my feedback about taking feedback from wow players =)

Rrecently we got massive influx of new players from wow community... and they complain about ridiculous things

wow is b2p, monthly sub, expansion box price game with in game shop and option to buy gold directly from blizzard. You can literally buy wow tokens and get best gear from auction house. Such p2w game with predatory monetization and system designed to squish as much $ as possible from its players... yet same ppl complain about some non p2w monthly cosmetic

or there was 100+ upvotes thread on reddit where they complained about devs overusing super rare flying months during live streams, you know, 2 years before release, to save time and show more during stream time. Kinda ridiculous imo and i hope this game will be as far as possible from wow design philosophy

Devs! Be cautious with feedback from brain washed wow players! Anyway they played only one mmorpg in thier life or other games such as ff14, eso or g2w, which are bad copies of bad game (wow). Really happy that Steven is inspired by games like L2, hope it wont change

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Lostforever

Lets not blame WoW players here! They didn't knew about this game till Steven went to talked to one of the biggest WoW streamers

Rissy

Not all WoW players are bad or have bad ideas. People just need to be more open minded and that depends more on the person, and what they have been exposed to rather than the fact that they have played WoW. We need to be willing to hear all sides, take what we hear and break it down to understand where everyone is coming from, and then update our own opinions about things if they made a point that makes us question our previous stance. Everyone can have an opinion and offer constructive criticism, if they so choose. Gotta love that freedom of speech and thinking. The big thing is to remember to be constructive about it and offer some insight into why you feel the way you do about something.

Some people just don't have enough empathy to get past their own narrow views, but again, that is not because of the game they play. It is just inherent in their personal nature.

We are all gamers of different types and backgrounds here. We need to respect each other and work together to help the devs create a game that can hold true to its vision (because that is why most of us are here in the first place, right?) while becoming something that is welcoming to a good number of player types in order to make the world an active and living place.

Yuyukoyay

I played quite a few mmo's including WoW. I don't really have my alliance with any single MMO. The ideal system would to take what each MMO did right and cut out what every MMO did wrong.

I don't think WoW players are necessarily incapable of doing that, but it's very easy to tell when their biases are not aimed at the goal of making a game better.

I don't think casual vs hardcore is necessarily better than the other at determining what is better either. You could potentially get good ideas from players who don't even play MMO's. Their ideas might even be better than actual MMO players due to no preconceived bias.

It really depends on someone's end goal whether their ideas or good or not. Though some ideas can be bad at first and with a little more thinking can be a good idea.

Leroher

ulanygwynbleidd wrote: »

Devs! Be cautious with feedback from brain washed wow players! Anyway they played only one mmorpg in thier life or other games such as ff14, eso or g2w, which are bad copies of bad game (wow). Really happy that Steven is inspired by games like L2, hope it wont change

The moment you call people brain washed and say the rest of the MMOs are bad copies of WoW you lost your argument

Who are you to say that the only good MMO until now is L2 implying that the rest of the people got no taste?

Rexseven

Yuyukoyay wrote: »

The ideal system would to take what each MMO did right

Despite the OP's post being poorly constructed this is pretty much what needs to happen. If you think ignoring feedback from players of the biggest MMO is a good idea then we can all be thankful your input to the game is limited.

Nykz

Im following this game since 2017 and I come from WoW, so much to the

Lostforever wrote: »

Lets not blame WoW players here! They didn't knew about this game till Steven went to talked to one of the biggest WoW streamers

thing.

Theres a reason WoW is so popular and holding up for soo long, and it definitely has a lot of very addictive mechanics and designs which are worth taking a look at.

nidriks

I personally think all feedback is welcome, and let's not get into a habit of excluding people.

Yes, there will be ideas we early adopters don't like, but the forum gives us opportunity to voice our opinion too.

I am worried too. I don't want the identity that I saw in this game to change. Steven has a solid idea though, and he seems very resolute in his belief of no P2W.

I choose to have faith in Steven and Intrepid.

Also, let us aim to keep this a friendly community. Ashes will benefit from a strong community. Aim to change people's opinions on MMO gaming rather than tell them to 'sod off'.

