Greetings, glorious adventurers! If you're joining in our Alpha One spot testing, please follow the steps here to see all the latest test info on our forums and Discord!

Limiting Artisan professions

King FoolKing Fool Member
edited July 2020 in General Discussion
Why not limit the whole stuff to 1 gathering + 1 processing or 1 crafting profession? I see more player interaction here, even if it's a bit more annoying. Also gives trader more opportunities to make some money and possibly add to the caravan system if there's very few X gatherer in a node.

Comments

  • WMC51WMC51 Member
    I think learning how to gather something takes a lot less training than turning it i to a finished good.

    I like gathering being open to learn but limiting processing and crafting is good
  • Well, that view also makes sense. I more or less started the post because I believe, that it would have multiple positives on the economy(as said before). In addition I also believe it's a big inconvenience for future botters who will try to use AOC to make money irl. As far as I know processing is limited by freeholds to a certain degree right? So you wouldnt need that limitation there, but my best guess would be: Bots will run around do all gathering professions at the same time to maximize money with random respawns.
  • WMC51WMC51 Member
    King Fool wrote: »
    Well, that view also makes sense. I more or less started the post because I believe, that it would have multiple positives on the economy(as said before). In addition I also believe it's a big inconvenience for future botters who will try to use AOC to make money irl. As far as I know processing is limited by freeholds to a certain degree right? So you wouldnt need that limitation there, but my best guess would be: Bots will run around do all gathering professions at the same time to maximize money with random respawns.

    What about this? Limiting gathering benefits botters more because they can have one with each skill leveled and run around as a group getting all resources where a single player can only gather 1.
  • [/quote]

    What about this? Limiting gathering benefits botters more because they can have one with each skill leveled and run around as a group getting all resources where a single player can only gather 1.[/quote]

    Well yes, that's true but they will then have to take into account the 4x 15$ p.m. as well as accounts getting banned. Probably less profitable.
  • XraelXrael Member
    edited July 2020
    Steven gave the analogy of a tree.

    As you master a profession under an artisan class, it allows you to progress in the other professions under that artisan class.

    So the higher you go up the tree (your main profession), the taller the branches (other professions under your artisan class) that you have access to.

    So players can only truly master ONE profession under an artisan tree. They can progress in the others, but they won't be able to master them all.

    I agree with this as this creates a unique identity for players that master a single profession.
  • So for example a blacksmith cannot start learning herbalism as gathering but mining? Is this the logic behind that statement?
    Steven gave the analogy of a tree.

    As you master a profession under an artisan class, it allows you to progress in the other professions under that artisan class.

    So the higher you go up the tree (your main profession), the taller the branches (other professions under your artisan class) that you have access to.

    So players can only truly master ONE profession under an artisan tree. They can progress in the others, but they won't be able to master them all.

    I agree with this as this creates a unique identity for players that master a single profession.

  • AmistAmist Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Because the professions are interdependent on eachother.

    Allowing a person to go Mining, Smelting and Blacksmithing would completely eliminate the need for people to interact and trade with one another.
  • King FoolKing Fool Member
    edited July 2020
    @amist that's exactly my point which I'm trying to propose, because as it currently stands that is possible. imo there should be at least 1step which you can't fill
  • AmistAmist Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    King Fool wrote: »
    @amist that's exactly my point which I'm trying to propose, because as it currently stands that is possible. imo there should be at least 1step which you can't fill

    If you allow one player to do all three steps of what it takes to make strong items in the game you eliminate the social aspect of doing professions. The current system allows for people to only do one of the three steps.
  • ruMynxruMynx Member
    I don't completely get the desire to not have a character be able to round out their profession (I do agree to limitations).

