Why will Ashes succeed where other MMOs failed?

JoelTGM

I'm personally very excited for the game, but started to think of the other MMOs I've been excited for that never took off the way I thought they would. For example I was excited for Warhammer online and Age of conan. Warhammer especially looked really good to me but for some reason seemed to be missing something that made me lose interest quickly. I don't even know why I didn't like these games or why they failed. What do you guys think? I want Ashes to succeed and being reminded why others failed could be helpful to the devs.

George_Black

If there is a lot of diverse player testing and feedback and if the devs take that in consideration, then yes, because the philosophy behind this mmos world is based on player driven experiences. And that, as opposed to all the ez story question + dungeon runs + battlegrounds mmos out there, is an endless game.


Did everything? I doubt it. But take your friends on a new server with new classes and experience that differently shaped world.
Heres another 6-12 months of great mmo gameplay.

Namil

In my opinion there were core elements of past MMOs that were under developed but pushed out away because of pressure from investors, Ashes for a start doesn’t have this and they can implement the features at their own pace and release it when it is actually ready.

On top of this, a lot of the MMOs have played it pretty safe in terms of what they’re offering to the players because of how much WoW linearised gameplay but Ashes seems to be bringing a lot of ideas to the table that were lost over the past decade and a half and getting a lot of feedback from the community to make sure it’s done well. I don’t think it’s enough to just make an MMO, I won’t say the ideas in Ashes are super innovative but the game itself is an innovative take on MMOs as of recent and that’s why I think I it will succeed.

It’s catering for so many groups, saying and showing all the right things that I just can’t see it failing. I think aslong as were patient, it will be a very good and refreshing game.

Samson

George Black wrote: »

If there is a lot of diverse player testing and feedback and if the devs take that in consideration, then yes, because the philosophy behind this mmos world is based on player driven experiences. And that, as opposed to all the ez story question + dungeon runs + battlegrounds mmos out there, is an endless game.


Did everything? I doubt it. But take your friends on a new server with new classes and experience that differently shaped world.
Heres another 6-12 months of great mmo gameplay.

It's great that the devs are open to player feedback and are transparent in their development process... but I also think that it is imperative that they don't fall into the trap of listening to everything presented by players.. and mainly focus on their initial vision. Too much deviation (caving to the mob) from their intended vision for this game could prove to be catastrophic.

Drag13

In all honesty we just don't know if Ashes of creation will succeed. We are probably 1 to 2 years out before an actual launch of AoC. There is just so much that could happen between now and then that it's fine to be skeptical. Although the reason everyone is so hopeful for this MMO is what it's offering and who's offering it. Ashes promises to take many great systems that people have always wanted, and put them together so they can produce a genuine living world. But not only that. Steven Sharif, the game's Creative Director, is a hardcore MMO fan, and more than anyone else he desire the creation of a truly great MMO (you can hear it in his voice).

So Intrepid only has to stick with what it's saying, it's not about what other games have done in the past to make them fail. If they put in 80% - 100% of what is being promised in the game, stick with Steven Sharif's philosophies for the game, and maybe take (a little) feedback from their community, then I don't see how they can fail. Though just as Steven Sharif advertises we should just keep an eye on the game, and when launch day comes we can judge for ourselves.

Jexz

I really like the pay structure i'm fine with a monthly sub and I think MTX transactions are the best compromise to a cash shop. Given the entry costs I probably will give the game a shot but I don't expect retention. I'm slowly finding out this game is not for me. There are things I'm willing to compromise on but currently that list is too high and one that I don't want to compromise. You can't build a game to please everyone. 2 years is a long ways who knows...

Drag13

Jexz wrote: »

There are things I'm willing to compromise on but currently that list is too high and one that I don't want to compromise.

@Jexz I AM NOT ATTACKING YOU AT ALL. Could you please give specific examples from your list, I'm really just curious. They may be things I haven't thought about.

Wandering Mist

For me the answer is simple - a sense of adventure. One of the biggest draws to the mmorpg genre is being able to explore an entirely different world, filled with interesting and dangerous creatures, and adventuring out into the wilderness to discover what lies beyond.

A lot of modern mmorpgs lack this because of how safe and stagnant the world is. Once you've been to a place there is very rarely a need to go back there, and they make a point of railroading you on a linear path (through quest chains) towards max level. There's no advanturing, no exploration, just a straight shot from A to B to C.

