Managing class ability unlocks in a unique way

I've always felt like your abilities should be completely unlocked as rewards for completing specific (leveling) content. This way you could create a wide variety of abilities, have players choose which ones they pursue first (have it related to node buildings).

This way you're thinking about which abilities you should pursue first while leveling instead of just being handed your abilities once you kill enough boars. (getting enough pelts or resources could reward a training session with a master) That way your skills leveling would also be related to your gathering and killing. You would want to explore the world and find your abilities while you level

As a bard you could either unlock tutoring from a master or secret music scrolls.

As a cleric you could improve your connection to your god, doing deeds to convert npcs.

As a fighter you would pursue which kind of weapon you were proficient in first, by the time you're 50 you would be a master of all weapons and get bonuses or something

As a mage you would search for spells or hidden power stone unloocks (skyrim)

As a ranger you could search for eyesight enhancements, bow strength quality and arrow type. venom arrows for certain specs ect.

Rogue would be completing missions where you steal from people, learning from a master theif or completing a heist.

Summoner would search for things to summon, doing quests for different beasts to unlock their permission to be summoned

Tank: Learn to get beat, take lots of damage or find armor enhancing items (think lotr mythril)

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Comments

Niraada

I can see some pros and cons to this approach, and while I don't think I'd want this for every skill, I wouldn't be opposed to undergoing a quest to gain our ultimate abilities, and perhaps a few signature skills of the archetype.

Ultimately, I really like the skill point system, allowing people to shift the dynamic of their play to suit their own needs, even within the same base archetype. I know, I know. Cookie cutters almost certainly will happen, but I get a lot of enjoyment out of experimenting with different skill builds and seeing how they function.

Xrael

The majority of your vertical progression, i.e. skills, is unlocked through leveling. Making it so that people have to do different things to unlock their CORE abilities, is a very bad idea.

There are societies, religions, and ranks/titles, that give horizontal progression on your abilities i.e. utility during certain events.

That in, my opinion, is more than enough as this will make it so that you're not forced to do something in order to unlock core abilities of your class.

Aardvark

CaptainChuck wrote: »

The majority of your vertical progression, i.e. skills, is unlocked through leveling. Making it so that people have to do different things to unlock their CORE abilities, is a very bad idea.

There are societies, religions, and ranks/titles, that give horizontal progression on your abilities i.e. utility during certain events.

That in, my opinion, is more than enough.

There is nothing wrong with every even #ed level having a class quest chain to get your next skill. Pretty sure origional wow had this like every 3rd level. I rememeber having to do a ton of druid quests to get all my shape shifting forums and some abilities

Borus

The focus is all on end game with the developers, this is an easy way to add some early game depth while you as a player find your place in this massive game

Atama

This isn’t a radical idea in general. What’s described here is how skill-based systems usually work in RPGs. Star Wars Galaxies (in its original form) worked that way; you built up specific skills by using them and you unlocked further abilities that way. The Elder Scrolls games also do this. Just a couple of examples.

However, Ashes will be closer to your typical class/level system, where generic XP leads to advancing levels and letting you pick your skills and abilities. This idea doesn’t work very well in this game, not without fundamentally changing it.

However, it might work for crafting skills and I actually expect that’s how they’ll do it. Usually even traditional class/level/generic XP games (like WoW for example) treat crafting as an activity where you advance a particular skill through use. So it might be in effect that way.

I also like the idea of getting certain kinds of permanent bonuses through achievements, which is similar to what you’re proposing.

EDIT: I do like the idea of a quest to unlock a secondary class, or change it. That’s another way that might work.

Aardvark

Atama wrote: »

This isn’t a radical idea in general. What’s described here is how skill-based systems usually work in RPGs. Star Wars Galaxies (in its original form) worked that way; you built up specific skills by using them and you unlocked further abilities that way. The Elder Scrolls games also do this. Just a couple of examples.

However, Ashes will be closer to your typical class/level system, where generic XP leads to advancing levels and letting you pick your skills and abilities. This idea doesn’t work very well in this game, not without fundamentally changing it.

However, it might work for crafting skills and I actually expect that’s how they’ll do it. Usually even traditional class/level/generic XP games (like WoW for example) treat crafting as an activity where you advance a particular skill through use. So it might be in effect that way.

I also like the idea of getting certain kinds of permanent bonuses through achievements, which is similar to what you’re proposing.

I do miss think it was Elderscrolls 2 daggerfall. Where if you wanted to get better at jumping you jumped alot, better at swimming you swam, better at picking locks you picked locks, better at swords you used one.

Atama

Aardvark wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

This isn’t a radical idea in general. What’s described here is how skill-based systems usually work in RPGs. Star Wars Galaxies (in its original form) worked that way; you built up specific skills by using them and you unlocked further abilities that way. The Elder Scrolls games also do this. Just a couple of examples.

