Discussion on Trade, Resources, and Crafting
Zyke
Member
Hey everyone, these are some thoughts I had recently after listening to the latest interviews that have come out, and I was hoping to get a discussion about it going; or, if these have already been answered and I just haven't seen it, please let me know.
Trade and Resource Diversity:
I recently read some information and heard in the various interviews about the caravan system and the incentives to move different types of resources from one node to another. It sounds like, if I understood it correctly - that it's largely artificial drivers that create a supply/demand element by NPC's, so that a caravan of loot from one region sells more in another, taking into account factors like distance and scarcity. This seems like a great system but sounds like it's largely driven by an artificial algorithm reacting to the players actions, rather than driven by the players themselves.
My question however is to wonder if there are going to be any more natural trade incentives driving players to create caravans other than selling loot. For example, are there going to be crafting/building resources that are more scarce in one region and plentiful in another? Will a mountainous region have more access to stone and less to wood, while a forested area would be the opposite?
Similarly, aside from the rarity of a resource being a higher 'tier' and required for higher level gear, are there going to be variations of the same type of resource that are good for different things? As a completely made-up example; the wood found in region A grants HP bonuses when used to build the hull of ships, while region B has wood that gives bonuses to the range of siege weapons built with it, and region C has wood that creates sturdier buildings. I haven't found any information pertaining to these questions and I'm curious if it's planned, as it seems like this would very naturally drive the trade system, as players will want to get resources that may not be able to be sourced locally but which may be more efficient when applied to specific tasks, and resources will naturally be priced differently based on how far players need to travel to get them.
What are the thoughts you all have on this type of system? Or is this what's planned and I just haven't dug this one up yet?
Crafting Interdependency:
My next question has to do with crafting professions being intertwined - I understand that the gathering and processing professions will be needed by crafters, but what about other crafters? Will building plate armor also require components from a tailor or leatherworker (for example)? Will high level crafted gear require input from multiple professions? It's entirely possible this is already planned, but I think it would be a great way to get multiple crafters to cooperate with each other and create a real community.
Crafting Demand:
This is a somewhat simple question, but what is going to drive the need for crafters once a server matures? I understand that node development and repairing gear will still require gathered and processed resources, but what is an armor smith going to do on a mature server where most players already have the more high-end armor? It seems like there won't be a lot of demand for gear in a system where gear is rarely lost, so what are the plans to balance a player run economy where the main costs are in mats for repairs and not in the gear pieces themselves? For example, what role would someone have who crafts mounts when most players already have them? Obviously this isn't an issue that will appear for many months, but at some point the community will mature past needing a large influx of gear as the average player starts hitting max level.
Trade and Resource Diversity:
I recently read some information and heard in the various interviews about the caravan system and the incentives to move different types of resources from one node to another. It sounds like, if I understood it correctly - that it's largely artificial drivers that create a supply/demand element by NPC's, so that a caravan of loot from one region sells more in another, taking into account factors like distance and scarcity. This seems like a great system but sounds like it's largely driven by an artificial algorithm reacting to the players actions, rather than driven by the players themselves.
My question however is to wonder if there are going to be any more natural trade incentives driving players to create caravans other than selling loot. For example, are there going to be crafting/building resources that are more scarce in one region and plentiful in another? Will a mountainous region have more access to stone and less to wood, while a forested area would be the opposite?
Similarly, aside from the rarity of a resource being a higher 'tier' and required for higher level gear, are there going to be variations of the same type of resource that are good for different things? As a completely made-up example; the wood found in region A grants HP bonuses when used to build the hull of ships, while region B has wood that gives bonuses to the range of siege weapons built with it, and region C has wood that creates sturdier buildings. I haven't found any information pertaining to these questions and I'm curious if it's planned, as it seems like this would very naturally drive the trade system, as players will want to get resources that may not be able to be sourced locally but which may be more efficient when applied to specific tasks, and resources will naturally be priced differently based on how far players need to travel to get them.
What are the thoughts you all have on this type of system? Or is this what's planned and I just haven't dug this one up yet?
Crafting Interdependency:
My next question has to do with crafting professions being intertwined - I understand that the gathering and processing professions will be needed by crafters, but what about other crafters? Will building plate armor also require components from a tailor or leatherworker (for example)? Will high level crafted gear require input from multiple professions? It's entirely possible this is already planned, but I think it would be a great way to get multiple crafters to cooperate with each other and create a real community.
Crafting Demand:
This is a somewhat simple question, but what is going to drive the need for crafters once a server matures? I understand that node development and repairing gear will still require gathered and processed resources, but what is an armor smith going to do on a mature server where most players already have the more high-end armor? It seems like there won't be a lot of demand for gear in a system where gear is rarely lost, so what are the plans to balance a player run economy where the main costs are in mats for repairs and not in the gear pieces themselves? For example, what role would someone have who crafts mounts when most players already have them? Obviously this isn't an issue that will appear for many months, but at some point the community will mature past needing a large influx of gear as the average player starts hitting max level.
