Potential abuse of the corruption system

I'm kind of concerned about the ways the corruption system could be potentially abused.

The corruption system reminds me of another MMO where you could enable attacking other players, after killing these players the player will eventually reach a threshold where he gets corrupted and can be attacked (so called aggrofarmers). There are like 6 stages of corruption, while in the last stage,the chance of losing inventory items is the highest. Not to forget to mention that these accounts/characters are also in strong guilds which backed them up.

Well, in this game, people would build extra characters/accounts where they gear them with full PVP stuff and only log on these chars when they had to defend a contested level/farming place.

Now in AoC this problem is trying to be solved by bounty hunters.
Let's say the bounty hunter reaches the contested spot, he may be too weak to take the corrupted player down. Then it would need a good bounty hunter equipment or more than one bounty hounter to take him down. And even if, the corrupted player could potentially just log off and wait until his threat is over. The contested farming/level place should also be reachable in a short period of time for bounty hunters.

Well this problem might be easy to handle for guilds and connected players, but for me as a Solo or "playing with bunch of friends here and there"- player this experience was really frustrating.

Any ideas or former experiences you had yourself in other MMO's?
How could this specific problem be approached more specific?

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I think this corruption system for this whole concept of the game is essential for the overall player experience, but it should be made as balanced as possible and casual players shouldn't get bullied out of the game through holes in balancing.

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Krojak

From what I can recall, corruption in this game will effect the stats/damage output of those who are corrupted in a negative way that scales with their corruption.

How strong is this effect? We don't know, but luckily there will be ample time to test this over the development cycle of this game.

Batzone96

krojak wrote: »

From what I can recall, corruption in this game will effect the stats/damage output of those who are corrupted in a negative way that scales with their corruption.

How strong is this effect? We don't know, but luckily there will be ample time to test this over the development cycle of this game.

Found the source, thanks for addressing.

~ 5:15
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ZnoHtzaQeMs&feature=youtu.be&t=5m05s

ownerofglory

the reduction of stats when a player is corrupted is a great idea from the devs but if they want i think it would be nice if the bounty hunters did more dmg the higher the corruption of the aggressor and only the bounty hunters had that, now about the pking and logging off right after it can be solved with a timer after killing someone depending on your corruption, ex tier 2 you can only log off 5 min after killing, tier 6 needs to wait 20 min to log off.

NelsonRebel

Logging off can be forced with a simple closing of the window.

I am also interested to know the specifics of corruption and pk'ing in a full open world spectrum.

Will there be areas of the game you cannot kill others? Are you killing people regardless of their status?

Do you drop your equipped gear/gold/mats?

Its very iffy for me but I like the idea in general as its something thats unique in the setting and idea of this game.

Noaani

nelsonrebel wrote: »

Logging off can be forced with a simple closing of the window.

This doesn't log you off.

Some games will log your character out of the game as soon as they realize the connection is cut, but some games will leave you in for seconds, or even minutes. If you close the window in one of these games (or go linkdead in any way), your character is still in game, on the server, susceptible to what ever happens.

Yuyukoyay

I think if you don't use the exit feature in the actual game then it shouldn't log you out at all. Should just let you sit there afk until you log back in and exit the right way. This may not be realistic to server load though. So maybe like a 30 minute auto log off.

I just want there to be a punishment for pulling the cord that is severe enough so people won't do it.

Jubilum

in the game I've been playing for the last 12 years combat logging used to be a huge issue They made a change several years ago, by putting in an aggression mode that was active for 5 minutes after firing your weapon a another player or being fired at by another player. Although you could log off during the period you character would not disappear and could still be interacted with, until the timer ran out then would disappear as usual. In other words your opponent could still destroy you even if you logged off. This should be a thing in AoC.

edit: Don't quote me on the 5 minute thing it may be less. There is a little count down clock in the upper left corner of your screen. All I know is it seems like forever when you are waiting for that little clock to run out.

Yuyukoyay

Similar idea in general. The actual statistics don't matter as long as they do that. It has to be long enough to be a huge detriment for an MMO though.

FuryBladeborne

In one of the recent interview videos, Steven did mention that mules would remain in the world for 5 minutes after log off. He switched topics quickly, but it sounds like you will be unable to protect the goods carried on mules by logging off if you see a potential attacker. I would imagine that such a system will be extended to logging off on corrupted players.

novercalis

Batzone96 wrote: »

Well this problem might be easy to handle for guilds and connected players, but for me as a Solo or "playing with bunch of friends here and there"- player this experience was really frustrating.

