Warlocks and Masters

kyraku

Hi, i was interested in some more information regarding the warlock subclass, specifically referring to the warlocks sponsor.

Will the warlocks sponsor be an outside entity such as a demon, old god, primordial entity or perhaps one of the new gods of Vera?
Are the warlocks sponsors all required to be evil? can one of the 'good' old ones be a sponsor?
Will there be some sort of shortish quest line in contacting said sponsor?
Will the warlocks sponsor require the warlock to do things for it from time to time. Such as some random murder, destruction etc if the sponsor is a demon or something more suitable depending on the motives of the entity giving the warlock its power?

Related. Will there be planar travel? Astral, Elemental? Celestial or Abyssal?

Thanks all..

Wandering Mist

By "sponsor" I assume you mean whatever creature they summon right? Or are you talking about something else that I'm not aware of?

Anyway, the "warlock" is just a Mage with a Summoner secondary class, meaning the augments it has access to will be summoner-related. That is pretty much all we know for now. There will no doubt be augments related to the Gods of Verra but our knowledge of the game lore is so little at this point that we don't know exactly what that would entail.

George_Black

This is why I am afraid of this class system.

In order to achieve the illusion of endless gameplays, many classes with true identity based on video games like Warlock or Necromancer will be just a title.

If that is the case when we get to see the classes, I hope the community will open a discussion on if there should more than 8 fixed classes, maybe 12-15 or so, with true abilities and animations to fit their theme, rather that 64 'classes' with augmentations.

I fail to see how the system of augmentations will make a necro feel like a necro, a warlock a warlock and so many others.

As I will play a warrior, I am not too afraid for my playstyle being portraited properly, but many of my friends are very anxious.

kyraku

hmm.. no. I know some of the developers here are D&D players. In D&D warlocks have an entity that gives them their power some entity like a demon usually but can be something else. They arent really like the other casters in that regard. I guess i was just wondering if they were just going to go down the route like the other mmorpg's in that the lock is really just a caster with a pet or something else entirely.

Jamation

We don't have a lot of information on the specifics of primary classes, let alone almost no information on secondary classes. So not a whole lot can be answered on your questions. However, according to the wiki:

Early in the creation of the Universe the pantheon of gods was split. Some gods influence the corrupt side of beings that exist in the Universe. It is possible through questing and player decision to join or worship those gods.[6]
It is possible for some story lines to relate to a darker/evil path, if a character should choose.

So If there are things such as sponsors I don't think you'll be forced to go down the good or evil route.

Wandering Mist

George Black wrote: »

This is why I am afraid of this class system.

In order to achieve the illusion of endless gameplays, many classes with true identity based on video games like Warlock or Necromancer will be just a title.

If that is the case when we get to see the classes, I hope the community will open a discussion on if there should more than 8 fixed classes, maybe 12-15 or so, with true abilities and animations to fit their theme, rather that 64 'classes' with augmentations.

I fail to see how the system of augmentations will make a necro feel like a necro, a warlock a warlock and so many others.

As I will play a warrior, I am not too afraid for my playstyle being portraited properly, but many of my friends are very anxious.

This is where I believe Intrepid has dropped the ball when it comes to classes and class design. By giving every class combination a specific name you imply that there are 64 different classes in the game, which isn't true at all. There are 8 classes and then a bunch of augmentations based on your secondary class. Those are 2 totally different things.

On top of that, when you start naming things like this you put ideas into the player's heads and the imaginations go wild, as shown in this very thread. The moment you say "you can be a Warlock", people think of the stereotypical Warlock and they will no doubt be disappointed in what they actually get.

The whole naming thing that Intrepid has gone for produces unrealistic expectations in the minds of the players and will inevitably cause backlash later on once the full class design system is shown in action.

Talents

Wandering Mist wrote: »

The whole naming thing that Intrepid has gone for produces unrealistic expectations in the minds of the players and will inevitably cause backlash later on once the full class design system is shown in action.

Yep, this 100%. Because classes are named "Shadow Lord" or "Blade Caller" or whatever, so many people are gonna think these classes names are literal when they're not. When A2 comes around and we get access to these I'm 100% expecting so many people to start crying on forums and discord about how the classes are just slightly different versions of the base archetype because of augments and not entirely different classes with every one having unique abilities.

bloodprophet

This is where I believe Intrepid has dropped the ball when it comes to classes and class design. By giving every class combination a specific name you imply that there are 64 different classes in the game, which isn't true at all. There are 8 classes and then a bunch of augmentations based on your secondary class. Those are 2 totally different things.

