Class roles

This is just a quick post. We all know what DPS and tank mean and do, but the "support" role has changed a lot. Now, a support is just a healer with some buffs. Would a full support, like buff/debuff/CC class be viable in Ashes? It would be really nice, but although I love it, I understand it is a somehow niche class tpe. What do you think?

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Jahlon

Getting Steven to commit to an answer about he defines "support" as is something he hasn't wanted to do, as the classes are still being flushed out.

Bot

I'd hope support isn't just healing. I find healing classes to honestly be anti-fun. To compare to OW for example, playing something like Mercy is just incredibly boring whereas someone like Lucio or Zenyatta is incredibly fun imo. Makes support more of a proactive playmaker than just sit back and heal. Comparing to League of Legends, it's like Leona or Thresh versus just playing an enchanter/enchantress like Soraka or Nami.
I probably wouldn't play a support regardless unless it was very reasonable to play multiple classes without being a no life sweat, but if I did in an MMORPG setting I'd love to play a buff/debuff orientated support. Essentially just a utility machine where you can self-peel, peel for others, and make aggressively plays, but not due to having the ability to constantly full heal someone. Similar to a songbot in Archeage, but more fleshed out.

Damokles

I would say that Support encompasses everything from healing and buffs to auras and debuffs.
Bards would specialize mainly in different kinds of buffs/debuffs and mobile auras, while clerics specialize in healing and static auras.

mcstackerson

I'm not sure but I don't know if you should take what we saw too seriously. It makes sense that they made the heals strong to help things go smoothly.

JoraTenshi

Damokles wrote: »

I would say that Support encompasses everything from healing and buffs to auras and debuffs.
Bards would specialize mainly in different kinds of buffs/debuffs and mobile auras, while clerics specialize in healing and static auras.

I probably explained bad, but this is what I meant, kinda. I think healer and support are slighly different, but what I really wanted to say is this, that nos every support has to be a healer

Damokles

JoraTenshi wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

I would say that Support encompasses everything from healing and buffs to auras and debuffs.
Bards would specialize mainly in different kinds of buffs/debuffs and mobile auras, while clerics specialize in healing and static auras.

I probably explained bad, but this is what I meant, kinda. I think healer and support are slighly different, but what I really wanted to say is this, that nos every support has to be a healer

Yes, exactly. I think that people will be able to adjust their support to be what they want it to be.
I myself aim for a melee support build with Bard/Fighter or Bard/Rogue (maybe Bard/Tank).
I see no reason why you shoudnt be able to play as a full support with heals and buffs (Cleric/Bard or Bard/Cleric).

JoraTenshi

Damokles wrote: »

JoraTenshi wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

I would say that Support encompasses everything from healing and buffs to auras and debuffs.
Bards would specialize mainly in different kinds of buffs/debuffs and mobile auras, while clerics specialize in healing and static auras.

I probably explained bad, but this is what I meant, kinda. I think healer and support are slighly different, but what I really wanted to say is this, that nos every support has to be a healer

Yes, exactly. I think that people will be able to adjust their support to be what they want it to be.
I myself aim for a melee support build with Bard/Fighter or Bard/Rogue (maybe Bard/Tank).
I see no reason why you shoudnt be able to play as a full support with heals and buffs (Cleric/Bard or Bard/Cleric).

M idea was a more control oriented build, probably Bard/Bard, if that was the case of what I'm saying. it is just I'm tired of having just healers and not any control/buff-debuff oriented build. To be honest, the only class I've ever played that was like that is the LoreMaster in LotRO, and it would be nice to play a class like that again

Noaani

I know I talk about it a bit, but to me, the best game to look at in terms of what support offers is probably EQ2.

The game had 6 healers, none of which were considered support classes.

It also had 4 support classes, none of which had any heals.

In those support classes, you had a massive amount of buffing potential - some focused on defense, some on melee offense, some on magical offense. Some of the buffs were permanent, but all of the best buffs, the reason you would want these classes in your group or raid over more DPS, were all very powerful but short duration buffs, and with cooldowns usually twice as long as the duration (and often leaving the player you just cast it on with an immunity to that particular buff for an even longer duration).

The four support classes also contained all of the CC in that game that was of use outside of solo or small group situations (actually, just two of the four classes had this, but what ever).

That particular game didn't give the support classes much in the way of debuffs, as it spread them around all classes in the game - but I see no real reason why you couldn't have a support class focus on debuffing as well.

The other thing it didn't have was a support class that buffed up healers ability to heal, something I think could be good, but would perhaps be borderline useless outside of raids (groups usually only need one healer, and if one healer can handle the content, taking along a class that is focused on buffing that healer to heal even more is not overly useful).

To me, a support class in a game with tanks, healers and DPS needs to add enough to the group as a whole to be a better option to take - if available - than another DPS.

This last point is why support classes don't exist in games with smaller groups. If you have groups of 5, including a tank and a healer, the only way to make the support class worth taking is if it adds more than 50% additional damage to the remaining two DPS. If it adds less than that, it is not worth taking over another DPS.

Whereas in Ashes, with groups of 8, assuming content is still designed around one tank and one healer, that leaves 6 places left for DPS and support. If you have 5 DPS, that last spot is worth getting a support class in if they add only 20% more damage to the DPS classes, which is perfectly reasonable, viable and balanced.

Damokles

@noaani no game will ever beat the Chanter from the original Aion for me.

Ferryman

It depends what games people have played, but for me a support has not been a synonym for a healer, and I hope games would have more support class options which would be kind of the fourth role. I would like to play a support which main focus is to distract enemies in every possible way.

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