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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
We need good bad guys, a plea for a solid bounty hunter system ^-^
2for4Sausag3ggMcMuff
Member
Hi I'll start by saying I just spent a good couple days catching up on Ashes of creation after being away for a year or so, and i am absolutely blown away. The depth and the careful thought that is being put into the game's systems gives me the good feels and reassures me that Ashes is a new breed. My only plea is to not too harshly disincentivize criminals. One of my previous favorite mmos was Archeage which had a crime system that was recently changed to be more punishing. Before, people were cautious about their crime points, but now they are overly cautious, many have stopped even bothering stealing peoples goods. The feeling of risk and reward are hardly present anymore because no one wants a full day of jailtime. The Bounty Hunter system looks like a fresh take on a crime system and i like that justice is placed in the hands of the community. I believe risk and reward should be present on both sides however. Some suggestions.
1) Bounty Hunters who are killed by Corrupted players during the bounty hunt should be penalized somehow(small loss of gear 1 or 2 pieces, and/ or loss of gold) this creates a risk for the bounty hunters and it becomes a more niche playstyle, great bounty hunters will rise to the top and develop identity
2) Since there is a risk to Bounty Hunt, it should be rewarding. Either an Npc can give a set amount of gold or items on a successful bounty(boring), or the community can pitch in gold to posted bounties of truly loathed criminals to make it more appealing to bounty hunters(exciting)
3) I'm hoping corrupted players wouldn't drop a full gearset on death, 3-4 pieces seems reasonable however
4) Griefing lowbies should be a bannable offence, just kidding, but there should be harsh crime points for killing low levels and i mean harsh, a level 50 pking a lvl 49 i have no problem with tho.
5) Corrupted players only drop gear on a bounty hunter kill
We need good bad guys, they create fun friction in mmos and add an additional playstyle path to the game for those who choose it. Too heavily punishing these players will lead to them to opt out of that playstyle because its not worth the risk. Then we have a shortage of corrupties and an oversupply of valiant warriors who would never try to steal my stuff.
So I could only come up with 5 points to add to the system and some of those are intertwined, which goes to show how well thought out these systems already are. I am so impressed by the direction of this game. You guys have done amazing work. *sending good vibes and lotsa love* i cannot wait to play ur badass game ^-^
1) Bounty Hunters who are killed by Corrupted players during the bounty hunt should be penalized somehow(small loss of gear 1 or 2 pieces, and/ or loss of gold) this creates a risk for the bounty hunters and it becomes a more niche playstyle, great bounty hunters will rise to the top and develop identity
2) Since there is a risk to Bounty Hunt, it should be rewarding. Either an Npc can give a set amount of gold or items on a successful bounty(boring), or the community can pitch in gold to posted bounties of truly loathed criminals to make it more appealing to bounty hunters(exciting)
3) I'm hoping corrupted players wouldn't drop a full gearset on death, 3-4 pieces seems reasonable however
4) Griefing lowbies should be a bannable offence, just kidding, but there should be harsh crime points for killing low levels and i mean harsh, a level 50 pking a lvl 49 i have no problem with tho.
5) Corrupted players only drop gear on a bounty hunter kill
We need good bad guys, they create fun friction in mmos and add an additional playstyle path to the game for those who choose it. Too heavily punishing these players will lead to them to opt out of that playstyle because its not worth the risk. Then we have a shortage of corrupties and an oversupply of valiant warriors who would never try to steal my stuff.
So I could only come up with 5 points to add to the system and some of those are intertwined, which goes to show how well thought out these systems already are. I am so impressed by the direction of this game. You guys have done amazing work. *sending good vibes and lotsa love* i cannot wait to play ur badass game ^-^
4
Comments
If anything, the penalties may become more severe if the system does not deter enough people.
The world is supposed to feel dangerous I imagine, if there's no threat of my goods being stolen solely because people don't want to be punished, many organic PvP interactions will never take place that would've otherwise.
