Primary/Secondary Class Abilitys

Hello,

I'm just here right now, to clarify some questions i've got on my mind and i know things are neither set in stone yet nor are they finished.

If i pick 2 Classes, as an example i gonna take Warrior and Cleric.

The Warrior gets a standart "Increase dmg on next attack" Ability (Heroic Strike from wow).
If i pick Cleric, i do not get new abilitys, instead i could augment the "Heroic Strike" ability with life regen/armor buff or whatever it is.

Is my understanding so far correct?

My initital thought when i saw the the table with the different classes was:
You get a primary Class and full access to it and a secondary class, which unlocks additional skills or parts of the the secondary skillset.

So the if the first example is the way it is, can it really be called 64 distinctive classes? I mean its basically 8 classes and each got a barely different playstyle.
I hoped for a real Multi-Classing experience, like in Grim Dawn/Titan Quest, thought that might be too much.

So, can somebody explain it to me, how exactly it will work?
Would really appreciate it

.

Thank you in advance!

Best Regards,
Ontrose
(Why do i Zoom in everytime i hit Enter to jump to the next line? Well not zoomng in, but the picture in the background gets bigger XD that feels weird XD)

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Comments

Songcaller

At present, the Secondary Class will radically alter aspects of the Primary Class. To what degree (As in how many skill augments it will enhance) its not clear. You can also alter/augment the Archetype from other sources (To what degree its not clear). This should mean for every 8 Players, there are numerous variations that will occur based on Guild Augments, Racial Augments, Religious Augments, Node Augments etc.

It is difficult for me to say how radical a Primary Archetype will be changed, only that Second Archetype changes will be radical. Effectively, there will be 64 classes, but, with the other augments from other areas, even the 64 classes will have variations. At least this is what my research has made me believe at this time.

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Ontrose

Oh, right now it does sound rather disappointing.
I hoped to be able to summon stuff and then go and support it as a bard or a cleric in addition to the abilitys the summons already have. I feel, like there should be a hand full of signature abilitys from the class be unlocked when taken as secondary.

Guess i will have to wait and see, if it is a disappointment or if i get a pleasant surprise.
But right now i fear, that its 8 classes, with barely any difference from their secondarys.

If a fighter charge turns into a fighters charge with some elemental aoe or instead of charge into a teleport abilitys, i dont feel theres too much of a difference in playstyles. But well, wait and see how it plays out. But my dream of summoner buffing is dead it seems.

Songcaller

If signature abilities are enabled to be placed in different Primary Archetypes then we would have a case where everyone or nearly everyone can do the same things. We want to protect the Trinity Aspects and rock, paper, scissor aspects, not create a Schizophrenic Aspected Swiss Army Knife. Until the NDA lifts and Alpha 2 rocks around (Where Secondary Archetypes can be added to the Primary Archetypes) we can't really hype the theories or be disappointed in the theories in my opinion.

Xrael

Ontrose wrote: »

Oh, right now it does sound rather disappointing.
I hoped to be able to summon stuff and then go and support it as a bard or a cleric in addition to the abilitys the summons already have. I feel, like there should be a hand full of signature abilitys from the class be unlocked when taken as secondary.

Guess i will have to wait and see, if it is a disappointment or if i get a pleasant surprise.
But right now i fear, that its 8 classes, with barely any difference from their secondarys.

If a fighter charge turns into a fighters charge with some elemental aoe or instead of charge into a teleport abilitys, i dont feel theres too much of a difference in playstyles. But well, wait and see how it plays out. But my dream of summoner buffing is dead it seems.

MORE doesn't equal BETTER.

How many abilities do you have in wow? Out of these, how often do you use all of them? Exactly, you have a ton of abilities but you only use a handful of them frequently.

You get a primary class, which grants you active and passive abilities that you can invest skill points into. Your weapon grants you weapon abilities that you can invest skill points into. Your secondary class gives you augments, that you can apply to diff. abilities, that drastically improve an ability while giving it flavor with respect to your class. You can invest skill points into these augmented abilities as well. You can also invest skill points into different passive skills to increase your defensive/resource stats. Your ranks/titles also give you horizontal progression on your abilities, giving you more utility in certain events.