Ashes looks to rectify this by limiting fast travel, encouraging exploration and making the world dangerous through open world PvP.

Jexz

I don't feel attacked at all. I just feel super negative pointing it all out but you asked so here is my opinion.
My last MMO if you can call it that was BDO so for me that's the competition.
The combat is something I am willing to compromise on AoC might very well be able to beat or be on par as bdo but i'm just skeptical. BDO does combat really well It has Frame balancing flaws so there is room for improvement but still big shoes to fill.

I do not believe you will be able to keep up gear wise competitively with raiders through PvP alone
Ideally i'd love it if I could gear up through normalized PvP arena or BR but this is not the case so I will be forced into PvE to enjoy PvP at the higher end. Is the higher end even attainable ?

Now two systems I hate in BDO the karma system and the enhancing system I do not want to compromise on. If the combat isn't as good and AoC yet has the same things I don't like in BDO why don't I just keep playing BDO. I'm not with out pens I just don't have all pen C9 to compete. I am sick of spending so much time PvE just so I can enjoy PvP.

As it stands in AoC a non combatant can fight a corrupted player and the corrupted player is penalized for defending themselves. This leave people open to what is called karma bombing in BDO. You can be at your grind spot and someone just starts grinding over top of you and you are helpless to defend your spot be cause you will be punished in doing so. Basically people are using the anti Griefing system to grief you. This would be easily fixed if they changed it so a non combatant who fights a corrupted player becomes a combatant.

The other is the same RNG enhancement system that BDO uses is planned for AoC. We don't know the % and we don't know the gear power gaps we probably wont even know this on release. This is all speculation but I do believe people who play the market or are in hard core Raid guilds will easily out gear those who focus on PvP. With out a gear cap or one that is difficult but at least reasonably attained people who focus on PvE and or the market will smash people who focus on PvP due to gear alone. Forcing me into playing the game in a way I don't really enjoy. These issues probably will not pop up for at least a year after playing. But i'm almost certain they will be issues for me.

Game is still 2 years away it might not be as bad as I think it will be. But from what I have read it has the potential to be worse. Legendary gear will be hard to acquire and only a few guilds will have access to the raid bosses and with the need for bases to repair there is no incentive for a guild to sell. It actually promotes them to hoard. At least in BDO everyone has access to the base boss gear to enhance it. As well BDO has tierd NW.
AoC will have Arenas but again you can't gear up through them.

The game will have issues with Hackers bots and RMT. I think the devs will handle these issues better than BDO has but they will still be issues. Endless gear grinds just makes it all worse because you will end up fighting these people.

So yeah I will probably play it but I doubt ill get a year out of it.
There is two ways to retain players endless gear grinds or great pvp I believe these devs are going for the endless gear grind. You can't have both because one ruins the other for the majority of players. PvP'ers are the minority so I understand going for the endless gear grind.

They could toss in legendary rare PvP sets that can drop on death for some true risk vs reward and old school mmo feel . That way the Power creep would be more inclusive while still being elusive. The current version of risk reward looks to be grinding lottery tickets and then your reward is smashing those who don't get a winning ticket.

For some this will be the MMO they are looking for but I don't think its the one for me
Hope i'm wrong.

Hansrutger

I think that AoC is going to be THE MMORPG to play not because it is inventing new things. Only thing I can see "new" is node system and in itself it's very unique, taking something you would find in strategy games of micro managing cities/countries and putting it in an MMO is a risky but really cool idea. But the main reason of possible success is because other MMORPGs are just killing themselves. If you really think about it, many of the features presented in AoC is just things that used to be in our favorite games and that's why I think it will be successful.

I do really hope that they will continue like that and not forget their roots like many other games do.

Aardvark

Define fail as most MMOs make their full cost back within a couple months of launch...some make it back just in preorders. As being a good game that closes after a couple years making millions and millions of dollars is not my defination of fail

JoelTGM

Aardvark wrote: »

Define fail as most MMOs make their full cost back within a couple months of launch...some make it back just in preorders. As being a good game that closes after a couple years making millions and millions of dollars is not my defination of fail

I mean not just doing well for a couple months but actually continuing to grow it's player population years after release, and then retaining those numbers for years after.