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Alts and there interaction with Artisan Classes

Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
If we are allowed to have alts, and be able to master an entire profession tree per character, how will that not interrupt a player driven economy?

Example: If you have someone with 2 alts, they share a freehold space and have access that storage. this person farms the mats with a Master gatherer to create a master processor alt. With all of those materials you are able to make a master crafter eventually. now lets say that out of 50000 total people on a server 1% of people try and do this, ie 500 people. those people would need to be active, so out of 6k people, 500 or so at least would be self sufficient, that's a huge part of the market cut from the game, why even have player driven economies if there are work arounds? Cause if they succeed everyone will do it, or at least people who are serious about META. Yes this would take time....but people are talking about putting 14+ hours a day so this is not an unreasonable task.

Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes. I feel like having more individualized masteries would create much less vague self sufficiency and more specialized, keeping the demand high and suppliers relevant.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I am not sure that it is necessary, but I like it anyway. It does contribute to making crafting professions more exclusive. Since that is something that IS wants to focus on and it increases the value of crafters, I think it is a great idea.

  • Lil Diddle wrote: »
    If we are allowed to have alts, and be able to master an entire profession tree per character, how will that not interrupt a player driven economy?

    Example: If you have someone with 2 alts, they share a freehold space and have access that storage. this person farms the mats with a Master gatherer to create a master processor alt. With all of those materials you are able to make a master crafter eventually. now lets say that out of 50000 total people on a server 1% of people try and do this, ie 500 people. those people would need to be active, so out of 6k people, 500 or so at least would be self sufficient, that's a huge part of the market cut from the game, why even have player driven economies if there are work arounds? Cause if they succeed everyone will do it, or at least people who are serious about META. Yes this would take time....but people are talking about putting 14+ hours a day so this is not an unreasonable task.

    Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes. I feel like having more individualized masteries would create much less vague self sufficiency and more specialized, keeping the demand high and suppliers relevant.

    Thoughts?

    Interesting idea.
    sig-Samson-Final.gif
  • TheBlackLambTheBlackLamb Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    Samson wrote: »
    Lil Diddle wrote: »
    If we are allowed to have alts, and be able to master an entire profession tree per character, how will that not interrupt a player driven economy?

    Example: If you have someone with 2 alts, they share a freehold space and have access that storage. this person farms the mats with a Master gatherer to create a master processor alt. With all of those materials you are able to make a master crafter eventually. now lets say that out of 50000 total people on a server 1% of people try and do this, ie 500 people. those people would need to be active, so out of 6k people, 500 or so at least would be self sufficient, that's a huge part of the market cut from the game, why even have player driven economies if there are work arounds? Cause if they succeed everyone will do it, or at least people who are serious about META. Yes this would take time....but people are talking about putting 14+ hours a day so this is not an unreasonable task.

    Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes. I feel like having more individualized masteries would create much less vague self sufficiency and more specialized, keeping the demand high and suppliers relevant.

    Thoughts?

    Interesting idea.

    Interesting Quote, what part is the interesting idea?
    F6lQFCc.png
  • HazardNumberSevenHazardNumberSeven Member, Alpha Two
    Samson wrote: »
    Lil Diddle wrote: »
    If we are allowed to have alts, and be able to master an entire profession tree per character, how will that not interrupt a player driven economy?

    Example: If you have someone with 2 alts, they share a freehold space and have access that storage. this person farms the mats with a Master gatherer to create a master processor alt. With all of those materials you are able to make a master crafter eventually. now lets say that out of 50000 total people on a server 1% of people try and do this, ie 500 people. those people would need to be active, so out of 6k people, 500 or so at least would be self sufficient, that's a huge part of the market cut from the game, why even have player driven economies if there are work arounds? Cause if they succeed everyone will do it, or at least people who are serious about META. Yes this would take time....but people are talking about putting 14+ hours a day so this is not an unreasonable task.

    Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes. I feel like having more individualized masteries would create much less vague self sufficiency and more specialized, keeping the demand high and suppliers relevant.

    Thoughts?

    Interesting idea.

    Interesting Quote, what part is the interesting idea?

    Interesting question.
  • TheBlackLambTheBlackLamb Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Samson wrote: »
    Lil Diddle wrote: »
    If we are allowed to have alts, and be able to master an entire profession tree per character, how will that not interrupt a player driven economy?

    Example: If you have someone with 2 alts, they share a freehold space and have access that storage. this person farms the mats with a Master gatherer to create a master processor alt. With all of those materials you are able to make a master crafter eventually. now lets say that out of 50000 total people on a server 1% of people try and do this, ie 500 people. those people would need to be active, so out of 6k people, 500 or so at least would be self sufficient, that's a huge part of the market cut from the game, why even have player driven economies if there are work arounds? Cause if they succeed everyone will do it, or at least people who are serious about META. Yes this would take time....but people are talking about putting 14+ hours a day so this is not an unreasonable task.

    Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes. I feel like having more individualized masteries would create much less vague self sufficiency and more specialized, keeping the demand high and suppliers relevant.

    Thoughts?

    Interesting idea.

    Interesting Quote, what part is the interesting idea?

    Interesting question.

    Interesting indeed
    F6lQFCc.png
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Samson wrote: »
    Lil Diddle wrote: »
    If we are allowed to have alts, and be able to master an entire profession tree per character, how will that not interrupt a player driven economy?

    Example: If you have someone with 2 alts, they share a freehold space and have access that storage. this person farms the mats with a Master gatherer to create a master processor alt. With all of those materials you are able to make a master crafter eventually. now lets say that out of 50000 total people on a server 1% of people try and do this, ie 500 people. those people would need to be active, so out of 6k people, 500 or so at least would be self sufficient, that's a huge part of the market cut from the game, why even have player driven economies if there are work arounds? Cause if they succeed everyone will do it, or at least people who are serious about META. Yes this would take time....but people are talking about putting 14+ hours a day so this is not an unreasonable task.

    Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes. I feel like having more individualized masteries would create much less vague self sufficiency and more specialized, keeping the demand high and suppliers relevant.

    Thoughts?

    Interesting idea.

    Interesting Quote, what part is the interesting idea?

    Interesting question.

    Interesting observation
    F6lQFCc.png
  • I think that it should be master one profession per alt
  • NamilNamil Member, Alpha Two
    If a player puts in the effort to master two professions on two characters, I don't really see the issue with it. Does limiting the player in this regard really make the game better?
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  • XenotorXenotor Member, Alpha Two
    There is allways the time limit.
    Lets say i can spend 8 hours a day playing

    There is a difference if i spend 8 hours cutting tress or spend 4 hours cutting trees and 4 hours processing.
    In the end i could got twice the ammount of rar material just gathering, thus making enough money to hire a processor.

    If someone spends their time leveling a crafting profession on an alt character then i say let them.
    Sure they are self sufficient but theses typ of players are usally a minority.

    Also the Economy is node based.
    Its good if you can gather and craft weapons all on your own. But you cant sell them to anyone outside your node unless you transport them by hand.
    No magic Auction house that connects to every player.
    53ap2sc6pdgv.gif
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Namil wrote: »
    If a player puts in the effort to master two professions on two characters, I don't really see the issue with it. Does limiting the player in this regard really make the game better?

    if enough people do this then most of the player driven economy is no longer player driven. why would someone buy materials if they can just gather them? why would they buy parts if they can have a processor, why would buy weapons if they have an alt that can make them? if you can just do this, why would anyone not?

    What i think should happen is going back to only mastering one part of the tree, like being a master lumberjack only, then having an alt that can master one thing.
    F6lQFCc.png
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    Lil Diddle wrote: »
    With all of those materials you are able to make a master crafter eventually. now lets say that out of 50000 total people on a server 1% of people try and do this

    Thoughts?
    1%? You're funny. This has been my plan all along. It is going to be the META yes for sure.

    Your solution already came to my mind too, I'm sure Intrepid thought of it and rejected the idea. Because it will encourage P2W multi-accounting and they don't seem to have a solution for it or even trying to prevent it.

    haha honestly ya i went super conservative and i hope they consider some sort of compromise
    F6lQFCc.png
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Xenotor wrote: »
    There is allways the time limit.
    Lets say i can spend 8 hours a day playing

    There is a difference if i spend 8 hours cutting tress or spend 4 hours cutting trees and 4 hours processing.
    In the end i could got twice the ammount of rar material just gathering, thus making enough money to hire a processor.

    If someone spends their time leveling a crafting profession on an alt character then i say let them.
    Sure they are self sufficient but theses typ of players are usally a minority.

