Class Balancing?

Argo257

Hello @ all,

i saw the video from lazy peon a couple of days ago followed by the interview with asmongold.
Additionally a friend of mine is already in love with basically everything the game wants to be/do.

From all the information i gathered so far we get 8 classes.
You can have a primary and a secondary class and since you can pick your starting class twice this adds up to a total of 64 possible combinations.

My questions is : How do you plan on balancing this many possibilities? I know there are people out there who can´t hear about Metas anymore, but i guess there will be some combinations that could/will outperform other picks.
For example if i want to play a support class i probably pick a bard and to act kind of like an off-healer i pick cleric as my secondary. What could other bard/... combinations bring to the table? How strong are these other options in comparison?
What would your philosophy be on balacing this game? Would you rather buff weaker combinations or nerf stronger ones?

These are all the questions i wanted to ask.
Thanks in advance and good day to you!

phdmonster

https://ashes101.com/classes

Class balance is for group content only as they want classes to have hard counters.

In addition, there aren't exactly 64 classes - there are 8 classes and choosing a secondary one changes the gameplay of the primary one a little bit, BUT a Fighter + Rogue is still a fighter, a Fighter + Summoner is also still a fighter.

Namil

phdmonster wrote: »

In addition, there aren't exactly 64 classes - there are 8 classes and choosing a secondary one changes the gameplay of the primary one a little bit, BUT a Fighter + Rogue is still a fighter, a Fighter + Summoner is also still a fighter.

Are you sure about that? that's essentially like saying a fighter is a rogue because they use melee weapons, the augments are going to matter enough to the point where each of the subclasses play very differently. I'd argue that there are actually 64 classes rather than just saying 8, especially when it comes to a balancing perspective.

Wandering Mist

Namil wrote: »

phdmonster wrote: »

In addition, there aren't exactly 64 classes - there are 8 classes and choosing a secondary one changes the gameplay of the primary one a little bit, BUT a Fighter + Rogue is still a fighter, a Fighter + Summoner is also still a fighter.

Are you sure about that? that's essentially like saying a fighter is a rogue because they use melee weapons, the augments are going to matter enough to the point where each of the subclasses play very differently. I'd argue that there are actually 64 classes rather than just saying 8, especially when it comes to a balancing perspective.

That's a very broad assumption given that we know hardly anything about the augments except that they alter your class skills in some way. Sure we have a couple of examples but we have no idea if those are on the more conservative or extreme side.

Undead Canuck

Balancing in Ashes of Creation is "group focused".[16]

There will be match ups in 1v1s where one class will be superior to another; and that application should be a rock-paper-scissors dynamic. We want there to be counter-play between the different classes... Instead it's going to be a group focused balance, where as long as you have the diversity of classes present, that's going to be an equal level playing field. It's going to be very dependent on skill and strategy.[16] – Steven Sharif

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Group_dynamics#Balancing

Aardvark

phdmonster wrote: »

https://ashes101.com/classes

Class balance is for group content only as they want classes to have hard counters.

In addition, there aren't exactly 64 classes - there are 8 classes and choosing a secondary one changes the gameplay of the primary one a little bit, BUT a Fighter + Rogue is still a fighter, a Fighter + Summoner is also still a fighter.

Group balance and hard counters just means it won't be truely balanced. But when you group balance there almost always ends up being a best group config and it's almost never 1 of everything.

Loyheta

So if you did watch the Asmongold interview you'd know this. Asmongold asked this question in which Steven said they'd be balancing the game off of 8v8 content and not 1v1. He said there would naturally be paper rock scissors strength and weaknesses because they aren't wanting to reinvent the holy trinity system. So they were going to focus on group-play.

Namil

Wandering Mist wrote: »

That's a very broad assumption given that we know hardly anything about the augments except that they alter your class skills in some way. Sure we have a couple of examples but we have no idea if those are on the more conservative or extreme side.

Judging by the answer Steven gave in the answer to the question at 1:09:22 regarding class augments in the most recent AMA, I'm going to go with it's leaning more toward the latter.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=JBCY-A-GUqI

GoaB

I personally 100% agree with the devs' decision to NOT balance based on 1v1 combat. I have no problem with a rogue type character being able to completely dismantle a caster, or a good caster being able to obliterate a plate wearing toon. This is where the concept of playing with others as a team comes in.