Raids - bis and similar stuff

Tragnar

Hello,
to start off I want to say that I am really looking forward to this game and my questions here are to help me draw a picture of the direction the game is about to embark on.

From what I understand:
- Raids will give better loot based on the performance
- Loot is material and pattern based (presence of master gatherer for the foe facing is required) with a small RNG chance to drop completed items
- Bis items are tied to the enemy that you face
- No DPS meters
- Leaderboards for dungeons, raids

So my questions/topics:
1 - Does the improved loot table mean increased power/quality of the loot or just higher quantity and higher chance of already completed items?
- In other words - Will playing better be rewarded by more power in the final item (either crafted or just looted) or more wealth (just more materials and more frequent drops of completed items)?

2 - How will the bis gear against enemies look? Will it be straight bonuses "against this type" or some kind of defenses/penetration stats?

3 - Will the gear have "stages" of power - What I mean will there be weaker and stronger versions of the same item?

4 - Will there be weaker "more universal" items and stronger specialized ones?

5 - How far the no DPS meters mentality will go? Since leaderboards are going to be an included feature what tools will players have to figure out what gear, skills, secondary archetypes are best to push their ranking?

CaptnChuck

1) We don't know for sure yet. But its most likely going to be improved power loot or a combination of both.

2) Steven did mention, towards the end of his interview with Asmongold, that enchanting your gear with certain types of enchants, will make you stronger against diff types of enemies. Fire enchant will make you stronger against enemies in a volcano node.

3) Don't think so.

4) Items have set bonuses. Some of these bonuses will be better for PvP and some for PvE. Also, the stats of an item are determined by the crafter that crafts it.

5) Steven is not completely against dps meters. He merely gave his stance on it. If the community prefers one, then he will add it. Personally, I want some kind of personal dps meter. Something that only comes on when you're practicing on training dummies. But the vast majority of the AoC community, doesn't want there to be any type of dps meters in the game, as shown in this poll here: https://strawpoll.com/7hyq1vcz7

As for figuring out your secondary class, that shouldn't be something that you do for leader-boards/ranking. You should pick a secondary that you enjoy the flavor and play-style of. As for gear, you can allocate stats as you want. Obviously, diff types of gear will have limits on the amount of a certain stat you can gain from that type of gear. For example, heavy armor is primarily geared towards physical dmg mitigation. You can add some points of dmg and magic resistance to it, but it will be limited.

Theory-crafting is going to play a huge role in AoC.

Tragnar

1 - thanks - hopefully future updates will shed some light on this
2 - I forgot about that - thanks
3 - Item scarcity is good so i share your hope
4 - This was probably too specified question too early - can't wait for item update info
5 - I most sincerely hope that discussion about some kind of performance tools (dps meter) is held - all of this depends if players can buff another players in any way - as for the poll I don't think that data has any value because the amount of voters is extremely small (slightly larger guild size)

I sadly admit that topic about dps meters tends to get toxic rather quickly, because it is a clash of certain form of elitism (trying to be the best you can be) and giving out participation awards for joining. I just hope that this can be settled somewhere in the middle, where trying to be good at the game actually matters and at the same time not transforming players into dps values for guilds.

If the leaderboards and better rewards by clearing harder content are going to be a real thing - the dps meters are going to exist, it just depends if they are going to be entirely based on the internet/private discords or in some form inside the game

As for choosing secondary class - there will always be "best" choice - it just depends how often the bonuses of secondary classes are going to change and thus if it is going to be worth changing it

Theorycraft is definitely going to be a big thing, the question is in what areas the theorycrafting is going to be the most prominent

3am

As for DPS meter this was recently in the DPS meter forum post.
StevenSharif
July 29 edited July 30
"Hello friends! I love reading all of the comments and opinions here. There was also a very large thread on dps meters A little while back, where I felt Noaani articulated the position in favor of DPS meters very well.

My decision is not to allow DPS meters nor add-ons. I feel we have adequate measures in place to prevent a majority of potential third party trackers. I know this subject has passionate voices on both sides and I respect the various opinions and positions many of you have expressed ❤️"

From the "no damage meter" thread.

Tragnar

I read that already, because I asked how far are they willing to go in this mentality.

• "How far the no DPS meters mentality will go?"

It just matters if they will even hide damage numbers from screen or ban any screen recording software (which means the game will not able to be streamed). As long they show the damage and the rewards for doing good is there then players will figure out a way to measure that

3am

He does say no add-ons or third party programs. You'll be able to stream but I would expect anyone "caught" cheating and using such programming to get around it would be punished, or so I would hope.

Tragnar

That's the question I have - if they will go in the Riot Vanguard route to prevent people from measuring their dps (in the extreme) or even writing down on paper all the dmg that you did in a boss fight in your recording.

I know this sounds ridiculous, but you can never truly stop people from smuggling alcohol and tobacco to places where it is banned

3am

I believe there will be a combat log. You should be able to parse your DPS yourself. I think the intention is to prevent mass analysis of all the combinations of classes, skills, races, and religions. That way the society can worry more about playing the game than checking wiki notes for the best loadouts. Maybe the is that it'll take so long to run the numbers that a new update will hit and ruin them anyway.

Tragnar

If combat log is going to be included then it is just matter of time when a website that analyzes logs to give dps - question is if such website is then going to be taken down by dmca and only desktop apps will be just the only option left

3am

I'm hoping they'll make it not worth the risk or effort. It's a different direction, and it's fresh. But I understand holding onto the normal programs of comparison in MMOs.

Tragnar

I understand the notion to protect bad players or players that have no intention to do PvE - I would just want to know how far they want to go against players that go the extra mile to play better than others

CaptnChuck

@Tragnar

Oh i forgot to mention, there will be combat logs in this game. Its not a dps meter, but its something.

Tragnar

@CaptainChuck So Post combat analysis of raid fights is going to be a supported thing (doesnt matter if ingame or outside of it)?

CaptnChuck

Tragnar wrote: »

@CaptainChuck So Post combat analysis of raid fights is going to be a supported thing (doesnt matter if ingame or outside of it)?

Again, there isn't much info on this topic on the wiki. It merely states that there will be combat logs in the game. We will have to wait and see.