Keith wrote: » In a interview with a popular twitch personality Steven said that the differential in power at the most extreme ends(I'm assuming this is between two level 50's) will be 50%. Progression is obviously necessary and more time investment should mean more power. I'm not against this, however if im defending a node and i hit someone and they take 15% damage and then they do their spell and i'm toast. This will not be enjoyable for the casual player base. Casual players will be the largest audience, games that focused too much on hardcore players went under. I understand AOC is a unique game and cant really be compared to the failured of other hardcore MMO's but there is no doubt this IS A HARDCORE GAME. I mean anyone that wants to say this is casual is out of their mind. Just the idea of losing ur resources u gathered because you lost a battle is super hardcore for an MMO. This is a sandbox MMO as far as I can tell and i dont think MMO players necessarily want the reward/risk nature of sandbox survival games. I'm simply expressing my concerns, I get that steven is a hardcore lineage or Archage player but i think that ship has sailed. MMO pve players dont like pvp and wont like to be forced to fight a pvp battle to earn the rights to fight a dragon. I myself prefer the hardcore nature of the game, I want mobs to do random moves I want the game to b difficult, i'm okay with the whole concept of the game. So I'm not speaking out of bias, i'm just really concerned about whether AOC is overestimating the demand for such a hardcore MMO and whether it can placate the casual mmo audience while remaining a risk/reward sandbox survival style MMO.
Keith wrote: » There is not a single MMO out there where the PvP community is healthy none of them could run their game on the PvP community alone. They all make their money from the casual PVE playerbase. Unless there is a game im unaware of.
Keith wrote: » i'm just really concerned about whether AOC is overestimating the demand for such a hardcore MMO and whether it can placate the casual mmo audience while remaining a risk/reward sandbox survival style MMO.
Keith wrote: » I disagree with that, nobody wants to feel uselss to the point where they shouldnt even bother defending their node.
Keith wrote: » noaani wrote: » Keith wrote: » I disagree with that, nobody wants to feel uselss to the point where they shouldnt even bother defending their node. 50% difference is not enough to make anyone feel useless. As has been said, most games have this at ten times that amount. The point of Steven saying that was to appease players that don't want to feel useless - as it would mean Ashes provides players with literally the least amount of post level cap progression of any MMO on the market. Which means there is no scope for peopel to feel useless. I wasnt referring to my initial 50% number. My comment was to your feeling that 50% is hardly enough to feel a difference which I assume means u want it to be much higher.
noaani wrote: » Keith wrote: » I disagree with that, nobody wants to feel uselss to the point where they shouldnt even bother defending their node. 50% difference is not enough to make anyone feel useless. As has been said, most games have this at ten times that amount. The point of Steven saying that was to appease players that don't want to feel useless - as it would mean Ashes provides players with literally the least amount of post level cap progression of any MMO on the market. Which means there is no scope for peopel to feel useless.
Keith wrote: » BTW a question for anyone reading, the character costume u get for the 375$ am i understanding the subtext that this will be gone sometime next month and a new one will replace it?
noaani wrote: » You can't have raid progression without gear progression. Without gear progression, players will just be able to step right in to the end of what should be the raid progression, which means that raid progression was in fact not a progression at all.
RahkstarRPG wrote: » noaani wrote: » You can't have raid progression without gear progression. Without gear progression, players will just be able to step right in to the end of what should be the raid progression, which means that raid progression was in fact not a progression at all. I've never really understood this sentiment. Skill progression is a real thing too. I seriously doubt if you gave every WoW player mythic-level gear they'd suddenly all be able to clear mythic-level content. The amount of personal skill, coordination, and dedication required to clear that content is as much a factor if not more than gear treadmill walls, imo.
noaani wrote: » I've only ever done mythic level raiding in WoW, I didn't even level the character I used myself - it is my brothers account. While WoW is not an overly good game to use as an example in this context due to it's low skill level over all, it absolutely is possible for a player that hasn't even played the game to take a geared out character and play it successfully in mythic raiding in WoW.
RahkstarRPG wrote: » noaani wrote: » I've only ever done mythic level raiding in WoW, I didn't even level the character I used myself - it is my brothers account. While WoW is not an overly good game to use as an example in this context due to it's low skill level over all, it absolutely is possible for a player that hasn't even played the game to take a geared out character and play it successfully in mythic raiding in WoW. Some players, sure. Some players have skill but don't have the time required to invest in gearing a character. However, I would say that they are the vast minority of players. I'm also curious what games you would posit have more difficult raiding environments than mythic-level WoW raids. The raid environment in the MMO market at large has pretty much dried up as far as I'm aware.
RahkstarRPG wrote: » I'm also curious what games you would posit have more difficult raiding environments than mythic-level WoW raids. The raid environment in the MMO market at large has pretty much dried up as far as I'm aware.
hazardnumberseven wrote: » What we find difficult is pretty subjective. I for one do not find raids like in WoW difficult, not in classic and not in retail. To me it's just a matter of having good enough gear and following the instructions/mechanics.
hazardnumberseven wrote: » I just don't see 'gear progression' as actual progression. Raiding tends to have very little to do with skill and everything to do with your gear, and then you do that repeatedly to get the gear which makes the content trivial, then soon a new patch comes out so you can delete all your gear. I know this is the popular trend, but I hate it, and am incredibly bored by it. It just makes me not want to invest any time into the game, because there is no sense of progression or accomplishment, for me. Nothing I do matters because it will just be vendor trash soon.
noaani wrote: » hazardnumberseven wrote: » What we find difficult is pretty subjective. I for one do not find raids like in WoW difficult, not in classic and not in retail. To me it's just a matter of having good enough gear and following the instructions/mechanics. Oh, I agree, I don't find WoW raids even slightly interesting. Nothing about the game is. EQ2 and Rift are the only games that have had raid content that I have considered worth playing, and even then, Rift only just scrapes by. hazardnumberseven wrote: » I just don't see 'gear progression' as actual progression. Raiding tends to have very little to do with skill and everything to do with your gear, and then you do that repeatedly to get the gear which makes the content trivial, then soon a new patch comes out so you can delete all your gear. I know this is the popular trend, but I hate it, and am incredibly bored by it. It just makes me not want to invest any time into the game, because there is no sense of progression or accomplishment, for me. Nothing I do matters because it will just be vendor trash soon. This only applies to WoW raiding. WoW requires no skill, raiding in other games (some other games) does. Same with gear progression, most games don't simply neutralize the progression from the last content cycle as soon as the next one comes in - I have items that I got from EQ2 raids in 2007 that are still sought after in that game now. Gear progression isn't about making content you have already killed easier, it is about making content you are about to kill possible. Rather than being the reward that many players think gear is, gear is actually a key to the next lot of content.
