LieutenantToast wrote: »
Glorious Ashes community - it's time for another Dev Discussion! Dev Discussion topics are kind of like a "reverse Q&A" - rather than you asking us questions about Ashes of Creation, we want to ask YOU what your thoughts are.
Our design team has compiled a list of burning questions we'd love to get your feedback on regarding gameplay, your past MMO experiences, and more. Join in on the Dev Discussion and share what makes gaming special to you!Dev Discussion #19 - Dungeon Scaling
Should open world dungeons scale up in difficulty significantly as you go deeper (ex. level 30-50), or should the difficulty band of a given dungeon be more narrow from top to bottom (ex. level 45-50)?Keep an eye out for our next Dev Discussion topic regarding NPC behavior!
Highope wrote: »
For me it's the ability to be able to just jump in at anytime ie: Que for random small dungeons and auto join a random group rather then having to spend hours trying to find a group and eventually start disliking the game very fast.
Lots of rewarding quests for xp and items.
Grinding areas for expensive loot drops to make $ in a pvp zone.
I hated the gear score system it divides everything. "I like the old school way ok we know your gear sucks come run with us lets gear you up" rather then ah sorry your gs is too low no runs for you.
I loved leveling my gear and powering it up i hated so bad how it's very expensive to repair the armor it was quiet unfair and required way too much to do so "BDO" this is what made me quit the game grind for hours days to repair one armor and it doesn't repair the whole thing just a portion which made it so expensive and stressful this is suppose to be a game not a job. Point is materials should be not hard to get and the amount needed shouldn't be over crazy amount.
Check points at each nodes, cities you can fast travel flight to other check pointed explored node, cities.
fun themed dungeons & mobs rewarding in some way.
nanfoodle wrote: »
This the first time I feel like I want to weigh in on a subject since I backed this game. MMOs that including scaling are really looking to build community. The ability to team with any friend and any guildie is what MMOs should have always been about. Making content relevant not just for a few levels but for the entire life of the game. Now thats just a smart move. IMO, all content should scale and progression should become vertical at some point. So stater areas could all be somewhat easier to teach and level and all other areas of the game could be made at the same challenge skill level, making the entire game worth playing no matter how long you have been playing. In short, dont just make dungeons scale, make the game scale.
ardanza wrote: »
Just to add my 2 cents to the discussion:
- Based on node level, it would be neat if the dungeon "expanded" as the node level increased which aligns to the design of the world "growing" with more event triggers happening.
- New creatures/replaced creatures per node level on each floor
- As the dungeon "expands" due to node level increase, i would have that expansion area contain higher level mobs, instead of dungeons level 40-45 throughout the whole thing. The deeper you go, the stronger they get.
- This enables more exploration and a reason to revisit a particular area when a user becomes better geared (if necessary)
- with each "floor" of a dungeon, let there be a REASON to complete dungeon floors 1, 2, 3, etc. Risk vs. Reward for each floor based on node level
I think it would be pretty cool to go to a dungeon at level 10, clear it with a node stage level 1, nothing but goblins and a goblin chief boss, only to come back later when node is stage level 5 and see that walls have fallen inside the dungeon that a horde of demons came sprawling out to claim the dungeon for themselves, annihilating the left over goblins hiding in the corners of the cave from the adventurers who have killed many of them. Delve to the deepest parts of the dungeon only to find the demons were controlled by an ancient undead dragon or necromancer who has signed a pack with the devil himself. Maybe even have those goblins retreat to the nearby forest after being expunged by the demons and a small camp is now located in that area who performs raids on caravans travelling through the area now; what was once a safe passage is now dangerous..
So far, most of the development around the game has been about a uniquely expanding world that changes with node levels, why not keep the dungeons aligned with the same principles?
Marovec Vralt wrote: »
So, when I initially saw the discussion title, I thought you meant dungeons that scaled to your level - which I am a huge fan of, for a number of reasons. However, that's not what you are asking about, so I had to adjust...
In terms of the scaling you are talking about, in open world dungeons, I am fan...conceptually. I think there is a lot of potential for fun, in a certain MMO built a certain way.
Unfortunately, I don't think AoC is structured in a way that will make that type of scaling effective. Here's a couple thoughts as to why:
- First and foremost, blending level ranges will end up being inconvenient for everyone.
The higher levels will be forced to chew through the low level stuff to get where they want, resulting in the lower levels not being able to have things to fight, because it was mopped up as "trash". Higher levels get an annoying "trash clear" (that no one likes), and low levels have to compete with the high levels to get the stuff that is relevant to them.
- "Reward" balancing.
In order to make it relevant for all parties, there has to be relevant reward. This ties into the first part in that you are either making the low levels compete against the high levels for rewards (which seems inherently imbalanced - I don't image they would be able to), or you are simply wasting the higher level's time by making them wade through stuff that has no value to them.
I don't know that this is going to be unique to this particular system, but mixing high and low levels seems like it would encourage higher levels preying on low levels. Granted, I am not 100% familiar with all the intricacies of the PvP system, so this may either not be an issue at all, or be an issue in any open world dungeon, regardless of the level ranges.
- "Wing" based, instead of scaling
One way to work around the issue of "scaling", or mixing the level ranges, is that instead of having the difficulty scale as you go further in, you have "wings" or areas of the dungeon that branch off a central hub.
As an example, once you get in to a certain point, you go "left" for level 30-35 content, or go "right" for the 35-40 content.
This keeps the level range in which people are interested in the "zone" wider, and limits people just abandoning a dungeon/zone just because they outleveled it. It also keeps people from wasting their time in content they outlevel and removes the need to make all content relevant to all people in the overall range. This could be built on to have even more "wings" with various level ranges.
Frankly, that is the only solution I can see that would work with AoC. Any other suggestions, such as overall level scaling, individual scaling rewards, dungeon buffs, etc. all rely on game mechanics and design that I don't think would be effective in AoC.
So, long story longer - while I like the idea, I don't see how it could be implemented into AoC in a way that is effective and respects the general vision of the game. I think it would create more problems than it would potentially fix, and end up as something that is an overall negative, instead of a positive.
Unless you want to do some type over overall character scaling per zone a la ESO, or other games out there, in which case that opens up a whole other can of worms.
The higher levels will be forced to chew through the low level stuff to get where they want
there has to be relevant reward
but mixing high and low levels seems like it would encourage higher levels preying on low levels