Any ideas or former experiences you had yourself in other MMO's?
How could this specific problem be approached more specific?

Edit: Don't get me wrong, I think this corruption system for this whole concept of the game is essential for the overall player experience, but it should be made as balanced as possible and casual players shouldn't get bullied out of the game through holes in balancing.

My intention isnt to be rude/disrespect with what I am about to say....

the game is a MMO and isn't catered to solo players - so in that instance - tough luck. Either hire mercenaries - inform your Zone of a red player - you're gonna have to be social in this game to get stuff done.
I am a red player and I do intent to be a perma red player in this game - I am a griefer as well. I wont be attacking newbies and lowbies but certain lowbies may get these hands from time to time tho if i am bored enough. If my threshold is 5 or more levels below me - I will target those are on 4 levels below me. If I sniff you're even a solo player - I am gonna camp you. I like being a villain and being chased. I came from UO with full loot and perma red enviroment. it's a rush for me. In-game I am not looking to be a full asshole but there will be times it will come across like that - so be it. I will be having a perma red guild - I cant control what others will do and how bad they wanna grief but we intent to make some noise.
Perhaps we want bounty hunters - only way to get their attention is by killing every single player in sight - regardless of level and camp them until the cavalry arrive.

With that said - on another thread - I have mentioned suggestion to keep us in check as well. I agree I shouldnt be killing lvl 1-20 players as a lvl 50. (nor am I saying lvl 20-40 is ok either, but I wont feel AS bad compared to the 1-20 persay. 40+ you're fair game in my eye - call your friends - assuming it's like classic wow a few low 50s can still kill a lvl 60 player.).

Warth

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

In one of the recent interview videos, Steven did mention that mules would remain in the world for 5 minutes after log off. He switched topics quickly, but it sounds like you will be unable to protect the goods carried on mules by logging off if you see a potential attacker. I would imagine that such a system will be extended to logging off on corrupted players.

Wasn't this in regards to Caravans? Might also be Mules, i'm not sure. A link would be appreciated though.

To OPs problem.
I believe multiple characters to become a significant Problem to the Corruption System within Ashes. The ability to place a secondary character at your favorite farming spot, utilizing him to kill competition, after-which you quickly log onto your "main" to farm should not be abuseable.

For this matter, I'd propose, that Corruption is awarded to all characters that currently exist on a players account. Getting rid of this corruption, would also require the player to get rid of this corruption on the Character that accrued it. For example

If an account had 3 characters
C1
C2
C3

All the characters would get 10 corruption upon the kill of a player through Character A.
This 10 corruption would persist on all characters until Character A has gotten rid of it.
Dying or grinding with Character B and C would not reduce the corruption.
Dying or grinding with Character A would.

Zhab

@Warth what about alternate accounts ?

Steven wrote:

When you gain that corruption you have the potential of losing your completed items, your weapon, your armor, stuff that is very difficult to achieve; and then the other aspect of that is, that in order to deter basically players taking alternate characters and saying this is my PK alt, the more players you kill, the more corruption you gain, the higher your combat efficacy in PVP diminishes. If you're out there and you killed you know 20 players... you will not be able to perform in PVP any longer. You will need to take that character and go work off that corruption. The other aspect of corruption is that if you kill another player, who is a non-combatant and the level disparity between you and that player is great, you will gain a higher amount of corruption from that single kill. To the point where you should not be killing a level one character.

I wonder if that means that going on a killing spree would increase the amount of corruption gain from each single kill. Corrupting a character to the point where you just don't have a choice to stop any PK activity and invest some serious time into "purifying" that character.

Side note: Apparently there is quest you can do to reduce corruption gains and military nodes apparently reduce the duration of corruption. Duration ? I did not know that it was a timed thing. Or did they mean less time consuming to work off ?

Warth

Zhab wrote: »

@Warth what about alternate accounts ?

Steven wrote:

When you gain that corruption you have the potential of losing your completed items, your weapon, your armor, stuff that is very difficult to achieve; and then the other aspect of that is, that in order to deter basically players taking alternate characters and saying this is my PK alt, the more players you kill, the more corruption you gain, the higher your combat efficacy in PVP diminishes. If you're out there and you killed you know 20 players... you will not be able to perform in PVP any longer. You will need to take that character and go work off that corruption. The other aspect of corruption is that if you kill another player, who is a non-combatant and the level disparity between you and that player is great, you will gain a higher amount of corruption from that single kill. To the point where you should not be killing a level one character.

