Is self-defence even possible?

Hello everyone, here are many threads about the combat system and its flaws, but after reading them I still don't get the point behind that one part of it.

For example:
I am gathering ressources and a greedy player wants them too. So he decides to attack and probably kill me.
If I got it right he will be flagged as a combatant in this moment.

And now I got some options:
1st - Fight back = I will get flagged as a combatant
2nd - Run away = I would miss those ressources
3rd - Get killed = death penalty

So do I get it right, that no matter what I do if a player attacks me I get punished, too? Where Is the point behind that? If he attack me and I kill him in return, why should I get punished for his "mistake" ?

I can see people running around the world with low level characters, attacking normal players while gathering or leveling or what ever until they die or fight back to get them flagged.

Do I get it right or am I totally wrong?

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Comments

Jexz

You become a combatant for defending yourself. You do not become corrupted for killing him because he was also a combatant. He may drop some of his resources if he has any so you may get rewarded. He will get punished if he had any resources on him as well as an EXP deficit.

Now my question is If he has no resources and is LvL 50 since you can't drop a lvl according to the wiki. What is the risk going around at lvl 50 with nothing to drop and hitting people looking for someone to hit you back so you can take their loot?

Noaani

Baku wrote: »

Do I get it right or am I totally wrong?

Yes and no.

You are right in terms of the facts.

Thing is, each of those options also has a benefit to you over the other options. So you have a set of three possibilities, each with good points and bad points. There is no way to avoid all of the bad points (that is kind of necessary for a PvX game), and so you get to decide which option to take that has the best good points and the least bad negative points for you at that point in time.

An example may be that you don't expect to see any other players in the area for a while. In this case, being flagged as a combatant for a short period of time isn't going to negatively impact you at all.

Or perhaps you know there is another patch of the same resources just over the hill - you can just run off and harvest there instead.

Or, maybe you have gear on that you are about to replace, no raw materials on you, and plan on farming some mobs for a few hours for some certs - in this case the penalty from just letting him kill you would be drastically reduced in terms of it's impact on you.

The thing to remember is, when a player attacks you, there is no way to opt out of it.

Jubilum

4th - Kill him = no penalty. You may still be flagged as a combatant for a short period of time.

TheLegend27

Becoming combatant is fine IMO since you can kill other combatants without repercussions. I'm not sure if you still suffer a death penalty if you are killed by a player while non-combatant.

Noaani

TheLegend27 wrote: »

I'm not sure if you still suffer a death penalty if you are killed by a player while non-combatant.

The death penalty for being killed by a player while non-combatant is 100% of the death penalty listed on the wiki.

Being killed while a combatant is 50%.

Being killed while corrupted is 400%.

Baku1

Okay I see what you mean.

So fighting back is always the better option.

But I still hope there will be a "fight setting" where you can disable hitting players that attacked you, if they maybe attack you while farming and you would hit them accidentally.

Noaani

Baku wrote: »

Okay I see what you mean.

So fighting back is always the better option.

But I still hope there will be a "fight setting" where you can disable hitting players that attacked you, if they maybe attack you while farming and you would hit them accidentally.

You can't accidently attack a player.

Jubilum

Baku wrote: »

Okay I see what you mean.

So fighting back is always the better option.

But I still hope there will be a "fight setting" where you can disable hitting players that attacked you, if they maybe attack you while farming and you would hit them accidentally.

It is your choice. If my backpack is empty I would just stand there so he takes the corruption, I could careless about the XP lose (easy come, easy go). If I was carrying the family jewels maybe not, it would depend on my chance of beating him.

Noaani

jubilum wrote: »

Baku wrote: »

Okay I see what you mean.

So fighting back is always the better option.

But I still hope there will be a "fight setting" where you can disable hitting players that attacked you, if they maybe attack you while farming and you would hit them accidentally.

It is your choice. If my backpack is empty I would just stand there so he takes the corruption, I could careless about the XP lose (easy come, easy go). If I was carrying the family jewels maybe not, it would depend on my chance of beating him.

Indeed.

To me, this is the best thing about the corruption system - how you react will depend completely on your exact current circumstance. It may be best for you to fight back, it may be best for you to run, it may be best for you to let them gain corruption - regardless, you have no real time to think about it.

This is the kind of thing I want to see actually in combat - rather than a rotation, different circumstances that we could be in will drastically alter how we do things.

Jubilum

noaani wrote: »

jubilum wrote: »

Baku wrote: »

Okay I see what you mean.

So fighting back is always the better option.

But I still hope there will be a "fight setting" where you can disable hitting players that attacked you, if they maybe attack you while farming and you would hit them accidentally.

It is your choice. If my backpack is empty I would just stand there so he takes the corruption, I could careless about the XP lose (easy come, easy go). If I was carrying the family jewels maybe not, it would depend on my chance of beating him.

Indeed.

To me, this is the best thing about the corruption system - how you react will depend completely on your exact current circumstance. It may be best for you to fight back, it may be best for you to run, it may be best for you to let them gain corruption - regardless, you have no real time to think about it.

This is the kind of thing I want to see actually in combat - rather than a rotation, different circumstances that we could be in will drastically alter how we do things.

Oh hell no, you agreed with me. I think I'm going to faint or go to bed since my day will get no better than this.

Baku1

I just asked myself another question for this topic.

Will there be save spots like save houses, shelters or protected areas around spawn areas where you can run to or just go to when you need a break or want to afk for a while?