However, Ashes will be closer to your typical class/level system, where generic XP leads to advancing levels and letting you pick your skills and abilities. This idea doesn’t work very well in this game, not without fundamentally changing it.

However, it might work for crafting skills and I actually expect that’s how they’ll do it. Usually even traditional class/level/generic XP games (like WoW for example) treat crafting as an activity where you advance a particular skill through use. So it might be in effect that way.

I also like the idea of getting certain kinds of permanent bonuses through achievements, which is similar to what you’re proposing.

I do miss think it was Elderscrolls 2 daggerfall. Where if you wanted to get better at jumping you jumped alot, better at swimming you swam, better at picking locks you picked locks, better swords you used one.

I do too, sort of, but it led to me hopping around like a kangaroo everywhere until I maxed out the skill. True story.

So there is a downside...

Aardvark

Atama wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

This isn’t a radical idea in general. What’s described here is how skill-based systems usually work in RPGs. Star Wars Galaxies (in its original form) worked that way; you built up specific skills by using them and you unlocked further abilities that way. The Elder Scrolls games also do this. Just a couple of examples.

However, Ashes will be closer to your typical class/level system, where generic XP leads to advancing levels and letting you pick your skills and abilities. This idea doesn’t work very well in this game, not without fundamentally changing it.

However, it might work for crafting skills and I actually expect that’s how they’ll do it. Usually even traditional class/level/generic XP games (like WoW for example) treat crafting as an activity where you advance a particular skill through use. So it might be in effect that way.

I also like the idea of getting certain kinds of permanent bonuses through achievements, which is similar to what you’re proposing.

I do miss think it was Elderscrolls 2 daggerfall. Where if you wanted to get better at jumping you jumped alot, better at swimming you swam, better at picking locks you picked locks, better swords you used one.

I do too, sort of, but it led to me hopping around like a kangaroo everywhere until I maxed out the skill. True story.

So there is a downside...

But this is a pvx game so just go into pvp and bunny hop aggervating the enemy... speaking of which since many abilities are not TAB target bunny hopping may be effective lol

Atama

Aardvark wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Aardvark wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

This isn’t a radical idea in general. What’s described here is how skill-based systems usually work in RPGs. Star Wars Galaxies (in its original form) worked that way; you built up specific skills by using them and you unlocked further abilities that way. The Elder Scrolls games also do this. Just a couple of examples.

However, Ashes will be closer to your typical class/level system, where generic XP leads to advancing levels and letting you pick your skills and abilities. This idea doesn’t work very well in this game, not without fundamentally changing it.

However, it might work for crafting skills and I actually expect that’s how they’ll do it. Usually even traditional class/level/generic XP games (like WoW for example) treat crafting as an activity where you advance a particular skill through use. So it might be in effect that way.

I also like the idea of getting certain kinds of permanent bonuses through achievements, which is similar to what you’re proposing.

I do miss think it was Elderscrolls 2 daggerfall. Where if you wanted to get better at jumping you jumped alot, better at swimming you swam, better at picking locks you picked locks, better swords you used one.

I do too, sort of, but it led to me hopping around like a kangaroo everywhere until I maxed out the skill. True story.

So there is a downside...

But this is a pvx game so just go into pvp and bunny hop aggervating the enemy... speaking of which since many abilities are not TAB target bunny hopping may be effective lol

Stop ruining the game before it’s released dammit.

Genaro

It would be really good to see the game to explore the aspects of the roleplay and class fantasy, to provide a much more immersive and richer experience. Even if, from a experienced player point of view, it has intuitive abilities to use (like using your defensive skills when about to take damage for Tanks, or using hide to past through dangerous enemies) if the game puts it in a interesting and fun way, it sure can enhance the experience.

It doesn't necessarily need to be for all skills, of course, as it could take too much work from devs and could end being tedious to players, but for the class signature abilities would be pretty cool. It isn't a big deal tho if the devs can't manage to put it into the game in time for release, as the game has MANY others complex systems to deal with, so, it'll be fine whatsoever.

EDIT:

Atama wrote: »

(...)

EDIT: I do like the idea of a quest to unlock a secondary class, or change it. That’s another way that might work.

Oh man, I really like the feeling of earning a secondary class, after going through some kind of progress. Reminds me of the old and ilustrious Ragnarok Online. Sometimes it would be a pain in the ass to unlock/achieve the secondary jobs, but, oh boy, it was really worth it. And if Ashes doesn't hand properly a progression system to unlock a secondary class it could lead to a very lackluster shallow content, like unlocking Awakening in BDO, for example. I'm hopeful to see something interesting, at least.

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