explain the fight but the terms they use are foreegn. If I say barrel then every one know what talking about. But If Say shadow strike unless they know what shadow strike looks like in game. So yes while they know it is shadow strike they do not know what it looks like in game. Better of saying hey there is going to be a purple circles on the ground that you have to move out of.
But all the this problems could be solved by simpley have a target mini boss (instead o target dummy)that doles out different game mechanics. And if you do not know a certain game mechinic looks like have option for the dummy mini boss to cast it. Now the huge drawback with it does take away from the first time you do a raid and figuring out raid as you go but better than wiping a lot.
So in a nutshell dummy mini boss would help out a lot but could also have practice dugeouns were you have all kinds of knobs to turn and lots of options to train or could just use easy dungeouns.
So we've gone from giving out rewards for good play to providing a training dummy to practice raid mechanics on. I'm fine with having a raid training dummy in the game but don't expect many people to use it.
But one magical solution to just about everything is embercoins and reallly cool mounts and legendary gear put something behind that in people will do it.
More people will just buy it.
People already play MMO's the way people want to play MMO's. Changing player behavior is almost impossible.
If you join pick up groups a lot, you will always have to deal with the issues involved in joining pick up groups.
Most MMO's already have two built in systems to allow players a way to avoid these situations; friends lists and guilds. Totally agree, it would be a good addition.
The people that would use it though, are the top end raiders, and others that actually want to be as good as they can be.
People that don't know how to function in a group are already not taking the time to learn how to function in a group, giving them one more avenue to potentially learn how to function won't do anything when they already aren't interested in spending the time learning.
All a training dummy would do is increase the gap between those players that want to be as good as they can, and those that don't see the point.
I think MMOs should aspire to teach it's players, to be flexible, to support the interaction of different people and playstyles.
If the devs held your opinion that people can't grow, then I doubt they'd make a good MMO. They'd probably just make a skinner box and a hollow social system. Actually, I think I've seen those before: shitty mobile games that ask you to "friend" other players just so you can exchange daily gifts and grind garbage a little faster.
I deleted three paragraphs because apparently I can't disagree with people without going into a 3-page rant..
Doing a dungeon and getting "magical currency" that you can turn into equipment, it's horrible design.
Dungeons should give mats and that's about it. Not only the boss could drop the mats, but also lower quality could be dropped by mobs to make better gear or different equipment, that why even if you don't kill the boss, you slightly advance.
Also, giving rewards for doing the right thing... well, it is weird. Some people can't just follow instructions, no matter how much money you throw at them.
The reward should be the experience itself, and the materials you get for your Node/Guild to improve and become more powerful to dominate all sentient life
MMO's should support different people and playstyles, MMO communities should be the ones teaching, imo.
People don't want their games content pushing them - they want the content there, and if they feel like taking it on they will do so.
You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. Similarly, if you try to force players to learn and improve when they don't want to, they will dig in their heels and refuse.
I personally have no problem with people not wanting to learn as long as they understand that refusing to learn might lock them out of certain content and rewards. Unfortunately I've seen too many mmorpgs that respond to the "omg it's too hard" whining with changes to make the content easier. This kind of reaction usually backfires and results in a playerbase that can't do anything for themselves.
Completely agree.
I spend a lot of time in game scouting out new players to pick up raiding - whether by joining the raid guild I am in, joining a different guild or participating in pick up raids (the more people that raid in any given MMO, the more of the develoeprs resources they can commit to raiding).
I often either run or join 20+ pickup groups a week on various alts, looking for players that would be suitable for raiding, and guide those that are keen in how to get started. Since one of the key attributes of a raider is the willingness to listen and learn, that is basically the only thing I look for in players.
Therer are a surprising number of pigheaded people out there that simply won't listen to anyone (or indeed - to everyone), even when it is obvious even to that person that they are doing something wrong.
The plurality of players are happy to recieve a small amount of guidance, but there absolutely are a group of people that will play a game until it gets challenging, and then blame the content for being too hard from that point onwards.
There is a saying that is applicable in some situations and that is everything rises and falls on leadership another saying is people will rise to their expectations. Actually have seen that done. One person gets put into a leadership position and all the sudden perfomance sky rockets. One example in real life is coaches.
Personally I have been the person that stands in the fire and gotten kicked out of dungeouns and not been able to get into raid so I just PvPed and well as it turns PvP is a not a good mentoring program just too punishing but forces you to have raid awareness forces you to push all those buttons at right time. Plus lets say get good at pvp then start playing into better brackets. Well those guys exploit any mistake you make so it is even more punishing. So basically have to bring your A game every time. Nothing to do with skill cause MMOs Usually have one second cool down. more time than needed to hit next button. Just a matter of being in an environment were more is required there for you do more. More like natural selection.
Then I went back to raiding with decent guild. Doing Dragon Soul normal for first time think I wiped ounce but went right through hit . But thing is guys there thought I had already done the raid on an alt and did not beleive it was my first time cuase I played so well. Only thing I am thinking of nothing to it guys. Going to Skip rest of that story and say thet the guilds that are competing for being in top ten on server and top 100 in north ameirca. Those guilds play on a whole different level. Wiping and standing in the fire is not something they worry aout. Just as skilled as top PvPers.
In my opinion theres is nothing to normal raiding. Can honestly say that trying to kill a healer in 3v3 is at least twice as challenging as any raid boss. What I learned from the point that I got kicked from dungeouns to the point were raid leaders wanted me in their raid is not much. Just matter of knowing of how to do it. Are mentoring programs absolete and is not that what a raid leader is a mentor.
Your posts look real negative to me and not at all realistic.
The hardest raids in WoW are analagous to the lower to mid level raids in many other games. This is not what is referred to when people talk about player skill in an MMO.
Also, you need to learn how to quote the posts you are replying to. I am assuming you are replying to my post, but it is honestly just an assumption.
So, let me get this straight. You were kicked from a dungeon group for standing in the fire too much, so believed you would never get into a raid group and did PvP instead. Then after some time doing PvP you went back to raiding and suddenly found you were playing well and raid leaders were asking you to join them. While that is a fun little story I don't see what it has to do with putting extra rewards in PvE content.
Also, there is very little point in comparing instanced PvP with raiding. They are completely different. Success in PvP relies on correctly predicting your opponents and forcing them to waste their cooldowns whilst you save yours for the best possible moment.
Successful raiding (especially at the top end) is all about perfectly executing a strategy where everything is pre-planned, and even random elements in the fight are accounted for. This is a completely different skillset to PvP.
My guess is that in doing the PvP you became a lot more comfortable with your character, able to execute your combos and rotations without having to think about them, meaning you could focus on what is going on around you. You're implying that you only improved because you were doing PvP, but I'd be willing to bet that if you had stuck with PvE, you would have improved in similar ways.
Even with skills shots since raid bosses do not move around or dodge attacks so your eyes do not have to be glued to the target. So no tunnel vision required.
Another thing you could do to not stand in the fire is not to use the first person veiw point of view. but take 3rd person point of view and a little far away and camera angle should be tilted toward the ground a little.
Now the things I mentioned might seem redundant, but probably not so for someone that stands in the fire.
Problem is getting this information to the players that need it.
Instead of a PvE reward system you could in fact have a PvE punishing system were people get less gold for bad performance what do you guys think of that.
There could be a red x in a square with that annoying buzzer sound whenever someone is standing in the fire. This could be a level 1 through 30 thing. Surely that would help people not stand in the fire.