This gives a lot of variation in and of itself, simply because you can decide what you want to invest your skill points into. Do you want to invest more into weapons or more into active skills? Or do you want to invest these skill points into passive skills as shown here https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Skills#Passive_skills? Or do you want to invest these points into your augmented abilities instead?

How much MORE variety do you really want?

This I think is the best way to design classes imo, as it gives you just enough abilities to keep pressing continuously, while allowing a ton of customization and build paths depending on your playstyle.

This is also a lot more fun to watch as there are a lot less abilities to press so you can identify abilities far easier than in WoW, where you have way too many and you don't even know what they're even doing.

Nagash

CaptainChuck wrote: »

Ontrose wrote: »

Oh, right now it does sound rather disappointing.
I hoped to be able to summon stuff and then go and support it as a bard or a cleric in addition to the abilitys the summons already have. I feel, like there should be a hand full of signature abilitys from the class be unlocked when taken as secondary.

Guess i will have to wait and see, if it is a disappointment or if i get a pleasant surprise.
But right now i fear, that its 8 classes, with barely any difference from their secondarys.

If a fighter charge turns into a fighters charge with some elemental aoe or instead of charge into a teleport abilitys, i dont feel theres too much of a difference in playstyles. But well, wait and see how it plays out. But my dream of summoner buffing is dead it seems.

MORE doesn't equal BETTER.

/quote]

Unless its skeletons

Niraada

For those hoping to gain the benefit of things like summons out of their secondary archetypes, just remember that this kind of thing could be possible.

Take Steven's Fighter/Mage example. A fighter isn't going to get a blink spell, but a teleport augment added to Rush turns it into a Blinkstrike.

Now, say you were a Fighter/Summoner, with your Heroic Strike example. With a Summoning Augment, your Heroic Strike could potentially summon a magical weapon that will replicate your attacks for next n seconds.

Or maybe you'd rather have a bard secondary? Maybe your Heroic Strike will inspire your nearby allies, granting them a temporary bonus to damage and/or defenses.

And those are each just a possible one of four augments each secondary archetype could offer you per skill.

Songcaller

Thank you, Niraada. You reinforce how important Secondary Archetypes will be. We might be able to select one of 4 augments per skill (Just from a Secondary Archetype) but we don't know what all the options are. This means the variation will be much greater than I first envisioned. Group compositions will be very varied and it means Hybrid Classes will be very viable.

Ontrose

The point im trying to make is,
that by choosing the secondary class, it changes your toolset and doesnt neccesary increase it.

Quote from the wiki:
For example: If your summon had a sweeping attack with a claw, or had the ability to bite an opponent, or rush an opponent; and you took teleportation, you could rush them similar to how I've given an example with the tank: Teleporting to a target instead. Or, its claws could combust on impact on a target dealing some burn damage that persists. Or... let's say your summon traditionally was some type of bear or bear cat, you could apply an elemental augment and now it could be a transparent flaming bioluminescent cat; and its damage would be fire based. So, that's how we want to influence the active skills with how augments apply; and that's how it would apply with Summoners

We have one example of your toolset really changes. From charge to Blink and multiple examples where a dot gets added. And thats what i fear with "Augments" that 90% of things will just be a way to add a fancy visual effect and some minor change, that doesnt really matter how you play your character.
What is the use of character customisation if you choose how your attack looks, without changing the way you use it?
In my opinion, having a tiny additional fire/bleed effect or changes it to firedmg, is less involving then you actually going to the frontlines or cast spells whatever to give a boost to your companions.

Thats one of the points i wanted to make. you have 7 or 8 augments (not sure how a class augments the same class), and they all just change like: Deal type X additional dmg with a fancy looking effect.

And by the examples i could read up on and hear so far, it seems the majority of effects will be just that. A statstick that changes the type of dmg you deal.

And no, a bigger toolset doesnt mean its a better game. Wow got positive and negative examples.
As a Pala player i have to say, i use about every spell on a regular bais (talking about classic, not retail).

On that note, i stick with my initial statement, i personally feel multiclassing might be better, cos it offers more versatility in your toolset that has meaning.

And yes, of course we/i have to wait till more informations are out to make a "final verdict", but right now im putting in my thoughts here and honestly i hope my "fears" (fear is too hard of a word, i will still have fun with the game anyways) are unfounded.
But if i want to state such concerns and input its now, while stuff is progressing and beeing tested and not on 90% of development.

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