2
Comments
2: I dont know, but I would assume that higher level gear will require multiple crafting proficiencies.
3: People eventually get bored, get corrupt, and lose gear, but there are also a ton of recipes, so someone might want the best that was just invented.
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It's a big part of moving resources from the world to someone's home for processing or crafting. You can move gathered resources in your backpack, but you'll spend a lot of extra time in transit doing multiple trips and competing with people moving such things in caravans at scale. So the incentive is that to move any significant amount of resources efficiently/effectively, you'll need to rely on mules or caravans (we're talking roughly 10x / 100x backpack capacity respectively).
Quite possibly. The philosophy behind resources is not to have them be fixed nodes that just respawn after x time. There could be clusters of a resource that, when depleted, respawn somewhere else in world so that players need to explore to find them. It's early days regarding the information we have on resources, so details might change.
We don't know yet, but one part of the dev's philosophy is to make everything relevant. So that low-level herb used in a weak health potion would still be relevant at max level because you'd need those materials in the production chain to make strong potions.
We don't know yet. There is a fair amount of customisation planned with outfitting your character, so it will be interesting to see how this unfolds.
I think there's a few factors that make this a big 'IF': how easily people acquire top-tier gear and the scheduled delivery of new content/gear. On top of that, there's the demand for secondary gear pieces for people who switch their secondary classes or want to change their playstyle.
Mounts are similar. It might not be that easy to get the best and, even when you do, you might just want something different aesthetically or different mounts because of the unique abilities they each possess.
I mean it's possible we get to that point where everyone has everything and crafters are bored - we just don't know how likely that is at this point.
how do people figure out how to write paragraphs that clearly get their point across???
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but a caravan also give people something to do, it makes the system fun
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I wonder if you can send a caravan with like a single rock in it lol
Edit: You can move caravans solo or with just a few people, and we have no idea what the fail rates will be.
Yep, check out the section on caravan components (nothing set in stone but it gives you the general idea) - https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Caravans
You won't need 100 people to guard a caravan. If you had that many though, you could run 10 caravans worth of materials and that those 100 people guard them all.
The thing is, with no real fast travel, people won't be able to see you taking a caravan out and then get organized to try and take it on. Your main concern when running a caravan are the players you will happen across by chance, rather than some organized group that are sitting in ambush. Since most people will likely travel in groups of 8, all you really need to guard your caravan is enough to make sure you can take on most groups of 8.
You may occasionally hit some bad luck and run in to a guild heading off to do something together - but chances are, they will be in a time crunch and won't want to stop.
1. The pricing algorithm for items/resources is there to make sure that there is a more flexible and alive like economy when it comes to NPCs. If Node A has an abundance of forests and Node B is a desert, naturally wood will fetch you a pretty penny in that node if you sell it to an NPC. The same algorithm applies to the player driven economy part of the game - it's just player driven, the rarer a resource is in a certain Node, the higher the price will be until someone else decides to make deliveries of this material from another Node and drive the price down.
As for having multiple materials of the same tier with different bonuses - we don't know yet. We've barely seen any artisanship in game, yet. From what i've read about the artisan classes, they are going more on the route of 'the more masterful the artisan, the more options he gets' - as in the more mastery you gain in a profession you gain access to more stats options. For example an armorsmith on lower levels may just be able to put strength and hp on his crafts, but at higher levels he may be able to choose from every single stat in the game to put on the pull plate pieces he is crafting
2. We don't know yet, but I am pretty sure it will be the case. You will at the very least need the raw materials extracted by other artisans to create tools and items you want to use. At the VERY least i can think of needing all kinds of building materials for ships, needing a crafter to create the tools you will use to build a ship, need a tailor for the sails, etc etc
3. What will drive crafters when a server matures? 1) Resources don't respawn like in WoW. Once a resource node is depleted it disappears and may even respawn in a completely different Node. Resources will not be as abundant as people might think. This drives the need for good gatherers. Raw materials sometimes need to be processed to be used which drives the need for good processors.
2) Gear decay (basically durability) - Items will break and reparing them won't just require gold. You will need actual materials used to create the item and a crafter to repair it. Hence the need for crafters. Players will either need their current gear repaired or need new gear.
3) We don't exactly know how taming and animal husbandry will work in the entire ecosystem, BUT Steven and Jeff have said multiple times that they want crafting to be meaningful. You won't find yourself crafting 250 iron swords, scrapping them and crafting them again to level up your blacksmithing. The same way, i don't think players will be able to breed animals on a conveyer belt. Not everyone will be a tamer / husbander? And certainly not everyone will be a 100% into these so the top tier and best beasts will be rare to begin with, and even more so because of there not being that many people that can access them. The problem with this question is that we don't really know how those professions would work.
Some time ago it was said that you could only master 1 profession (say swordsmithing) or go into different other paths as well.
Then it became that you can master all branches of 1 of the 3 paths (gathering, processing or crafting).
Will that change again? No idea, but i am sure they will think of ways that make all professions meaningful in a way.
Probably.. I don't see why not xD
presumably, I would use it as a distraction
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