Open world dungeon question/concerns

Grails

I posted this on a different discussion, but it was under Support, so I didn't think that was the right place to start, but I said this

I have concerns about several of the systems surrounding open world dungeons. I will likely want to pvp and pve. I will probably want to play 10 hours a week. I want to be in a guild, but probably only a smaller one, like 10 people tops.

If one of the big guilds of the server decide dungeon X that has dragon mob Y in it is worth farming all the time for certain potion mats or something, even when they vastly out level the mobs, and I go in with my party of guildmates to try to get some levels/rewards. What stops the high level people from just taking everything? I have no pack of people to call on to help. They don't have to kill me to ruin the experience, they can just follow us and kill everything we tag. If they can kill a mob easily, while we meet the level requirements and take 30 seconds to kill a mob, the tagging doesn't help us, they'll do a large % of the damage quickly and take the drop.

Then, what's to stop them from taking every boss kill? Just easily get to and sit in the boss area. We worked our butts off to get to the boss, we pull, they can then kick our assess while the boss also beats us up, then they take the kill while we rez or whatever, or just out dps us and take the boss drop too. There's no risk vs reward for them or us, we have no recourse to stop them they out gear and out level us, they have nothing to lose until corruption really kicks in. They can do it several times, or switch out guildies while the others farm mobs to reduce corruption, and repeat.

Also, what's the respawn times for bosses going to be like? Will the boss even be there when we finally make it? If it's a short timer and the dungeon is huge, like we've seen, people will just sit in the boss room and kill it over and over, but if it's long respawn, we'll get there and it will be dead already, and either we wait and many groups will probably pile up waiting and fight forever to get it, or we just don't get to kill it ever.

I'm sure they've discussed a lot of this but I just joined the forum to ask about this stuff, and preliminary search didn't show a whole lot other than people saying, you're gonna get attacked, call your guild to start a big battle if you don't like it.

mcstackerson

I find these questions kind of tricky to answer because the answer is yes but on the other side, the game isn't going to be forcing to only go to one dungeon.

Yes, there will be high-value areas that people will want to farm and if you can't negotiate with them, you are either going to want to get some people together or find somewhere else to go.

This will probably be a major incentive for some people to spread out into the world as living by the best stuff will also mean you will probably have to constantly fight for it. For people who don't want to fight, it will be easier for them to find a less competitive node to play around.

Jakeman

make alliances then war deck their guild and wipe them

Grails

mcstackerson wrote: »

I find these questions kind of tricky to answer because the answer is yes but on the other side, the game isn't going to be forcing to only go to one dungeon.

Yes, there will be high-value areas that people will want to farm and if you can't negotiate with them, you are either going to want to get some people together or find somewhere else to go.

This will probably be a major incentive for some people to spread out into the world as living by the best stuff will also mean you will probably have to constantly fight for it. For people who don't want to fight, it will be easier for them to find a less competitive node to play around.

That makes sense, move to less populated areas for your main base of operations. Do you know how the bosses will work?

Is the 80 percent open/ 20 percent instanced like, 8 in 10 dungeons are totally open and 2 are an instance, or is it 80 percent of the dungeon is open and the last 20 percent is an instance so you can duel the final boss with your group?

CaptnChuck

Grails wrote: »

mcstackerson wrote: »

I find these questions kind of tricky to answer because the answer is yes but on the other side, the game isn't going to be forcing to only go to one dungeon.

Yes, there will be high-value areas that people will want to farm and if you can't negotiate with them, you are either going to want to get some people together or find somewhere else to go.

This will probably be a major incentive for some people to spread out into the world as living by the best stuff will also mean you will probably have to constantly fight for it. For people who don't want to fight, it will be easier for them to find a less competitive node to play around.

That makes sense, move to less populated areas for your main base of operations. Do you know how the bosses will work?

Is the 80 percent open/ 20 percent instanced like, 8 in 10 dungeons are totally open and 2 are an instance, or is it 80 percent of the dungeon is open and the last 20 percent is an instance so you can duel the final boss with your group?

