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Anyone Else Trying To Think Of Ways To Break The Game Already?

KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
Imagine a 40 player raid. Well balanced with tanks/heals/support/and dps. All 40 players are sub class cleric. I haven't had the opportunity to play the game yet but come on! How are we supposed to die in this scenario!? Even small heal additions to a rogues spells would be pretty overpowered I think. I am super curious to see how the balancing goes during alpha one!

Roaming PvP with 10+ Bard/Clerics. Constant AOE heals going off haha. This will be fun : )
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Comments

  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    It wouldn't be wise to stack the same classes in group PvP. Hard Counters would have a field day.
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  • Yes but, that would be assuming that it will be balanced having everyone with sub class cleric... I'm pretty sure there's going to be a lack of dps in that scenario. Sure you might survive longer and it's overall better, but if there's a time based clear where you get rewards the faster you do it, that's going to seriously hurt you.
  • ShaladoorShaladoor Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I imagine that the amount of heals that can be pumped out via having a secondary archetype of cleric will be limited. I don't see why they would allow something like that to be more powerful than having dedicated healers. There may very well be raid fights where having everyone with a subclass of cleric be beneficial (I'm thinking of widespread and constant aoe damage, where trickle healing could be maximized).

    On the other hand, there may be fights where you need to really push your damage in order to meet a hard dps check, otherwise it's a wipe. In that case, passive cleric healing is wasted and extra dps would be the only way to push forward.

    Now, if you meant having a 40-man PVP raid with everyone subclass cleric, that's something I'd like to see tested.

    But the numbers can always be tuned down, and it doesn't necessarily need to be a healing bonus. For example:
    1. Only certain abilities may provide personal healing, which may have significant cooldowns so you aren't constantly healing yourself.
    2. The healing could be random, or only occur in certain conditions (like when your attacks crit, or only occur when you are critically hit, or only when you fall below a certain %hp threshold).
    3. Healing could proc randomly on party members, making it unpredictable.
    4. Instead of healing, maybe it's a personal bubble that only lasts so long (so you can't top up your health in an extended fight, only prevent small patches of damage).
    5. Maybe instead of healing you, maybe there are chances to remove debuffs instead?

    Just trying to throw out ideas. I personally do plan on having a sub class of cleric while leveling up. But I'll probably spend all of my gold trying out all 8 subclasses, just for funsies.

  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2020
    We will be able to focus our skill points in a few skills.
    Just put them all in 3 buff skills and start spamming them with 8 bards non stop. Every bard has a different augmentation for a diverse range of buffs.
    Lets see someone fight us with 15%-30% crit, damage, attackspeed, movementspeed, evasion, healing, damage reduction and range!
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  • In large battles like node sieges you will probably see organized bomb groups.
    Example group1: 2 Tanks, 4 AOE dps, 2 Clerics.
    Example group2: 2 Tanks, 2 AOE dps, 2 bards to buff group, 2 Clerics.

    The purpose of this group setup would be to ball up and create an orb of death. Always sticking together and dropping all of your AOE damage at the same time. Unorganized players would stand no chance due to the insane amount of damage being dropped in the same area at the same time.
  • What about an entire raid of Tanks with a damage focused Archetype and the minimal amount of healers to keep them up.
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    U.S. East
  • Like this in WoW?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z84ykkg_sSA

    All fire mages and a couple of tanks. Melted raid bosses in seconds.
  • darthadendarthaden Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    This is where the 2+ years of alpha/beta tests come in. If the cleric subclass healing is found to be op during testing it'll be nerfed long before launch
  • Can't wait to see 40 man cleric group roaming the map xD
  • you could just have a bunch of clerics with the ability to counter death...
  • nidriksnidriks Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter
    Funny, but I'm thinking of playing it...

    ...like every damn second. :*
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I like all the ideas haha. @Yuyukoyay That would be insane!

    @Neurath Well yeah they would have a field day but coming across a full group of one class for the first time during an alpha test would be crazy enough to force balancing I think. (assuming it is even good in the first place).

    @Jakee I planned on some sort of bomb group being a thing in the large battles. I was also thinking about a flank group of cleric/bard/rogue/ranger (rangers in abundance). Rogues only to protect clerics and rangers to melt while focus firing.
  • screwtape wrote: »
    Like this in WoW?
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z84ykkg_sSA

    All fire mages and a couple of tanks. Melted raid bosses in seconds.

    Ok, that's just crazy broken. Trivializing content like that makes me lose interest because there is literally no challenge anymore.

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  • Cold 0ne FTBCold 0ne FTB Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Yea, we don't know nearly enough to be at this stage.
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    That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
  • Yea, we don't know nearly enough to be at this stage.

    The winner of the thread, ladies and gentlemen.
  • ALWAYS! I've come up with a number of ideas from both sides of the argument to exploit the corruption system, and look forward to testing the theories.
  • AndiAndi Member
    imagine the cleric class not adding heals to everyone. summoner/cleric for example will be necromancer, and cleric is said to be "about life and death", which could really mean anything.

    just adding a heal to everything would be incredibly boring, doubt they'll handle it this way.
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    @Cold 0ne FTB I mean....that is entirely my point haha.

    @Flagg Absolutely. Testing these theories will be fun. We should hook up in Alpha to see if we can break anything in hopes to fix them before launch : ).

