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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Theory crafting
mytherios
Member
So as of now WoW devs identify siming and theory crafting as a problem, what do Ashes devs think about this, and what do you as player think about this, is it really a problem?
Since all of the solutions so far backfired.
Since all of the solutions so far backfired.
1
Comments
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
Obviously not everyone agrees, and public opinion has shifted with the rise of gaming into the mainstream, where simming and theory crafting is more acceptable now, where as before it was treated more like movie spoilers.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a healthy amount of theory crafting. It's natural and what we all end up doing in any activity in life, not just games.
I think it becomes unhealthy for a game when it gets to toxic levels of, you needs this, this and this addon, this gear, this achievement and this itemscore or you're a worthless piece of trash don't even talk to me. That's only possible because of how HUGE WoW playerbase is and because they've totally removed any social-requirement. You can get away with being as anti-social as legally possible, and it will not affect you what-so-ever. Before acting this way in an MMO was suicide, you will probably need a name change/server transfer.
It's been said it is the developer's job to protect gamers from ourselves. We can't stop people from always wanting to be optimal, but we can build a world where healthy social interaction is more important than button-mashing.
For example, in Ashes, I don't think this elitism will be a problem to that extent because we're not dealing with a handhold-fest of grinding the same bosses over and over again in speed runs. There's so many playstyles, and so much of the game relies on teamwork, politics, economy and so many things.
If someone tells you you're trash because of some number .. Chances are everyone heavily dislikes this person. You could make it difficult for them in the game politically, you could rally people against them to siege their property or murder them, you could ambush their caravans, and everyone in your world inhabits your world.. Compare that to WoW where if someone is toxic to you, you can't do ANYTHING to them, and there is no consequence, they can just click a button and replace you with some mindless meter-drone and continue on their grind.
If a game develoepr is successful, any group of players that correctly theorize the best way to play a game should come up with exactly what the develoeprs intended. If they come up with something else, all that is doing is pointing out had bad the developers are at their job.
It is no wonder WoW developers would consider this an issue.
So really, the issue of simming and theorycrafting is one that the devs themselves have created. Hopefully Ashes won't have similar issues.
the problem is that if everyone knows everything, it would be an endless grind.
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
Errr...what? How did you come to that conclusion?
I have to agree with Wandering Mist above, how did you come to that conclusion?
If a game is a grind, it is because the develoeprs made it a grind. If the develoeprs make it so the game is not a grind, it doesn't matter how much players know about it, the game won't be a grind.
I feel that way because if everyb0dy knows the best possible build, they wont experiment, or try something new. It would make it so that noobs just go and search up builds for low levels, they dont go and do what I would, which is to try out combos. Too much knowledge will take away part of what ashes is about.
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
No class can be the best at everything. Every class will have things it is good at, and things it is not so good at. That's intentional.
I've only ever seen one game where there was a best possible build.
Good game developers have no real trouble avoiding this. They add in variables and such.
I know, I just want to avoid stuff like it. Sorry if I was confusing
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
Blizzard are ok at making games, they are great at polishing products, but they have no real experience in developing MMO's. Even after 15 years of WoW, they don't have that much eperience in developing MMO's - because the people there keep moving around between projects so much that very few developers on WoW are ever there for more than a single content cycle.
On the other hand, you have a studio like Intrepid where most of the staff work on MMO's exclusively - many have been working on them since before WoW even launched.
Based on that, it is probably a good idea to assume that most of the stupid stuff in WoW won't be present in Ashes.
okay, thanks
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
This is why I'm an advocate for Active Blocks and Active Dodges. Character control is the better part of gameplay in my opinion. You might not be the top DPS but in PvP it won't matter because you can outplay the opponent. If its just a straight up DPS race then PvP will become stale and boring.
A lot of that depends on how hard and highly tuned they make the content. In WoW for example, mythic raids are so tightly tuned that even a 3% difference in dps can make the difference between success and failure. Faced with that it's no wonder that guilds only take the very best classes for each raid. Of course, the easier the content the more wiggle room you have when it comes to bringing classes that aren't the absolute best performers.
Mythic is indeed a challenge but Mythic is the culmination of many years of honing the PvE and classes and most of WoW is a cake walk which requires little to no communication at this point. Just listen to instructions and nobble the challenge. I had hoped we'd require communication, skill and armour attunement for Ashes Raids if the main staple will be crafted Armour.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Classes
Lets assume that is the case - but remember this is an assuption.
The best build will likely have some augments to abilities that require a specefic node type, that has a specific religious building and specific social organization building. It will also likely require your guild to take specific options that may not be best for the guild as a whole.
Now, if you need religious, social and node type augments to make this assumed "best build", you would need one node of that type at metropolis level, that has that one religious building AND that specific social organization building.
There is no guatantee that you will ever have that combination on your server - in fact, it is likely that you wont.
So even if (and this is still an assumption) there is one best build, that build may only be available to the population of one node on one server.
This is all before we factor in guild options, let alone the impact support classes will have on altering how things go.
There are going to be so many variables that no one will be able to point to a single build and claim it as the best for everyone, as not everyone will have access to all augments.
You may see people say if you have {this particular set of circumstances} then this would be the best build for you, but that is about it.
Things become subjective when they're so varied. What's the best 'leveling/pve/pvp' build to you, might be a horrible one to me and the way I play.
You're welcome, I thought it would help you.
Even just latency - players with a high ping may want to take more tab abilities over action, in a game like this, that could mske a far bigger difference than anything.
That isn't even factoring in player preference, which will also drastically alter things.
There definately can be build of the month due to balance issues and bugs. I am looking back at AoC where if you unlocked the shield skill but put 0 points in it instead of reflecting back 0% you reflecting back 100% damage. They were unkillable in pvp for like 3 weeks. I am looking at wow when death knights for a few months could not only take on almost any class they could often take on 2-3 people at a time for a few months. Most games just switch from 1 op flavor of the month to the next to the next.
In AoC, that was a bug. I assume the same with WoW (though with that game, it could have been a design feature).
You can't really use bugs as a way of saying a game will have a "best build".
One of mmo(rpg)'s which shouldn't had 'the best builds' based on how much variety skill builds and other stuff have (more than AoC) at the end it ended up with having 'the best build' for x content. Talking about Path of Exile.
I know this stuff happened in alot of mmo's. I've played lots of them since my first ever in 2005. and I was even a dev for class balancing in Aion.
In mmo's I too play how I like and what's good build for me, except when it comes to hardcore raiding or pvp.
Now we will wait and see and hope Mr Sharif and AoC team take all time needed and dont rush with the game.
Ashes has many avenues of progression, preventing any 1 class from being the best at progressing.
And "hardcore raiding and PvP" are one in the same, when the entire world is PvX. You may be trying to do a hardcore raid, but people can still come and attack your group with their group, or you may be trying to do hardcore PvP, but every class is countered by some other class by design.
Every class is needed in PvP and in PvE, and everything is balanced around group content. You can't be the best because you're one person.