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Power-Scaling Snowball Effect

UnhappyTacoUnhappyTaco Member, Alpha Two
in General Discussion
Not sure if this has been discussed before, tried looking up keywords for this but was unsuccessful. It is my understanding that for events and other activities the rewards will be based off of performance, better you do better the rewards. That being said is there a balance or system in place to prevent those who perform well from being too overpowered. For example, they are skilled and perform well to get good gear, then because of the new gear and skill they get even better gear, thus creating a snowball effect of power. Yes, they should be rewarded for they skill and consistent performance, but will it effect causal players. In the sense that those at the top suppress those in the middle/bottom because those in the middle/bottom won't be able to challenge them in strength. I see this bleeding over more towards guilds and nodes, where the bigger more powerful guilds/nodes dominate and there is no back and fourth. Also, I see this as more of a concern when the game has been out for awhile and nodes/guilds are developed.

Comments

  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    UnhappyTaco wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been discussed before, tried looking up keywords for this but was unsuccessful. It is my understanding that for events and other activities the rewards will be based off of performance, better you do better the rewards. That being said is there a balance or system in place to prevent those who perform well from being too overpowered. For example, they are skilled and perform well to get good gear, then because of the new gear and skill they get even better gear, thus creating a snowball effect of power. Yes, they should be rewarded for they skill and consistent performance, but will it effect causal players. In the sense that those at the top suppress those in the middle/bottom because those in the middle/bottom won't be able to challenge them in strength. I see this bleeding over more towards guilds and nodes, where the bigger more powerful guilds/nodes dominate and there is no back and fourth. Also, I see this as more of a concern when the game has been out for awhile and nodes/guilds are developed.

    hardcore and better players are supposed to dominate. that is something they deserve to do for putting in that much work.
    this sort of mindset of 'some people have to lose' has been voiced very frequently recently. players will not get their hand's held, however the large number of casual players even if they dont have the same gear as the hardcore will be able to use the pressure of numbers to oppose those guilds.

    if you want change, you must fight for it. pvp is THE catalyst of change within the game. if you cannot compete with the top bracket, you don't have a reason to compare with them.
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    I don't see any problem with the scenario you described.

    If you only play casually, you won't be as accomplished as people who play more than you. That is the nature of an MMO, unfortunately.

    But that isn't to say casual players will have no place. You can do whatever it is they did, and get those great things too, you just might not get there as quickly as they did... and there are also alternative paths to success.

    If you can only devote a small time each day to playing, then you could focus on your profession/shop/whatever, even just being social/politics. All of those avenues are rewarding, often times much more rewarding, than just going out and fighting things.. At least in my experience of similar games.

    The devs have said they want to cater to a wide variety of playstyles. Not just PvE raiders.
    And it won't be the awful loot system from WoW that may have traumatised you. I honestly doubt you will be forced to grind all day, for months, while praying to RNGesus for that 'drop' you wanted. They've said the best things will be player made from mats, and that almost nothing is bind on pickup... So you will always be able to chip away at that mat requirement, or the cost in gold for the mats/item, or whatever.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    hazardnumberseven wrote: »
    I don't see any problem with the scenario you described.

    If you only play casually, you won't be as accomplished as people who play more than you. That is the nature of an MMO, unfortunately.

    But that isn't to say casual players will have no place. You can do whatever it is they did, and get those great things too, you just might not get there as quickly as they did... and there are also alternative paths to success.

    If you can only devote a small time each day to playing, then you could focus on your profession/shop/whatever, even just being social/politics. All of those avenues are rewarding, often times much more rewarding, than just going out and fighting things.. At least in my experience of similar games.

    The devs have said they want to cater to a wide variety of playstyles. Not just PvE raiders.
    And it won't be the awful loot system from WoW that may have traumatised you. I honestly doubt you will be forced to grind all day, for months, while praying to RNGesus for that 'drop' you wanted. They've said the best things will be player made from mats, and that almost nothing is bind on pickup... So you will always be able to chip away at that mat requirement, or the cost in gold for the mats/item, or whatever.
    If getting the best raid gear is easy then it’s not pvx it’s pvp with some raids tosses in. In order for it to be pvx the pve must also be rewarding not just something you do a couple times to be better at Pvp
  • LafiLafi Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    hazardnumberseven wrote: »
    I don't see any problem with the scenario you described.

    If you only play casually, you won't be as accomplished as people who play more than you. That is the nature of an MMO, unfortunately.

    But that isn't to say casual players will have no place. You can do whatever it is they did, and get those great things too, you just might not get there as quickly as they did... and there are also alternative paths to success.

    If you can only devote a small time each day to playing, then you could focus on your profession/shop/whatever, even just being social/politics. All of those avenues are rewarding, often times much more rewarding, than just going out and fighting things.. At least in my experience of similar games.