There cannot be any reward for corruption if the system is to function as a deterrent, which is the intent and full reason why it is so punishing. The devs do not want players to have any benefit from being corrupted
The game should in no way enable any aspect of corruption as a playstyle. It isn’t a niche, and it’s not an alternate way of play, corruption is a punishment.
If you want a corruption friendly area, the players themselves have to make it. The game cannot and should not create any safe spaces for people who have chosen to gain corruption if it wants to have that system be an actual deterrent to griefers.
Adding a game-play style or mechanic, relaxing sanctions, and assuredly adding a reward is counter to its foundational principle.
But I am unaware of the capacity of corrupted players party to intervene. My assumption is bounty hunters will be flagged purple so anyone grouped with the corrupted player will be able to defend them with out penalty.
the societal mark of shame is real and I'm totally for it, criminals should be hunted, should be hated, should be punished by in game systems, should be punished by players. If the system makes in game life unliveable and unrewarding for criminals however, no one will become a criminal, and the complex system means nothing because you could've saved time and given caravans an immunity buff to get a similar result
So many people who comment on these threads who are so clearly anti pvp with "NEVER REWARD CORRUPTION" are so jaded by the potential. The devs came up with a bounty system, so they reward players for hunting corrupted players yet corrupted players can defend themselves without gaining more corruption thus creating a new way to play with in game mechanics designed as intended. With so many different ways to play this game, lets constructively discuss expanding this system. You now have corrupted guy vs bounty hunter, this is a system in-game, now less flush this out. Do not read any further if you are not going to be corrupted or if you or not going to be a bounty hunter because this is not affecting you in any way. Yes do not reward or condone the killing of unwilling participants but let's talk about a bounty hunter vs a corrupted player who did not pk low-level unwilling participants.
You have a bounty system that can reward good bounty hunters, well that can't exist unless you have famous outlaws right? Again, this is for a conversation on how to make this system work and not for people not interested in it.
I've been bad b4, that punishment is too light hehe
Hmmmm,
1. Bounty Hunters should not share the same Risks as corrupted players, maybe a slap on the wrist or reduced bounty if killed by your bounty.
2. With the system expressed by AoC in mind there won't be a risk for the hunters, just a way to keep the corrupted in their place. So High rewards shouldn't be a thing either.
3. Corrupted players will "Maybe" drop a piece on death I can imagine a 20% chance to drop a piece at near max corruption, just due to the amount of people on a server (10k).
4. Sure, take level and gearscore into consideration when flagging on characters and scale the corruption points based on how much of a bully one is.
5. On the fence with this one, Maybe have a reduced chance to drop gear depending on how many people are involved with your death. Each person that hits you, heals the person that hits you, buffs the person, etc. should be taken into account if possible. And just reduced the chance to drop gear down to 1% if applicable.
Maybe a 50% chance to drop gear on death by bounty hunter, 20% by a random solo player, which can be reduced down to 1% if more players are added to the equation.
I hard disagree because the player base will be too high, the only situations what you suggesting with the bank heist vs sheriff only works in situations where RP rules are in place, GTA RP servers comes to mind. The bounty system will only be a way for players to self regulate themselves without constant attention from GM's. When you start putting things like Good vs Bad it just sounds like faction PvP.
Also bounty hunters aren't good guys, they're bounty hunters, they hunt corrupted for bounties not justice. There's no honest bad guys if you initiate an attack in cold blood for financial gain or emotional gain you are corrupted.
You're contradicting yourself here with "they can and they must defend themselves" and "the corrupted person who chooses to fight back", can't have both.
You have every right to disagree, the game isn't out and isn't finished. We will truly never know unless we get to test it out, therefore it is all just discussion of which ideas are born.