    @Andi Necromancer should be something along the lines of healing the team while doing damage. Kind of like a shadow priest in wow I would imagine. Don't know where I heard there or even if it is true but it makes sense.
  • AndiAndi Member
    my god, please no. i plan to play a necro, and the last thing i wanna do as a pet class is heal my fellow players' butts :cold_sweat:
  • DrekDrek Member
    To see to break the game i'd start with:

    PvP 250 vs 250
    All summoners (3 summons each) + 1 combat pet

    Turns into 1250 vs 1250 ... and see if that doesn't break the server.


    Now breaking the game balance wise is another ball game, 64 classes with each different armor and weapons setup.... a lot of possibilities.
  • darthadendarthaden Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I'll be looking for exploits during the alpha/beta whenever the family fast travel is introduced. I already have a few ideas on how it might be possible to exploit it. Using it to skip travel time after grinding to sell off everything in a far away node is my main concern
  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Not sure if break is the right word, but highly pleased in a recent other test of another game to find a way to generate legitimately 100x the income that was achievable through playing the way most other people were.

    Definitely will consider that for this game to get a head start when it comes out.. playing by the rules within the system, just playing the game!
  • Drek wrote: »
    To see to break the game i'd start with:

    PvP 250 vs 250
    All summoners (3 summons each) + 1 combat pet

    Turns into 1250 vs 1250 ... and see if that doesn't break the server.


    Now breaking the game balance wise is another ball game, 64 classes with each different armor and weapons setup.... a lot of possibilities.

    You forgot about the mounts!
  • Neurath wrote: »
    It wouldn't be wise to stack the same classes in group PvP. Hard Counters would have a field day.

    Isn't content balanced around primary archetypes though (8 archetypes per group, etc)? Secondary only slightly augments your abilities and I doubt they are going to try and balance around all 64 combinations. The only thing I could see would be hard DPS/gear checks, but without DPS meters if the devs were to make bosses revolve around DPS pushes people would be real upset.

    Besides, I'm sure for a lot of encounters some archetypes will just completely outmatch others. I bet there will be a bunch of class stacking, it just won't be common among casuals. Only no-life guilds where people have many maxed out alts it will happen.
  • FildydarieFildydarie Member
    edited August 2020
    With open world raiding, "add more people" is a viable strategy to overcome encounters. I expect that you would fare much better to take a well-balanced raid of 80 than to try to cheese with everyone off-classing cleric.

    At this point I think enough other MMOs have been broken that there are plenty of examples of things to avoid. EverQuest gave us kiting and shakerpage as very dramatic examples. Crowd control was also an unintended mechanic--root and mesmerize spells were meant for escape, not to park a mob so it could be debuffed and wait its turn to die (or, in the case of root, force aggro onto the closest target). I believe the idea that players would form raids was unintended (but I can't find anything to back that up, so I could be wrong). There was, after all, no formal raid group system in EQ until the Planes of Power expansion. Instancing and content scaling are fairly well established checks on adding numbers to solve problems, so "add more people" has an established counter as well.

    Given the very vocal opposition to multiboxing, I expect the family fast travel will not be a practical solution.

    I'm sure there will be at least one breakable thing that slips through the betas, but I feel as though there is nothing one player will be able to do that couldn't be done more efficiently by a large guild.
  • Here I was just thinking how I’m going to try to Blink out of the map as many times as possible during Alpha testing.

    But on topic, you wanna see something broken? 10+ player stack, all DoT classes. Tag some poor soul and watch him burn
  • This is literally just about how well they balance the game, so we can't really come to any conclusion at all yet.

    Here's my view on it though:

    Every single choice of class/subclass will (should) have pros and cons, so when you go cleric subclass, you get some pros (smaller heals etc), but you also lose out on everything else that players with other subclasses will have.

    Just as a very very simplistic example: Player "A" has cleric subclass and can heal small amounts when hitting enemy. Player "B" has some other subclass and deals increased damage. If the added damage that player B gets cancels out the healing player A gets, then there's no advantage for player A.

    It would probably also be really easy to counter since there would surely be many abilities that nobody has any counter to, because they all went cleric subclass.
  • Cold 0ne FTBCold 0ne FTB Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    KHRONUS wrote: »
    @Cold 0ne FTB I mean....that is entirely my point haha.

    @Flagg Absolutely. Testing these theories will be fun. We should hook up in Alpha to see if we can break anything in hopes to fix them before launch : ).

    @Andi Necromancer should be something along the lines of healing the team while doing damage. Kind of like a shadow priest in wow I would imagine. Don't know where I heard there or even if it is true but it makes sense.

    Exactly there is nothing you can theory craft. So why make up or presume things about the game. That's not theory crafting.

    ZxbhjES.gif

    That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
  • ServNiQ wrote: »
    Drek wrote: »
    To see to break the game i'd start with:

    PvP 250 vs 250
    All summoners (3 summons each) + 1 combat pet

    Turns into 1250 vs 1250 ... and see if that doesn't break the server.


    Now breaking the game balance wise is another ball game, 64 classes with each different armor and weapons setup.... a lot of possibilities.

    You forgot about the mounts!

    (and all the vanity pets!)
    isFikWd2_o.jpg
  • Exactly there is nothing you can theory craft. So why make up or presume things about the game. That's not theory crafting.

    Um.. Can you please define your logic? Theory crafting is by definition, theoretical, presumptuous and a speculation. It's not called fact-craft. Just so you understand the difference.
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