I wonder if that means that going on a killing spray would increase the amount of corruption gain from each single kill. Corrupting a character to the point where you just don't have a choice to stop any PK activity and invest some serious time into "purifying" that character.

Side note: Apparently there is quest you can do to reduce corruption gains and military nodes apparently reduce the duration of corruption. Duration ? I did not know that it was a timed thing. Or did they mean less time consuming to work off ?

You have a your normal corruption score and an historic corruption/PK score. The bigger the second, the more corruption you get from your kills. So yes, the more you go on a killing spree, the higher the corruption you'll get per kill. At some point, you'll inevitably have to reduce the second score.

This quest you are talking about is exactly aimed towards reducing this historic corruption/PK score.

It has been called duration, but that's information that's about 2 or 3 years old. So I'd take it with a grain of salt, a lot could of changed since then. As of now, i'd assume that it refers to the amount of time it takes to get rid of the corruption though.

Also @Zhab you can't punish alternate accounts, otherwise you'd be also punishing people living in the same household. That was the argument for allowing the ownership of multiple accounts, no? This is no different in that case.

I personally believe that allowing multi-accounting should not be a thing and what you mentioned is just one the ramifications why i feel that way. That's not a problem with the corruption system though, it's a problem with the fact, that multiple accounts are allowed.

Zhab

Warth wrote: »

Also @Zhab you can't punish alternate accounts, otherwise you'd be also punishing people living in the same household. That was the argument for allowing the ownership of multiple accounts, no? This is no different in that case.

I personally believe that allowing multi-accounting should not be a thing and what you mentioned is just one the ramifications why i feel that way. That's not a problem with the corruption system though, it's a problem with the fact, that multiple accounts are allowed.

I know all that. I was mentioning alternate accounts to bring attention to the fact that punishing alternate characters is somewhat pointless so long as people can have multiple accounts. I guess side stepping corruption using an alt account is more expensive than using an alt character. So it would be pay to PK/grief ?

But if a character which only purpose is PK quickly becomes unusable for that purpose unless some serious time and effort is invested into maintenance then I guess that solve the issue doesn't it ?

Warth

Zhab wrote: »

Warth wrote: »

Also @Zhab you can't punish alternate accounts, otherwise you'd be also punishing people living in the same household. That was the argument for allowing the ownership of multiple accounts, no? This is no different in that case.

I personally believe that allowing multi-accounting should not be a thing and what you mentioned is just one the ramifications why i feel that way. That's not a problem with the corruption system though, it's a problem with the fact, that multiple accounts are allowed.

I know all that. I was mentioning alternate accounts to bring attention to the fact that punishing alternate characters is somewhat pointless so long as people can have multiple accounts. I guess side stepping corruption using an alt account is more expensive than using an alt character. So it would be pay to PK/grief ?

But if a character which only purpose is PK quickly becomes unusable for that purpose unless some serious time and effort is invested into maintenance then I guess that solve the issue doesn't it ?

@Zhab
Multiple characters -> anybody can do
Multiple Accounts -> only a few people will do

Multiple Characters -> you could have 8 characters, each with a separate corruption score you could abuse
Multiple Accounts -> you could have one separate corruption score per account, which you will have to get rid of at some point.

The stat dampening does improve the problem significantly. They'll quickly get weaker and weaker to the point where you have to get rid of the corruption. More corruption just means that this will take longer, so they will be "out of the griefing game" for a longer amount of time.

Zhab

Let's not forget the possibility of losing equipment. Also there must be a point where it is more efficient to just farm stuff quickly and efficiently instead of trying to PK the entire competition all the time.

Warth

Zhab wrote: »

Let's not forget the possibility of losing equipment. Also there must be a point where it is more efficient to just farm stuff quickly and efficiently instead of trying to PK the entire competition all the time.

@Zhab that's always the case. Corruption, if its anything like L2, will take hours to get rid of. Hours during which greens can freely attack you, without you having the ability to defend yourself. Hours during which Bountyhunter will come by periodically and Hours during which you'll probably have to keep running away from decent spawn points as green feel the need to use you as their punching bag / attack you for your gear.

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