This has been a thing since they gave out the list. I get why they did it but I think it added a lot of confusion.
There are only 8 classes.
I think of it more like coffee. I like my coffee with more coffee(mage/mage) some like it with sugar (mage/cleric). Some prefer tea with more tea (tank/tank). Some people like sugar in their tea (tank/cleric). Regardless of your personal preference what ever you add to your coffee it is still coffee just has a slightly different flavor. The classes here will be the same adding mage as a secondary to tank it is still a tank just plays a little different then a tank/fighter will. Giving that class combo a name adds to the diversity of the world and characters but does not make it a new class.

tugowar

Yes, but who in the world prefers coffee with Tea (mage/tank)?

Atama

kyraku wrote: »

hmm.. no. I know some of the developers here are D&D players. In D&D warlocks have an entity that gives them their power some entity like a demon usually but can be something else. They arent really like the other casters in that regard. I guess i was just wondering if they were just going to go down the route like the other mmorpg's in that the lock is really just a caster with a pet or something else entirely.

There are only 8 classes, no matter what the developers are calling things. You can combine one class with a second class (including itself; you can be a Mage/Mage and be super-duper Magey). When you take on a subclass, you are just slightly tweaking your abilities. Not enough to make it a new class, but just enough to make things feel a bit different. At least that’s what we are led to believe, since this system actually isn’t in place yet to test; we don’t even have any real details on how it’ll work yet.

So, yeah, a Warlock is just a Mage with some Summoner flavoring sprinkled on. You’re not transforming into a D&D Warlock. The example Steven gave (he’s the game’s main creator) is that if a Mage casts a fireball spell that explodes in an area effect, then a Warlock using that same spell might instead summon a fire elemental that attacks enemies. The end effect is mostly the same (you do fire damage to a group of enemies) but it looks and works a bit differently.

lunarsky

As others have said we do not have enough information at this point to determine how Warlock will work. I highly doubt it would be that fleshed out in the current 64 class system. For the exact reasons people above have stated as the second class just augments the primary.

I, for one, would be perfectly OK with Intrepid just streamlining the classes down to far less than 64 and fleshing them out so they feel distinct. Leave the 8 archetypes but then add some other classic classes like Necromancer, Warlock, Paladin, Druid, Death Knight, and Enchanter (EQ2 type CC class)

That way they could still give skills unique flavors that make result in different types of playstyles like a heavy DoT based Necro versus an undead army type Necro but a necromancer doesn't feel like just a mage with green fire versus orange fire.

I haven't had a chance to play yet so I'll try and stay optimistic about it but I''m not seeing many advantages to augments vs more fleshed out and distinct classes.

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Atama

Tsukasa wrote: »

No dark & evil pls. Be creative.

There will be Skill FX cosmetics to change the color of the skills to accommodate a certain theme, like in League of Legends. However not sure how the summons will be affected by it. Wouldn't want a demon as a summon in holy-themed Skill FX, obviously.

Why not? Call the summons a “Hell’s Angel”.

insomnia

When it comes to the summoner, it will have to do with what they summon. A necromancer i can emagine will summon undead

Unknown

This content has been removed.

Noaani

Tsukasa wrote: »

Warlock however, Mage/Summoner can be anything.

Agreed.

EQ2's warlock was a disease and poison based AoE damage dealer.

I would say the only real restriction on what a warlock should be is that it should be a "darker" spell caster, but not one that deals with the dead. Demons, disease, poison - these are the things that should be in a warlocks purview as far as I am concerned, in the same way ice and fire should be the purview of a wizard.

However, while I think the class should have these things as it's base, that doesn't dictate the relationship the warlock has with them. Rather than warlocks having a master, I think it would be interesting if they summoned demons and such in a similar way to how summoning works (lore wise, not mechanics wise) in Elder Scrolls games - make the warlock the master of the interaction.