Beeper

ulanygwynbleidd wrote: »

Be cautious with feedback from brain washed wow players!

Yikes. So, you're gonna be that guy, huh?

Don't be this guy. I've been lurking in this community for a long time, and only started actively posting within the last week to combat divisive and toxic behavior like this. Everyone should have a say and is entitled to their own opinion - even if you disagree with it. We all benefit from being welcoming, and willing to talk about a difference of opinion.

Valento92

While I don't see the need to speak like you did I do hope Steve preserve this game's core philosophies close to his heart. If things deviate even a little it will end up building the same MMORPG experience we've seen for years so yeah IS got to be very cautious so that AoC doesn't become another WoW clone.

NelsonRebel

Okay this thread really isnt that productive.

WoW players arent neccessarily brain washed, its probably just the easiest comparison they can use is to make points correlating to WoW because its been on a pedestal for so long

That being said of course the devs should look at all suggestions with a hefty dose of objectivity.

Everyone is here for a reason, its because all those MMO's are failing the playerbase. Paying attention to what drove players here is a good thing.

But yes there will be those oddball players just looking to turn any new mmo into their own better version of whatever game they left.

But really alot of those games you mentioned aren't BAD games, they just have made BAD choices because they didnt actually look and consider feedback. It does NOT mean they need to implement every ridiculous idea or
suggestion that alot of people may post, but the devs can certainly look at ideas or suggestions that CAN be benificial if its not some ridiculous idea that isnt feasible.

Warth

nykz wrote: »

Im following this game since 2017 and I come from WoW, so much to the

Lostforever wrote: »

Lets not blame WoW players here! They didn't knew about this game till Steven went to talked to one of the biggest WoW streamers

thing.

Theres a reason WoW is so popular and holding up for soo long, and it definitely has a lot of very addictive mechanics and designs which are worth taking a look at.

Yes:

Smoothness and responsiveness of combat.
Quality of animations within trailers.
Depth and width of lore.
Instanced PvE Content design.
Maybe the in-depth achievement system and the hunt for collectibles.

That's all the things i can think off right now.

No:

Class diversity and design, nah
Timelocks, gated content and daily quests, nah
login bonus and participation rewards, nah
PvP features, certainly not
interconnectedness of games systems, nah
stance on risk (none) vs. reward (plenty shiny stuff), nah
stance on player choice, no way
social aspects with the game (group finder, matchmaking system...), no

unknown

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unknown

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Sendbackup

ulanygwynbleidd wrote: »

Rrecently we got massive influx of new players from wow community... and they complain about ridiculous things wow is b2p, monthly sub, expansion box price game with in game shop and option to buy gold directly from blizzard. You can literally buy wow tokens and get best gear from auction house. Such p2w game with predatory monetization and system designed to squish as much $ as possible from its players... yet same ppl complain about some non p2w monthly cosmetic or there was 100+ upvotes thread on reddit where they complained about devs overusing super rare flying months during live streams, you know, 2 years before release, to save time and show more during stream time. Kinda ridiculous imo and i hope this game will be as far as possible from wow design philosophy

Devs! Be cautious with feedback from brain washed wow players! Anyway they played only one mmorpg in thier life or other games such as ff14, eso or g2w, which are bad copies of bad game (wow). Really happy that Steven is inspired by games like L2, hope it wont change

Its fine that L2 is a starting point of development ideas, however if the end goal of a MMO is to be successful, addictive and keep players returning for years to come....you HAVE to look closely at what WoW does well and incorporate some features to ensure that you have a sustained player base. It is only the most successful MMO in the history of MMO's. No offence to L2, but WoW has crushed L2 in all facets of the genre and is still going strong in player populations and twitch viewers. It would be a gross mistake to ignore WoW and have blinkers on to to what is POPULAR in the market.