    The devs have said they want to cater to a wide variety of playstyles. Not just PvE raiders.
    And it won't be the awful loot system from WoW that may have traumatised you. I honestly doubt you will be forced to grind all day, for months, while praying to RNGesus for that 'drop' you wanted. They've said the best things will be player made from mats, and that almost nothing is bind on pickup... So you will always be able to chip away at that mat requirement, or the cost in gold for the mats/item, or whatever.
    If getting the best raid gear is easy then it’s not pvx it’s pvp with some raids tosses in. In order for it to be pvx the pve must also be rewarding not just something you do a couple times to be better at Pvp

    PvE is how you get the best gear, and you won't get it from the first or 2nd attempt unless you're insanely lucky. furthermore the drop rates for staight gear is going to be far lower, than say a crafting material that can be used to create gear of the same tier and quality of the raid drop. You then need to do a range of other pve content to gather other crafting materials to finish the craft of that piece or you can grind for the RNG straight drop.
    Furthermore with the caravan system and the node system working hand in hand, you can end up making a large amount of money from PvE because of the multipliers from selling the trash drops at a further away node.
    its a PvX game :)
    Twitch.tv/Lafidell
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    hazardnumberseven wrote: »
    I don't see any problem with the scenario you described.

    If you only play casually, you won't be as accomplished as people who play more than you. That is the nature of an MMO, unfortunately.

    But that isn't to say casual players will have no place. You can do whatever it is they did, and get those great things too, you just might not get there as quickly as they did... and there are also alternative paths to success.

    If you can only devote a small time each day to playing, then you could focus on your profession/shop/whatever, even just being social/politics. All of those avenues are rewarding, often times much more rewarding, than just going out and fighting things.. At least in my experience of similar games.

    The devs have said they want to cater to a wide variety of playstyles. Not just PvE raiders.
    And it won't be the awful loot system from WoW that may have traumatised you. I honestly doubt you will be forced to grind all day, for months, while praying to RNGesus for that 'drop' you wanted. They've said the best things will be player made from mats, and that almost nothing is bind on pickup... So you will always be able to chip away at that mat requirement, or the cost in gold for the mats/item, or whatever.
    If getting the best raid gear is easy then it’s not pvx it’s pvp with some raids tosses in. In order for it to be pvx the pve must also be rewarding not just something you do a couple times to be better at Pvp

    It won't be easy.
  • UnhappyTacoUnhappyTaco Member, Alpha Two
    Lafi wrote: »
    UnhappyTaco wrote: »
    Not sure if this has been discussed before, tried looking up keywords for this but was unsuccessful. It is my understanding that for events and other activities the rewards will be based off of performance, better you do better the rewards. That being said is there a balance or system in place to prevent those who perform well from being too overpowered. For example, they are skilled and perform well to get good gear, then because of the new gear and skill they get even better gear, thus creating a snowball effect of power. Yes, they should be rewarded for they skill and consistent performance, but will it effect causal players. In the sense that those at the top suppress those in the middle/bottom because those in the middle/bottom won't be able to challenge them in strength. I see this bleeding over more towards guilds and nodes, where the bigger more powerful guilds/nodes dominate and there is no back and fourth. Also, I see this as more of a concern when the game has been out for awhile and nodes/guilds are developed.

    hardcore and better players are supposed to dominate. that is something they deserve to do for putting in that much work.
    this sort of mindset of 'some people have to lose' has been voiced very frequently recently. players will not get their hand's held, however the large number of casual players even if they dont have the same gear as the hardcore will be able to use the pressure of numbers to oppose those guilds.

    if you want change, you must fight for it. pvp is THE catalyst of change within the game. if you cannot compete with the top bracket, you don't have a reason to compare with them.

    Agreed that pvp is the catalyst of change, but as one node grows another gets weaker. And based on what I understand in order to access better resources and gear you need to grow the node. But if one is stronger continuously grows, will the smaller ones be able to compete and grow still?
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Nodes can't grow past their parent node so if your node is under a metro (lvl 6). Your node can only get to level 5.

    Just because you aren't a part of the node that is getting stronger doesn't mean you don't have access to the resources that show up around it. Nodes change the world around them so you can still go to the higher level node even if you are not a part of it.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    mcstackerson wrote: »
    Nodes can't grow past their parent node so if your node is under a metro (lvl 6). Your node can only get to level 5.

    Just because you aren't a part of the node that is getting stronger doesn't mean you don't have access to the resources that show up around it. Nodes change the world around them so you can still go to the higher level node even if you are not a part of it.

    But if you want the raid next to it unless you can get people to destroy the parent node you will never get to see any of the things next to it at max as the higher node next to it will stop you unless its destroyed
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Aardvark wrote: »
    mcstackerson wrote: »
    Nodes can't grow past their parent node so if your node is under a metro (lvl 6). Your node can only get to level 5.

    Just because you aren't a part of the node that is getting stronger doesn't mean you don't have access to the resources that show up around it. Nodes change the world around them so you can still go to the higher level node even if you are not a part of it.

    But if you want the raid next to it unless you can get people to destroy the parent node you will never get to see any of the things next to it at max as the higher node next to it will stop you unless its destroyed

    Unless i have missed some information (very possible), I don't think there is anything stopping you from going to the raid that is around the higher level node. At least the node's existence is not stopping you, the people who live in the node might want to try.

    Yes, if you want the raid around your node, you will need to destroy that node so make some friends.
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