No, not really... Player A (corrupted) and Player B (bounty hunter). Player B is attacking player A because it is an allowed system and is promoted for B to hunt A, but player A can freely attack B with no further penality, therefore, is incentivized to do so if he/she desires to obtain said title for being a corrupted player or just wants to stay corrupted just enough to be a known villain character but not a dick that keeps killing innocents and gets heavily corrupted. In this situation, everything is already in the game as an actual option besides my hypothetical title reword for a bad guy questline that asks you to do x things to prove you are bad. So by me saying that Player A can and should defend themselves is not a contradiction. It is all relative to the situation. If player A accidentally became corrupted they would most likely run from player B or just let player B kill them. In this situation player A wants player B to come around and wants to fight them and enjoys it and player B loved being able to hunt player A and they go back and forth and it becomes a fun cat and mouse game not messing with anyone else and if player A kills player B enough times then he is just better.
They already added a "game-play style or mechanic" with the bounty hunter system though. I'm sure plenty of people would love to be bounty hunters, but why would anyone ever PK? Meaning an entire in game system, that has probably had dozens of hours poured into it (if not more) will never fully be utilized.
The corruption system already seems flawed.
I can already see a way people can use it to grief endlessly.
1. be a neutral player
2. have some friends that want to player kill hiding close by
3. go harass a player to the point where they either want to log off or kill you in frustration because you are taking their resources or their mobs or whatever else
4. they turn to attack you, but you don't attack back and let yourself be killed
5. that player is now corrupted
6. your entire guild/party/friends all jump the player and kill him, incurring no penalty unto themselves, and he cannot fight back because he'd gain MORE corruption for fighting back (assuming your friends/guild/party are non-combatants)
7. you get his gear and his resources and have intentionally harassed him to the point where he might not even want to play the game anymore
8. repeat ad nauseum
So in this scenario the player has no access to a basic Ignore, has the mentality of a preeteen, and is also blind to the group of greens in the area?
If they’re that bad off then they’ve got bigger problems to deal with than some corruption.
Not to mention if one of you kills the player they’re no longer going to be corrupted when they come back, probably with friends, and it’s highly unlikely you would have gotten any gear from them because the penalties after the first kill are minor.
That's just being disingenuous as Steven himself has said there will be times where you just want to kill someone, start a guild fight, with people who are taking your spawns even if it means being corrupted. Players will do it, because no one likes being griefed for hours on end. If some guy is constantly making your leveling experience hell, and is literally following you around the world (because there is no fast travel and he can do so), why wouldn't you kill him? You don't know that the party of greens around the area is with him or will even pay you any mind.
Only Combatants or Corrupted. No Greens.
The design philosophy of AoC is straightforward. This a PvX not PvP or a PvE game. This means that all sides need to be relevant. PvE players far outnumber PvP players within the genre. They are the foundation that the game is built on but can’t change the world beyond the foundational states. PvP players are the drivers of the game. They make the systems evolve and change how the world is shaped. Both sides are needed to make the game feel alive. PvE only and the game will go stale or feel lifeless. PvP only and there will not be enough of a player base or positive community outlook for the game to feel alive and welcoming.
PvE: Every player is a Non-combatant (Green) by default. This is the start state and is the baseline for every core system. They can not advance the game beyond the foundational stages without the help of Combatants (Purple).
Baseline Encouraged Core Gameplay
• Gathering
• Processing
• Crafting
• Exploring
• Adventuring (vs. NPC's)
• the standard PvE experience.
Rewards
• Loot
• Resources
• Experience
• Can’t gain Corruption
Risks
• NPC's can kill the player and grant Experience Debt.
• The environment can kill the play and grant Experience Debt.
• Combatants (Purple) and Corrupted (Red) players can kill the player and take a percentage of their carried resources.
• Attack a Non-Combatant (Green) or a Combatant (Purple) and become a Combatant (Purple).
PvP: Every player can choose to flag as a Combatant (Purple). This is the intended baseline for change within the world.
Baseline Encouraged Core Gameplay
• All PvE Gameplay
• World PvP: Combatant vs. Combatant
• Caravans: Guard vs. Highwayman
• Guild Wars
• Node Sieges
• Castle Sieges
• Arenas
• Duels
Rewards
• All of the PvE Rewards
• No Corruption for PvP within these systems
• Half the Experience Debt penalties of a Non-combatant (Green) when killed.
