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Regarding monumental effects and their potential

Hey everyone! I'm new here and very enthusiastic for this game. When I lie in bed at night and brainstorm about the ultimate game, AoC is it. In RPG games I was always interested in summoner classes (don't know why). And when I looked at the different summoner classes that will be playable in this game I had a super geek moment.

I read the wiki and saw some very cool and exciting stuff:(

I know there is a feature called monumental effects (I'm just going to call it war rituals) where you gather 8 people of the same primary archetype to create a siege summon for example. But will there be monumental effects for more specialised classes? For example. Can I make a necromancer coven and perform a ritual with 8 necromancers to create a large group of undead to partake in a siege battle? And if so what kind of consequences can I expect? If the ritual is interrupted (by an enemy rogue division for example) can the undead turn feral and attack the summoners? Can 8 enchanters perform a ritual of enchanting and imbue their allied forces with temporary increased elemental resistance?

I think this would add a lot of depth to large scale combat. You would have 64 monumental effects that you need to account for during a siege. I think this would make every battle unpredictable and unique.

Furthermore what if you could use components in a ritual to influence the outcome of said ritual? What if a guild finds a very rare ritual component, by beating a raid boss for example, and uses it in their next siege to power a strong ritual?
Now defending guilds need to keep rare ingredients in reserve to power their own rituals in case the enemy launches a powerful ritual. Rogues now have an extra role in battle because they need to get behind enemy lines and make sure to interrupt the enemy ritual. People with high perception need to then defend their summoners (or other classes) from being attacked whilst they are performing a ritual etc. etc.

I might be getting ahead of myself but it's just so exciting when thinking of all the possibilities :)
When I see other MMO's large skill combat it usually comes down to who has the most numbers and highest regroup time. I think this might provide a path to solve this dreaded issue and allow for truly skilled and hard working groups to compete with a steamer and his hundreds of goons for example. What are your thoughts about this?

What I would like to know
What do you think about these ideas and monumental effects in general? How should they be implemented?
Are you interested in seeing these kinds of things in the game? Or do you think this would be a bad addition to the game?
What is your solution to large scale combat that is just about who has the most numbers?


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    Wandering MistWandering Mist Moderator, Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I've always considered those kinds of things kinda gimmicky, mostly because of how rare it would be to gather 8 summoners together just to cast a single spell. Also if you think that something like this would suddenly make large scale battles deep and strategic then you are in for a rude awakening. Large scale PvP has always been, and will always be, a chaotic clusterf*** where whichever side has the most number of players will usually win. Why? Because it's impossible to micro-manage more than 10-15 people, so strategy in these types of situations usually boils down to "go to point A" or "attack objective B". Anything more than simple orders like that will just be ignored.
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    AlexanderAlexander Member
    edited May 2020
    "I've always considered... just be ignored."

    I agree, certainly micro-management is incredibly hard to do in these kinds of scenarios. Which makes strategy nigh impossible to execute in any meaningful way. However I think this mostly applies to open field battles. When it comes to sieges I think there will be a lot of potential for options.

    I have heard intrepid studios talk about wanting to provide tools for guild leadership to help in managing guilds (This was however a bold statement :p timestamp 18:20)

    if this were to include a system where you can create divisions of members during combat I think that would go a long way in solving that problem. If you can then also give each division a "target" on their map with a command of what to achieve then you wouldn't need to micro manage. You just give orders to a division (maybe headed by a guild officer) and then the division set out to achieve said objective.

    Do you think that could be a possible solution?
    Bear in mind I have little experience in large scale battle. I'm not an MMO veteran. But is it really impossible to organise large groups in game? And if so could that be fixed with a system like that?

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    WizardTimWizardTim Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    IF you create and organize a guild specifically for war, I can see you routinely doing stuff like this.

    Make sure your guildies know exactly what your aims are when you make your guild and invite new initiates, don't mass invite random people (that never works out). Instill and maintain discipline by reminding members that all orders must be obeyed readily, etc.

    Honestly, the most fun I had in PvP were in serious high disciplined guilds in Planetsides 1 and 2. We routinely formed groups and played together in casual modes, and when the leader came on, we got serious and started rampaging across in "serious mode".

    I kind of want to make a guild exactly like that, but I have no experience actually leading a guild. I do better as a strategist officer than an actual leader, as I tend to treat everyone as equals and just expect people to do their job.
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    NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited May 2020
    The only use I can see for this kind of thing in PvE is when the developers create content specifically for it.

    In terms of PvP, I can see it being used as a distraction tactic quite effectively, but I would think that for actual full on open PvP it would be more useful having the 8 players doing their thing.

    In terms of managing large scale PvP, which seems to be the other direction in this thread, I've always found it easier to follow actual military thinking. I take the players I have and break them down in to smaller units - each able to function independently or in conjunction with other groups as needed, make sure they have a leader, and then issue those leaders orders. I try to keep these units to 5 or 6 players, but never go over 8.

    That way, instead of trying to command 60+ people in a PvP raid that may well be spread over 2 or more actual in game raids, I can simply issue orders to 8 - 10 people, and leave them to sort out the details. I'll occasionally leave myself with a few exceptional players that are outside of this system (people that are amazing players, but don't always work well in a team) and direct them to where they are likely to get the most kills (which usually happens to be where I need backup). If I have more than 100 players to manage, I'll break that down in to three larger groups, giving each of those groups a leader that then issues orders to group level leaders (I'll also always do this if I am attempting a pincer or ambush maneuver).

    I've found this works really well in any organized PvP, unless that PvP has individual objective based rewards - in which case you kind of need to keep everyone together so that everyone gets those rewards.
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