Atama

Maybe it’s not necessarily even demons the Warlock summons, but just elementals (sentient representations of Mage spells) that they can conjure and dominate for a short time. That sort of thing seems in-theme without needing to make it completely infernal. And Steven’s example, again, was a fire elemental, not a demon. (That being said, his example may have been an off-the-cuff example, not the real plan, or may be subject to change.)

blindrage

hello, I have been looking at the classes on wikki. I have been playing mmo's for a long time and have always loved a mage class that uses DOTs to subdue their opponent and has a form of life steal, which is usually the warlock. My question is there going to be a mage class like that in AOC ?

Atama

blindrage wrote: »

hello, I have been looking at the classes on wikki. I have been playing mmo's for a long time and have always loved a mage class that uses DOTs to subdue their opponent and has a form of life steal, which is usually the warlock. My question is there going to be a mage class like that in AOC ?

I’m guessing that if mages can do that then any mage class can do that. There might be one of the subclasses that do it better but I would bet that any mage can do it if they focus on the right skills.

Please remember the game is very early in development, it’s barely into Alpha stage. We don’t know any details about any classes, period. And even if we did, it is so early that anything we know can change.

You probably have to wait a year or more to get a real answer to your question.

Hurf Derfman

tugowar wrote: »

Yes, but who in the world prefers coffee with Tea (mage/tank)?

Kopi Cham?

Hurf Derfman

blindrage wrote: »

hello, I have been looking at the classes on wikki. I have been playing mmo's for a long time and have always loved a mage class that uses DOTs to subdue their opponent and has a form of life steal, which is usually the warlock. My question is there going to be a mage class like that in AOC ?

Life steal mechanics will likely be associated with cleric taken as a secondary.

Mage/Cleric is called Acolyte

I would assume life augments lead to a Chloromancer (damage providing limited group healing) play style, where death augments lead to a WoW Warlock/Shadow Priest. So damage would heal you as opposed to the group.

Just because the base skills of the mage do not provide any dots, does not mean that augmenting spells couldn't transform a fireball into a blast if nature damage that now heals nearby targets or change the damage type of the laser beam from force to shadow and heal you for x% of the damage it deals. Unfortunately this just speculation at this point since there is literally no info available in the subject.

Dreoh

I definitely think people are being hyperbolic about class names in here. Sure there are some people who take things out of context, but those people are going to do that regardless.

Once there's bountiful information about the game, classes and abilities these misconceptions won't be a real issue.

We're only having this discussion right now because 90% of everything is currently a mystery.

I definitely disagree with the notion that these class names come with too much baggage. Even if the class they represent carries just the bare minimum of their "essence" so to speak, it's not wrong to declare them as that class. It's only because we don't have perspective on the strengths of the combined classes that we see the baggage as being too much. If every single or most "RPG-traditional" class in the class list is a muted version of itself, then nobody is going to feel disappointed because it will be similar in power to the others. It's like Syndrome's saying, "If every class is a dumbed down version, then none of them are".

LowQuey

Wandering Mist wrote: »

George Black wrote: »

This is why I am afraid of this class system.

In order to achieve the illusion of endless gameplays, many classes with true identity based on video games like Warlock or Necromancer will be just a title.

If that is the case when we get to see the classes, I hope the community will open a discussion on if there should more than 8 fixed classes, maybe 12-15 or so, with true abilities and animations to fit their theme, rather that 64 'classes' with augmentations.

I fail to see how the system of augmentations will make a necro feel like a necro, a warlock a warlock and so many others.

As I will play a warrior, I am not too afraid for my playstyle being portraited properly, but many of my friends are very anxious.

This is where I believe Intrepid has dropped the ball when it comes to classes and class design. By giving every class combination a specific name you imply that there are 64 different classes in the game, which isn't true at all. There are 8 classes and then a bunch of augmentations based on your secondary class. Those are 2 totally different things.

On top of that, when you start naming things like this you put ideas into the player's heads and the imaginations go wild, as shown in this very thread. The moment you say "you can be a Warlock", people think of the stereotypical Warlock and they will no doubt be disappointed in what they actually get.

The whole naming thing that Intrepid has gone for produces unrealistic expectations in the minds of the players and will inevitably cause backlash later on once the full class design system is shown in action.

That depends entirely on how the augments work. For example as a rogue I'm going to stealth up behind someone and stab them. But if I go ranger secondary my abilities might have an augment that allows them to be used at range. Suddenly the entire way I play mu character and class is fundamentally different from a rogue.