Risks
• NPC's can kill the player and grant Experience Debt.
• The environment can kill the play and grant Experience Debt.
• Combatants (Purple) and Corrupted (Red) players can kill the player and take a percentage of their carried resources.
• Corruption: Kill a Non-combatant and become a Corrupted (Red).
If I saw a group of greens all gathering in peace with each other, my first thought is to vacate because 10v1 isn’t feasible.
If you approach that group of greens as ten individual mugging targets, then it’s your fault for getting corrupted and killed after you murder their buddy.
If someone is game-stalking you, you have multiple corruption-free options:
1) Report them for harassment, there will be GMs in the game
2) Have your guild declare a war on their guild, kill them without penalty
3) Call for assistance from your friends and guildies and wipe the floor with the group
4) Go somewhere they can’t follow, a freehold or a guild hall or a castle or instanced housing. Anywhere with permissions will do
Yeah some people will be fine with taking a bit of a corruption hit to clear someone out of an area they want. That doesn’t mean corruption isn’t a penalty.
Ooooooo I never put a lot of thought into this but selling yourself out to guilds as a professional antagonist could be a good side hustle for a bad guy player.
Also please be wary of Caeryl, this person doesn't seem interested in proper forum thread discussion. He/she just seems to want their input viewed as right, vs just trying to have a constructive conversation to grow a topic.
Hell yea! If we can be farmed freely and we have to risk it all for our small rewards then exclusivity should be easy. Besides the Ultima Online pickpocket skill is perfect for this. It had very high risk because once you stole something you became grey to that person and could be tracked by them and kill within a small window of time and the likely hood of getting something good in the time it took to sneak up, actually peek into the bag of a person without being detected and dig around to find something good was tedious but so rewarding when you got something good or it lead to some fun back and forth fights.
First off, I am sorry for cutting out most of your very good post, but we can all scroll up for it. Secondly, thank you for some more information to carry a conversation and not just trying to have a forum pissing contest.
I do not speak for everyone on what is clearly my view of the "bad buy player" role but I do want to say that I agree the game as it is right now is as balanced for all levels of play as it can organically be. I believe that the strongest point of this is that from what we see and hear about the game as it is, is that it is very organic. Now, I can only speak on the threads I am a part of, and they are all focused on player vs player information as I feel player vs environment and ai is a few hours of game time from being understood and mapped out to the point of paint by numbers easy. I have always seen player vs player the larger scale daily fun factor that keeps me entertained.
You did leave out a few other things but you covered everything needed to be mentioned to flush out the role of pvp in a game and it impacts. I know my own personal view on things like the bounty system and corruption are going beyond what they are intended but that is because I am playing the game in my head and imagining more and wanting more and discussing it here on a thread with what is supposed to be likeminded people with the same interest and not people just wanting to say "no it is wrong, not what is intended, never going to happen". We know the rules, we can read... we are having conversations, and we hope maybe a dev may see our interests and bring something up in a meeting and spark an idea, because that is how progress is made and not by shutting down peoples right to think and talk.
You presented some structured information for us to build off and I again thank you for kinda refreshing everyone on things should we get too far away from what is the intent of the current system. Would you have any views on pvp related things that may involve tweaking a system or adding something from another game that AoC could integrate and improve upon?
The thing with going corrupt imo.. there no benefits in doing so..
which makes me wonder if this bounty system will work in the current settings.
Corruption players need to stuff do get or achieve for going corrupt.
highly suggest quest's or pvp goals for corrupt players in order to keep things balanced
I’d have a discussion if everything put forth wasn’t exaggerated, wrong, or plain dishonest. I’m happy to concede points if they’re based on fact and logic, but I’m not budging when it’s just a handful of people who refuse to understand why the system functions like it does.
PvP over resources isn’t griefing, but neither is farming in an area you’ve erroneously decided is “yours”.
When you see both “corruption is too punishing” and “corruption is not punishing enough” threads, then it seems like corruption is probably in a decent spot.