No. 80% of the total dungeons that exist in the game are open world, while the remaining 20% are instanced. These instanced dungeons are mainly story dungeons.

BlackBrony

You have to consider that server can hold up to 10k players.
I believe there are 4/5 divine gates, which would spread the population on server creation.
Then you have different nodes, therefore there's going to be lots of dungeons.

And since even low level dungeons matter because of the mats required to repair gear, I think it's not going to be 500 people fighting for one dungeon.
On the other hand if you have no other back up than 10 people, some things will be harder to get if there's fighting for such resources.

darthaden

I've played other games with systems similar to this like Black Desert. Will you get ganked? Yes, but it won't be nearly as often as you might think as long as your willing to setting for the second or third best grind spot. The best of the best spots will always be highly contested but in games like this there's generally 3-4 other rotations within the same grind spot with just slightly less loot/xp. If the top spot pays out say 2,000 gold a hour the second best spot might be like 1,800, the third 1,700 and the fourth like 1,650 a hour.

xXBelocXx

Welcome to pre-instanced MMOs.. ie: EQ, DAoC, etc

AoC is being created to truly foster a play style that has been lost. Will it be a mindshift for many people, very much so. But the rewards are ones that last a lifetime. Now with that being said, I do think they need to be mindful of the "grievers". They are already thinking about this with Guild alliances for example. @Grails I would look into maybe forming an alliance with another larger guild that matches your play style to give you guys a better experience in the game.

Grails

@xXBelocXx yeah, I guess I'm not thinking of dungeons the same way as they are. I wouldn't have thought of a dungeon as a farming spot, in wow it's typically just an obstacle to the boss for the good stuff. Been reading more posts to glean what the philosophy is for a "dungeon"

darthaden

The instanced dungeons will be more of the story driven battle your way to the end wow style dungeons.

xXBelocXx

@Grails Open-world dungeons bring some truly unique experiences. But as you said, what is a "dungeon"? Are these "dungeons" like Lower Guk in EQ where it really wasn't a dungeon like we think of dungeons today, aka a "zone" with linear bosses and a definitive beginning and end, but more of a "zone" with no real direction or specific order of completion but a place with areas that have rare spawns with specific loot. We dont quite know yet. We have a few quotes from Jeff and Steven such as

"There are going to be smaller, simpler, linear dungeons. There's going to be bigger, more complex, nonlinear dungeons. So, It's a little bit of both. We want the environment to be a character. In order for the environment to be a character, these places need to be interesting and there needs to be a dynamicism to them.[5] – Jeffrey Bard"

This tells me we will have zone like Lower Guk in EQ as well as the instanced dungeons like we think of today. The struggle, as Jeff went it would be:

Half the problem won't just be solving the dungeon, it will be solving other players too.[7] – Jeffrey Bard

This is where Guild Alliances and friendships will come in.

Jexz

Have they said anything about boss spawn timers will they be static or random? That will also play a major factor in grind spots

Beeper

Jexz wrote: »

Have they said anything about boss spawn timers will they be static or random? That will also play a major factor in grind spots

Probably more impactful, making grind spots dynamic, will be the node system.

As different nodes rise and fall, different dungeons and grind spots will unlock. So this will be a much more dynamic system than EQ was, where it’s common knowledge where the best spots are.

SickBubblegum

@Grallus A tag system could be implemented where the person who tagged the mob first gets the rewards. Now this can present many problems in terms of griefing, however if it was a Lvl 10 character hitting a Lvl 10 mob and a lvl 30 comes along and starts to attack it for the 'dps race', maybe it would take priority on the person who is closest to the mob level to take priority. This could be done by either reduced DPS required to 'win' the loot.

But this is quite problematic on its self. Either way I believe if there was a guild camping a particular dungeon you wanted to enter you might just have to go gather instead

On a serious note another alternative would be to reduce drop rates for higher level players in lower level zones like in other games.

Jexz

I can see myself hating end game but the adventure there is going to be fun. EQ was so long ago for me and my first MMO this game is definitely bringing back memories long lost. I will probably foolishly rush to 50. But I hope not all end game stuff will be found in end game raids. like the Pegasus cloak or J man boots.