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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2020
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Also, if we are taking about the PvP , and this is very important, maybe the most important thing - it has to be linked to the PvE with a strong bond.

    What worries me about AOC is the idea of elected mayors who will take the decisions. The democracy is a great thing in the real life, and something that simply does not work in the video games. Most players will not vote, if there are not good rewards or fun action. Players are lazy, but also they are smart, they are ready to cheat, they will use every bug and flaw to get advantage. Most of them do not role play, they simply play a game. And they want to get the rewards by the fastest and the easiest way. They are ready to corrupt the game at every possible way in every possible moment.

    Also if you want a meaningful PvP, the guilds should be able to rule the objects they conquer. That means the guild leaders to make choices with consequences about things that affect the other players, like taxes, buildings, there should be some obligation to buy crops, if there are such, like to feed the conquered area. So the players to be motivated to PvP by the PvE.

    That is why I think the elections for mayors are terrible idea.
    You've clearly not been following Ashes very long.

    Ashes has meaningful PvP - just in a different way to what you are thinking. Guild rule is not the only way to have meaningful PvP, but it is the easiest way to add meaningful PvP to an existing game that doesn't have it.

    If you are making a game from the ground up, you can add meaningful PvP in to that game in a way where you could potentially even have members of the same guild on opposing sides.

    This is the route Ashes is going.

    Node sieges and caravans between them mean that Ashes will have more meaning behind PvP than any other MMO that I can think of.

    What isn't meaningful in Ashes though - is any form of 1v1 PvP. It is all essentially meaningless, and should remain essentially meaningless.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2020
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  • grisugrisu Member
    It's hard imo to compare. What's the most you get from owning territory in BDO? Money I guess and a reason to keep playing.
    Ashes nodes, as described provides any an all access to content and services. One node might lack what you want which gives a reason to initiate pvp.
    Citizenship superseed guildalligence, which makes sense imo, you make your home in a city, your claim, your profession, the city is basically your life while a guild "just" provides fellow adventurers with some goals that align.

    So if half of your members belong to a city and another half to a different city you will have to choose whether you participate in the siege or not if it comes to it. Guildhalls are cityspecific so it will probably be in your best interest to organize where you settle down as a group.
    Above is just there as an example.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2020
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  • grisugrisu Member
    I have been around for so long I just assume people know at least the very basics of what is provided with the very base systems and quite frankly, in this case one of THE selling points of the game. I'm not going through every single point of what guilds offer because that was not my point and I'm not getting sidetracked here.
    We have a wiki for that. https://ashesofcreation.wiki

    Point is it will be a different dynamic to what we are used too and it might be in your guilds lifespan interest to keep an eye on where you all settle.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
  • UnknownUnknown
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  • grisugrisu Member
    The tagging of mobs is as of yet, not finalized, so while I can't disregard the possibility of what you describe I can also say it isn't a certainty. We'll have to wait and see if they make the smart decision that works with their corruption system. If loot is shared for participants then it won't happen, if it's first tag it won't happen, if it's most damage only, well then it depends. I think they are smart enough to think about it, like the question that crept up some time ago "can you accidentally kill someone with aoe abilities and get corrupted" The answer is no, you won't .

    Being flagged for pvp isn't bad tho, you can just not kill the guy and just keep him low so he has to waste resources on healing himself. Can't really farm if he is low on hp all the time.

    Why so ever you just jump around different aspects that are not related is beyond me, looks like you are just looking for a reason to not play. To grab something from earlier, elections only happen in scientific nodes. The others have other means of election. Really makes me think you have only brushed most topics just to find flaws in the most shallow sense.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
  • WongWong Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    mrsynth wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    There won't be a playstyle. There will be main class - sub class FOTM and that's it.
    Nothing else.

    If you think IS intends to do nothing about balance then why did you even bother investing in the game’s future?

    Considering the amount of people asking for a DPS meters, I don't see any other way. It will happen, and the rest of the player base will follow.
    Cookie cutter builds will be there, and eventually it will permeate to the rest of the player base, and we all be running the same things if we are interested in doing some content.

    No that’s not even remotely what that means, unless you believe IS to be entirely incapable of developing varied content. Any guide you look at has caveats such as “built assuming raid support” or “can sub out this gear for that gear or that other gear for more sustain/defenses/etc” or “specifically for this boss” or “option A for more AoE, option B for higher single target”.

    Your issue apparently comes from your unique for-fun builds not being the most efficient. If it can clear content, you won’t be lacking for other more casual players to group with. Don’t blame your own personal issues and preferences on the players dedicated to making the most of the game.

    They've said that they will balance classes for group content and that every class will have a way to complete solo content, but that doesn't mean classes will be balanced for 1v1 situations which they have also said that they won't be. I don't remember exactly what they said about metas - something about flavor of the month is going around in my head.


    Classes shouldn’t be balanced for 1v1s, that’s how you get stale combat. But IS plan on having carousel balancing, adjustments from patch to patch so nothing is best in every situation for an extensive length of time.

    Their biggest balancing challenges are going to come from single-roll groups, and how they decide to address buff/healing/debuff/DoT stacking.

    None of this has any impact on your idea of “cookie cutter” builds based on generally good stats. There will be room for unique builds if you put in the effort and data crunching to make them work, but people who actually put in a lot of research and number crunching into developing accessible effective builds deserve praise whether they share those builds or not.