    Also the Economy is node based.
    Its good if you can gather and craft weapons all on your own. But you cant sell them to anyone outside your node unless you transport them by hand.
    No magic Auction house that connects to every player.

    in that same vein, you could spend 8 hours gathering, store at your freehold, hop on a processing alt, process it, and then go back to gathering. eventually you make enough to level a crafter. I dont think this will be the minority, it saves so much gold to just make all of your own gear and weapons and i feel like alot of people will end up doing this.
    F6lQFCc.png
  • TheBlackLambTheBlackLamb Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited July 2020
    sounds amazing,,,,


    testing my display name
    F6lQFCc.png
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Please remember that you cannot share raw materials with your alts.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alts
    Banking
    Nodes advance to the first stage quickly. This enables NPC services such as vending or banking items.[32]

    Banking between characters will likely be restricted to Furniture and completed items.[33]
    A warehouse ability may enable a player to transfer non-material goods between alternate characters. This excludes resources, materials or anything that relies on the caravan system.[34]
  • UnhewnUnhewn Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Please remember that you cannot share raw materials with your alts.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alts
    Banking
    Nodes advance to the first stage quickly. This enables NPC services such as vending or banking items.[32]

    Banking between characters will likely be restricted to Furniture and completed items.[33]
    A warehouse ability may enable a player to transfer non-material goods between alternate characters. This excludes resources, materials or anything that relies on the caravan system.[34]

    Good to know, thanks for the info !
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Please remember that you cannot share raw materials with your alts.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alts
    Banking
    Nodes advance to the first stage quickly. This enables NPC services such as vending or banking items.[32]

    Banking between characters will likely be restricted to Furniture and completed items.[33]
    A warehouse ability may enable a player to transfer non-material goods between alternate characters. This excludes resources, materials or anything that relies on the caravan system.[34]

    even for freeholds?
    F6lQFCc.png
  • HamousheHamoushe Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I'm concerned in regards to statements that suggest adventure level and artisan level are not tied to one another. Why would anyone not make their main a gatherer and have a level 1 processor and crafter toon parked at their freehold?
  • Have you actually read stuff at all ? It will take 4-5 months on average to hit max level. By the time you level up alts everyone will be far ahead of you in both resourses, gold and gear so that makes leveling an alt pointless.
  • Lil Diddle wrote: »
    If we are allowed to have alts, and be able to master an entire profession tree per character, how will that not interrupt a player driven economy?

    Example: If you have someone with 2 alts, they share a freehold space and have access that storage. this person farms the mats with a Master gatherer to create a master processor alt. With all of those materials you are able to make a master crafter eventually. now lets say that out of 50000 total people on a server 1% of people try and do this, ie 500 people. those people would need to be active, so out of 6k people, 500 or so at least would be self sufficient, that's a huge part of the market cut from the game, why even have player driven economies if there are work arounds? Cause if they succeed everyone will do it, or at least people who are serious about META. Yes this would take time....but people are talking about putting 14+ hours a day so this is not an unreasonable task.

    Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes. I feel like having more individualized masteries would create much less vague self sufficiency and more specialized, keeping the demand high and suppliers relevant.

    Thoughts?

    I agree. Every account should only be able to master 1 artisan class. However, this should only be implemented when there are sufficient professions under every artisan class. Right now, processing is severely lacking in that regard.
  • XenantayaXenantaya Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Also, after the OP Steven clarified that characters will not be able to master an entire artisan class on a single character. Instead, each character can only master "multiple" professions -- but not all -- within a single artisan class. I'm assuming how many is "multiple" is still up for debate, but likely would take several alts to master every profession.

  • Take into consideration that you only get one freehold per account. It sounds like to truly be a master of an artisan class you will have to have the proper facilities on your freehold. I highly doubt that you will be able to fit more than one or two high quality stations on your freehold.
  • I don't think they will limit the professions to one a account. Leveling professions across alts is just what crafting focused players like to do. Plus actually limiting accounts in this way will promote multi boxing. You don't want to get into a hacking war with these people. No company to date has actually won against the hacking community when they are seriously invested.
    zZJyoEK.gif

    U.S. East
  • JexzJexz Member
    edited August 2020
    Xenotor wrote: »
    in that same vein, you could spend 8 hours gathering, store at your freehold, hop on a processing alt, process it, and then go back to gathering. eventually you make enough to level a crafter. I dont think this will be the minority, it saves so much gold to just make all of your own gear and weapons and i feel like alot of people will end up doing this.

    It all comes down to opportunity costs. If there are more people gathering you may make more just buying and processing. If lots of people start processing the money might be in Crafting. If everyone is focusing on these then you are better off doing dungeons.
    This is what is great about a free market. What may be profitable one week might not the next. somethings might even been money sinks. Crafting could very well be cost prohibitive if to many people do it and value the skill points over profit.
    Please remember that you cannot share raw materials with your alts.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alts
    Banking
    Nodes advance to the first stage quickly. This enables NPC services such as vending or banking items.[32]

    Banking between characters will likely be restricted to Furniture and completed items.[33]
    A warehouse ability may enable a player to transfer non-material goods between alternate characters. This excludes resources, materials or anything that relies on the caravan system.[34]

    Can you not just trade items to a trustworthy friend and transfer it to your processor?
    Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    I don't think they will limit the professions to one a account. Leveling professions across alts is just what crafting focused players like to do. Plus actually limiting accounts in this way will promote multi boxing. You don't want to get into a hacking war with these people. No company to date has actually won against the hacking community when they are seriously invested.