    I am making a huge assumption here, but this leads to the parts of the games that I dislike. I do not like people buying up all of one good and then reselling it for a superficially inflated price. I would just rather take longer to farm and make what I need than participate in that system.
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Without fully seeing the systems for both, not so comparable

    NW gathering was an interesting variation on the usual, as one progressed in levels within the profession, so did the ability to sight rarer materials. It gave more value as one leveled. In BDO also more materials and greater share of rare materials.
  • XraelXrael Member
    Steven said that players will only be able to master a single artisan class.

    He also said that, based on testing, that he might limit the no. of professions you can master under a single artisan class.

    Look at the references on this page

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Artisan_classes#Artisan_mastery
  • WMC51WMC51 Member
    Hmm I just read it again. So basically crafters can craft anything, processors can process anything, and gatherers can gather anything.

    That feels really off and odd to me.

    Crafting armor, weapons, and jewelry are such different skills but a blacksmith should know how to smelt metal.

    This is the first thing that's felt off to me in this game. I thought rift had a pretty good system as far as how many crafting and gathering skills you could have.
  • WMC51 wrote: »
    Hmm I just read it again. So basically crafters can craft anything, processors can process anything, and gatherers can gather anything.

    That feels really off and odd to me.

    Crafting armor, weapons, and jewelry are such different skills but a blacksmith should know how to smelt metal.

    This is the first thing that's felt off to me in this game. I thought rift had a pretty good system as far as how many crafting and gathering skills you could have.

    It feels off to me too. If restrictions have to exist at all, I would rather they be aligned according to products. A master weaponsmith, for example, needs to have some knowledge of woodworking, pottery, sculpture, leatherworking, chemistry, and masonry, while also having extensive smelting and metalworking knowledge. Arguably, an armorsmith, despite being a different specialization within the metalworking umbrella, needs much the same skills for much the same reason, but uses them differently, and also needs fairly significant tailoring experience. Often these ancillary skills are important to rise to the rank of master, but once there, the balance of what is worth your time shifts. For some components the quality is in the craftsmanship, while for others it is in the material. A lot of mastery is understanding how your materials work so that you can overcome variations in the material (to say nothing of compensating for your own mistakes), and that means knowledge of the underlying processes that get those materials into your shop.

    Personally, I favor systems where the choice of specialization is implicit in the activities the player elects to perform. That is, I become a master weaponsmith by investing the time and resources honing my skills so that I am genuinely a master of my craft. The title, if one exists, is a sign that I have passed a threshold, but there is no reason for this to be exclusionary with other paths and it is not a thing I had to declare in advance--it is just one thing I can do of many. If mastery takes a long time then it should, in fact, take a long time. It should require dedication and commitment. And when it has been achieved, why can't I apply the same passion to something else? I really don't like skill decay as a concept, but I can't argue with its effectiveness as a system--if I need to keep practicing my craft to retain my mastery, then I'm limited not by an arbitrary barrier but by my ability to maintain my skills. If I am able and willing to achieve and maintain three masteries, they why can't I maintain three masteries? If I'm not willing to invest that level of effort then I'll either never finish or I'll lose them. The answer to that question tends to be that it skews the economy in one way or another, but that just means the restriction is there to hide a design flaw; If a handful of players colluding can produce the same result, and the result is so dramatic that it overshadows all other concerns, then it will still happen and people that don't collude are being punished.

    All that aside, it is comforting to see the quote on the wiki from Jeffery Bard revering the Galaxies crafting system. I only played Galaxies for a couple months at launch, so I can't speak to what it became (honestly the first months after release were a paid Beta), but the concept and the possibilities that system represented... I have dreams about that system. Good dreams, if you know what I mean. If that is being held up as the gold standard, I'm not terribly worried. Things might not start where I'd like them to be, but I can have confidence in the direction.
  • WiplasherWiplasher Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    edited July 2020
    The way I understand Steven and what is in the wiki is you can do all three professions. But when you choose a mastery profession you can not master anything in the other 2. You should be able to do all other things that masters can't in those professions.
  • Steven gave the analogy of a tree.

    As you master a profession under an artisan class, it allows you to progress in the other professions under that artisan class.