    Because at the end of the day, you can call a build “cookie cutter” or “unique” or “cheese” or “niche”, but everyone who made them put in the effort and research to make them work, and that deserves praise whether 5 people run their build or 500.

    In fact classes should be balanced for 1 vs 1. This is the most important balance. Also they should be balanced for party vs party, and for zerg vs zerg. But 1 vs 1 is above all. As if you have a good balance in 1 vs 1 then it is easier to reach the other balances. And there are different kinds of balance. For example you can balance the classes at the stone - paper way. It is easier than full par, and also makes more sense.

    There are basic rules to reach balance in a MMORPG, which often are broken. The characters with more defense, speed, and rangers should do less damage, as speed and distance are equal to defense. The AOE damage should be smaller than the straight damage. As AOE removes the need to target. The healers and buffers should be weaker, as they have additional defensive skills. The characters with higher damage should be slower or with less HP or defense, as the HP is equal to the defense. And etc. The core of creating a variety of balanced choices is to compensate every strength with equal weakness.

    I guess we disagree then. I like the idea of classes having counters, and you don't. At the end of the day though, that's what they have decided to do - at least for now.
    How do you balance a zerg vs zerg? How are both groups zergs if they are of similar or equal size? The point of a zerg is to overwhelm the enemy with numbers AND FAST. Having no fast travel makes this a bit hard.
  • WongWong Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    grisu wrote: »
    I have been around for so long I just assume people know at least the very basics of what is provided with the very base systems and quite frankly, in this case one of THE selling points of the game. I'm not going through every single point of what guilds offer because that was not my point and I'm not getting sidetracked here.
    We have a wiki for that. https://ashesofcreation.wiki

    Point is it will be a different dynamic to what we are used too and it might be in your guilds lifespan interest to keep an eye on where you all settle.

    I read it, and I can tell now, the corruption feature is completely broken. Let say, and it is a common case, some player kills another who grief and ks the mobs. Now let see how that PK penalty will work. The player who is flagged have the choice to die, or to die multiple times. So in fact the player who grief wins. I saw exactly the same feature in many games - L2 after GoD, L2 Classic, BDO and etc. In every game the result was death of OW PvP. Many players left cause they feel frustrated they cannot protect form griefers. And above all some players do intentional griefing. I call that feature the gank of the loser. And if this thing exists here, I will simply not play AOC, as I already played BDO - good looking, but terrible game.

    Tagging of mobs is considered griefing? Just go to another area or kill the 'griefer' then farm out the corruption. You are left with a choice, do you take it balls deep or do you give it. Both actions have concequences which is another one of the selling points of the game.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2020
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  • UnknownUnknown
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  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    mrsynth wrote: »

    Tagging of mobs is considered griefing? Just go to another area or kill the 'griefer' then farm out the corruption. You are left with a choice, do you take it balls deep or do you give it. Both actions have concequences which is another one of the selling points of the game.

    Well with the current system it does not work like that. If you kill nonflagged player, the best option is to suicide your character. And I wonder how long it will take before you start to hate the game that forces you to flee from every spot. Or how long it will take before you start to troll and grief other players. Both ways are bad.

    Unless you make a habit of killing non-combatants, corruption is not the end of the world for anyone.

    Ashes is a game that will be built for PvP at a group level, not an individual level. Open world PvP as you describe it sounds like toddlers throwing childish insults at each other, whereas PvP is being designed around meaningful contention points such as bosses, crafting materials locations, and node control.

    If someone wants to kill enemies in the same spot you are, you either share or try to fight them off. There are death penalties, chances are if they want that spot, they fight back and halve their death penalty (if they die) and you have no corruption. If they don’t fight back, you got the spot to yourself and they take double the death penalty of a combatant, while you gain a minor amount of corruption.

    If this person is a troll to everyone, they’ll end up an Enemy of the State and no one would get corruption from killing them. Not to mention that reputation will be exceptionally important in Ashes because you don’t get a group unless people want to group with you. Good luck doing that when everyone knows you as the infantile “yo momma” troll.
  • UnknownUnknown
    edited May 2020
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Ikcen wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    If they don’t fight back, you got the spot to yourself and they take double the death penalty of a combatant, while you gain a minor amount of corruption.

    Where you find that information. Because looks like a false claim.
    That information is somewhat common knowledge.

    If you are attacked by another player, that other player becomes a combatant. If you fight back, you become a combatant.

    If you are killed in PvP as a combatant, you suffer half the penalty you would if you are killed in PvP as a non-combatant.

    Please tell me you actually knew this common piece of information before you went on a tirade about how the corruption system in Ashes is the worst thing.

  • insomniainsomnia Member
    When it comes to the Rush ability for the warrior. Augmenting it so you teleport, if you pick mage as a secondary class, does sound cool and powerful. But perhaps some of the other augments are just changing sine damage to some elemental damage. While other secondary classes might not give just a good augment to the Rush ability, perhaps their augments are better for other abilities. I think we just have to wait and see. Yes it requires alot of work. Which also part of the reason why it is so stupid when people say the game won't come out. Intrepid have a shit load of stuff they want to make for the game. Also add in augments from race and religion and other places.
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