    Depending on how crafting and processing and gathering work this game already promotes multi boxing.
    Even if processing and crafting aren't semi afk. Long travel times make for good multi box crafting/processing time. If you can't transfer materials to an alt to process even more reason to multi box. This is the assumption that these things will be profitable . This might not necessarily be true. Supply and demand will dictate that.
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If you read the wiki, you know as much as me.

    The best workaround for pretty much all of the issues is to be in a good guild or have good friends. You can transfer to them and back, you can use their Freeholds, you can have them sell, whatever.
  • Hi,

    I have played quite a bit of Albion Online, and I can tell you that it is indeed a huge problem. All you need to do is to have a single alt account to make it work, even with the restrictions to storing unprocessed goods. As soon as a player has a second account, he can basically get as many maxed out mastery trees as he can create alts. That means that every dedicated hardcore (later semi hardcore too) player will have every single profession maxed out, if he choses to put in the effort. First it will be limited to crafting as that takes almost no time at all to level. You simply put your crafter near the crafting station or whatever you need to craft, and deliver the materials with your second account. A little while after release people will start to have enough gold to straight up buy the supply and focus on crafting, if they want to. The entire idea behind the limited ability to max out your profession mastery / skilltree, from what I understand, is to ensure that rare goods / materials stay valuable, even long after launch. And that is simply not going to happen without restrictions to leveling alts. The only way that I could think of to prevent such things to happen is (as Lil Diddle mentioned in his op) to limit the mastery of professions to one per account.

    Best regards

    Sam
  • BaSkA_9x2BaSkA_9x2 Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Lil Diddle wrote: »
    Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes.

    I have a question: if being able to master two artisan classes in one account is not permitted, doing it on two different accounts logged in at the same time on two different computers controlled by me would be okay?

    I don't want to get into the multi-boxing discussion, so assuming doing what I just described will be allowed, what makes one okay and the other forbidden? Only the fact that I pay for two different subscriptions?

    This is a slippery slope, and I don't think there's any way to prevent people from doing this apart from making it very time consuming.
    🎶Galo é Galo o resto é bosta🎶
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Hamoushe wrote: »
    I'm concerned in regards to statements that suggest adventure level and artisan level are not tied to one another. Why would anyone not make their main a gatherer and have a level 1 processor and crafter toon parked at their freehold?

    Well some people will make a gathering main, thats what i plan on doing. I just like to gather lol. but gathering gives combat exp technically so it might even be a good way to level up your main class
    F6lQFCc.png
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    BaSkA13 wrote: »
    Lil Diddle wrote: »
    Solution proposed: Make artisan classes 1 master per account, or only be able to master one facet of artisan classes.

    I have a question: if being able to master two artisan classes in one account is not permitted, doing it on two different accounts logged in at the same time on two different computers controlled by me would be okay?

    I don't want to get into the multi-boxing discussion, so assuming doing what I just described will be allowed, what makes one okay and the other forbidden? Only the fact that I pay for two different subscriptions?

    This is a slippery slope, and I don't think there's any way to prevent people from doing this apart from making it very time consuming.

    ya but you would need alot of accounts in order to do anything. I dont see how someone could make money off of it by sustaining that many accounts
    F6lQFCc.png
  • Lil DiddleLil Diddle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Samtrump wrote: »
    Hi,

    I have played quite a bit of Albion Online, and I can tell you that it is indeed a huge problem. All you need to do is to have a single alt account to make it work, even with the restrictions to storing unprocessed goods. As soon as a player has a second account, he can basically get as many maxed out mastery trees as he can create alts. That means that every dedicated hardcore (later semi hardcore too) player will have every single profession maxed out, if he choses to put in the effort. First it will be limited to crafting as that takes almost no time at all to level. You simply put your crafter near the crafting station or whatever you need to craft, and deliver the materials with your second account. A little while after release people will start to have enough gold to straight up buy the supply and focus on crafting, if they want to. The entire idea behind the limited ability to max out your profession mastery / skilltree, from what I understand, is to ensure that rare goods / materials stay valuable, even long after launch. And that is simply not going to happen without restrictions to leveling alts. The only way that I could think of to prevent such things to happen is (as Lil Diddle mentioned in his op) to limit the mastery of professions to one per account.

    Best regards

    Sam

    its very sad to see it happen in other games, though it seems this has been changed since i originally posted this to be more of what i wanted.
    F6lQFCc.png
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