    So the higher you go up the tree (your main profession), the taller the branches (other professions under your artisan class) that you have access to.

    So players can only truly master ONE profession under an artisan tree. They can progress in the others, but they won't be able to master them all.

    I agree with this as this creates a unique identity for players that master a single profession.

    This is factually untrue.

    Steven said on a livestream earlier this year that you will be able to master all professions under an artisan path, but you will only be able to master things in that artisan path - you can master all of gathering or all of processing or all of crafting. After mastering the first profession each subcequent one is supposed to take longer and longer time to master.
  • AmistAmist Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    phdmonster wrote: »
    Steven gave the analogy of a tree.

    As you master a profession under an artisan class, it allows you to progress in the other professions under that artisan class.

    So the higher you go up the tree (your main profession), the taller the branches (other professions under your artisan class) that you have access to.

    So players can only truly master ONE profession under an artisan tree. They can progress in the others, but they won't be able to master them all.

    I agree with this as this creates a unique identity for players that master a single profession.

    This is factually untrue.

    Steven said on a livestream earlier this year that you will be able to master all professions under an artisan path, but you will only be able to master things in that artisan path - you can master all of gathering or all of processing or all of crafting. After mastering the first profession each subcequent one is supposed to take longer and longer time to master.

    He then said on the discord that we will in fact not be able to master all professions within an artisan tree, however there will be the possibility of mastering multiple
  • grisugrisu Member
    You don't master all crafting professions just because you took blacksmithing, you might master weapon smithing and in turn become good in armour smithing and "miscelanous" smithing. That's what we are talking about. On your way there you might pick up basic skills in other professions as well, but as said, basic ones.

    If you want the best sword ever, you need a person that is a master miner, another that is a master smelter and another that is a master weapon blacksmith.
    (+ other crafting professions for other things oyu need to craft the sword, we don't have details on it yet but we can expect something along the lines of gems or hilts and stuff. The one example we got are armours needing leather parts in the form of padding and such, so you need a 2nd line of profession to make THE best armour possible)
    That's already at least 3(6) people that have to interact to get from ore to product, not counting the need for caravans (or additional crafting lines as said in the previous bracket).

    You can only make it so complicated before it gets tedious. So it is limited and right now from what we know it might sound weird, but there are already restrictions on it contrary to the opening posts assumption.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. - Zekece
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. - Grisu#1819
  • phdmonsterphdmonster Member
    edited July 2020
    Amist wrote: »
    phdmonster wrote: »
    Steven gave the analogy of a tree.

    As you master a profession under an artisan class, it allows you to progress in the other professions under that artisan class.

    So the higher you go up the tree (your main profession), the taller the branches (other professions under your artisan class) that you have access to.

    So players can only truly master ONE profession under an artisan tree. They can progress in the others, but they won't be able to master them all.

    I agree with this as this creates a unique identity for players that master a single profession.

    This is factually untrue.

    Steven said on a livestream earlier this year that you will be able to master all professions under an artisan path, but you will only be able to master things in that artisan path - you can master all of gathering or all of processing or all of crafting. After mastering the first profession each subcequent one is supposed to take longer and longer time to master.

    He then said on the discord that we will in fact not be able to master all professions within an artisan tree, however there will be the possibility of mastering multiple

    Yea, he said it while i was asleep. It got mentioned in discord after i had already made this comment. Information changing yet again...

    Or i just missed it and nobody cared to add it as new information on the wiki pages.
  • ruMynxruMynx Member
    Watching the Lazy Peon video really cleared some of this up for me. I think my understanding was based on multiple misunderstandings. Basically, you can only Master one thing. but you can be fair to middling at almost anything.
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited July 2020
    Here you go.

    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45209/professions-clarified

    This is the what Steven said before.

    Then in the interview with Asmongold, he gave the tree analogy.

    I don't know which one is right anymore.
Sign In or Register to comment.