TheLegend27

jubilum wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

jubilum wrote: »

Baku wrote: »

Okay I see what you mean.

So fighting back is always the better option.

But I still hope there will be a "fight setting" where you can disable hitting players that attacked you, if they maybe attack you while farming and you would hit them accidentally.

It is your choice. If my backpack is empty I would just stand there so he takes the corruption, I could careless about the XP lose (easy come, easy go). If I was carrying the family jewels maybe not, it would depend on my chance of beating him.

Indeed.

To me, this is the best thing about the corruption system - how you react will depend completely on your exact current circumstance. It may be best for you to fight back, it may be best for you to run, it may be best for you to let them gain corruption - regardless, you have no real time to think about it.

This is the kind of thing I want to see actually in combat - rather than a rotation, different circumstances that we could be in will drastically alter how we do things.

Oh hell no, you agreed with me. I think I'm going to faint or go to bed since my day will get no better than this.

lol

JoelTGM

So if you defend yourself, you are flagged as a combatant. What does that even mean if you can attack players who aren't even flagged? If I'm wandering around and see a player flagged as a combatant, what should I do with this information?

TheLegend27

noaani wrote: »

TheLegend27 wrote: »

I'm not sure if you still suffer a death penalty if you are killed by a player while non-combatant.

The death penalty for being killed by a player while non-combatant is 100% of the death penalty listed on the wiki.

Being killed while a combatant is 50%.

Being killed while corrupted is 400%.

I'll take ur word for it (on the former) but is there anywhere confirming this? I know the Wiki isn't the "God-source" but idk where it's stated a non-combatant player that's killed by a combatant loses 100% exp (I know the Wiki states something like this under "Player Death", but idk if this Non-C vs C is a special case, IYGM).

On another note: this makes the system a bit exploitable (maybe). Attack a Mob that's above your weight class, when you're about to die, attack a random player to only suffer 50% of the consequences. Hmm.

Noaani

TheLegend27 wrote: »

noaani wrote: »

TheLegend27 wrote: »

I'm not sure if you still suffer a death penalty if you are killed by a player while non-combatant.

The death penalty for being killed by a player while non-combatant is 100% of the death penalty listed on the wiki.

Being killed while a combatant is 50%.

Being killed while corrupted is 400%.

I'll take ur word for it (on the former) but is there anywhere confirming this? I know the Wiki isn't the "God-source" but idk where it's stated a non-combatant player that's killed by a combatant loses 100% exp (I know the Wiki states something like this under "Player Death", but idk if this Non-C vs C is a special case, IYGM).

On another note: this makes the system a bit exploitable (maybe). Attack a Mob that's above your weight class, when you're about to die, attack a random player to only suffer 50% of the consequences. Hmm.

It isn't 100% experience, it is 100% of the death penalty - which will be either a flat amount of experience debt, or a level based percentage.

The percentages are to show how severe the penalty is due to character status. Non-combatant gets the full penalty, combatant gets half, corrupted gets more.

If players do start attacking other players to gain combatant status when about to die, it wouldn't be hard to combat it if Intrepid wanted to (this may well be considered legitimate use of the game systems).

They have specifically said that they may differ the penalties for PvP and PvE death in the future.

Baku1

Baku wrote: »

I just asked myself another question for this topic.

Will there be save spots like save houses, shelters or protected areas around spawn areas where you can run to or just go to when you need a break or want to afk for a while?

Does anyone know something about that?

Noaani

Baku wrote: »

Baku wrote: »

I just asked myself another question for this topic.

Will there be save spots like save houses, shelters or protected areas around spawn areas where you can run to or just go to when you need a break or want to afk for a while?

Does anyone know something about that?

You can lock yourself in your house (literally locking the door).

Presumably if you have an apartment you will be safe there.

You are unable to be attacked if you are manning an in node consignment store.

That is about all I can think of.

Jubilum

JoelTGM wrote: »

So if you defend yourself, you are flagged as a combatant. What does that even mean if you can attack players who aren't even flagged? If I'm wandering around and see a player flagged as a combatant, what should I do with this information?

It simply mean he is interest in a fair fight with someone with similar thoughts. This is not unusual in most mmo's, most allow pvp between consenting players. The difference in AoC is that unlike other mmo's where if you are a non-combatant you can not be attacked, but is AoC it doesn't make any difference.

Baku1

noaani wrote: »

Baku wrote: »

Baku wrote: »

I just asked myself another question for this topic.

Will there be save spots like save houses, shelters or protected areas around spawn areas where you can run to or just go to when you need a break or want to afk for a while?

Does anyone know something about that?

You can lock yourself in your house (literally locking the door).

Presumably if you have an apartment you will be safe there.

You are unable to be attacked if you are manning an in node consignment store.

That is about all I can think of.

Okay that's enough information for now.

Thank you

Noaani

JoelTGM wrote: »

So if you defend yourself, you are flagged as a combatant. What does that even mean if you can attack players who aren't even flagged? If I'm wandering around and see a player flagged as a combatant, what should I do with this information?

Nothing, necessarily.

If a player is flagged as a combatant, that means they probably just killed someone that tried to kill them (or at least killed someone that fought back). If they are harvesting or grinding and you don't want a fight, you can probably assume you will get one if you intrude - they have proven very recently that they will fight to keep their spot (or to take it).

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