Warth

Sendbackup wrote: »

ulanygwynbleidd wrote: »

Rrecently we got massive influx of new players from wow community... and they complain about ridiculous things wow is b2p, monthly sub, expansion box price game with in game shop and option to buy gold directly from blizzard. You can literally buy wow tokens and get best gear from auction house. Such p2w game with predatory monetization and system designed to squish as much $ as possible from its players... yet same ppl complain about some non p2w monthly cosmetic or there was 100+ upvotes thread on reddit where they complained about devs overusing super rare flying months during live streams, you know, 2 years before release, to save time and show more during stream time. Kinda ridiculous imo and i hope this game will be as far as possible from wow design philosophy

Devs! Be cautious with feedback from brain washed wow players! Anyway they played only one mmorpg in thier life or other games such as ff14, eso or g2w, which are bad copies of bad game (wow). Really happy that Steven is inspired by games like L2, hope it wont change

Its fine that L2 is a starting point of development ideas, however if the end goal of a MMO is to be successful, addictive and keep players returning for years to come....you HAVE to look closely at what WoW does well and incorporate some features to ensure that you have a sustained player base. It is only the most successful MMO in the history of MMO's. No offence to L2, but WoW has crushed L2 in all facets of the genre and is still going strong in player populations and twitch viewers. It would be a gross mistake to ignore WoW and have blinkers on to to what is POPULAR in the market.

extremists views are never very productive.
That doesn't mean you have to look at what made WoW successful, because a lot of the aspects that were related to that simply wouldn't work in a game like AoC. Fact of the matter is, that a lot of L2 systems lend themselves much more towards the framework that AoC sets. Let's also not forget, that L2 is still going strong with an average of 30 Million USD revenue over the past 6 years. Despite being one of the niche MMORPGs, that do not cater to the masses at all. A game like AoC, that reduces the extremities and instead focuses on the features that made other games attractive to play, certaintly has potential to succeed on a large scale.

Nonetheless, There certainly are aspects, that AoC could adapt from WoW. Especially aspects that are important to retaining the crowd that is more casual. I mainly identify those as the following:

Smoothness and responsiveness of combat.
Quality of animations within trailers and cutscenes.
Depth and width of lore.
The design of instances PvE Content (the variance, a lot of the mechanics etc.)
Maybe the in-depth achievement system and the hunt for collectibles.

That's also where i personally think that it stops, there might be some i have forgotten (feel free to add some you feel like would fit into AoC).

Hansrutger

How does a troll post get so many likes? Holy crap this forum is turning out to be exactly like wow forums.

Sendbackup

Warth wrote: »

Sendbackup wrote: »

ulanygwynbleidd wrote: »

Rrecently we got massive influx of new players from wow community... and they complain about ridiculous things wow is b2p, monthly sub, expansion box price game with in game shop and option to buy gold directly from blizzard. You can literally buy wow tokens and get best gear from auction house. Such p2w game with predatory monetization and system designed to squish as much $ as possible from its players... yet same ppl complain about some non p2w monthly cosmetic or there was 100+ upvotes thread on reddit where they complained about devs overusing super rare flying months during live streams, you know, 2 years before release, to save time and show more during stream time. Kinda ridiculous imo and i hope this game will be as far as possible from wow design philosophy

Devs! Be cautious with feedback from brain washed wow players! Anyway they played only one mmorpg in thier life or other games such as ff14, eso or g2w, which are bad copies of bad game (wow). Really happy that Steven is inspired by games like L2, hope it wont change

Its fine that L2 is a starting point of development ideas, however if the end goal of a MMO is to be successful, addictive and keep players returning for years to come....you HAVE to look closely at what WoW does well and incorporate some features to ensure that you have a sustained player base. It is only the most successful MMO in the history of MMO's. No offence to L2, but WoW has crushed L2 in all facets of the genre and is still going strong in player populations and twitch viewers. It would be a gross mistake to ignore WoW and have blinkers on to to what is POPULAR in the market.

extremists views are never very productive.
That doesn't mean you have to look at what made WoW successful, because a lot of the aspects that were related to that simply wouldn't work in a game like AoC. Fact of the matter is, that a lot of L2 systems lend themselves much more towards the framework that AoC sets. Let's also not forget, that L2 is still going strong with an average of 30 Million USD revenue over the past 6 years. Despite being one of the niche MMORPGs, that do not cater to the masses at all. A game like AoC, that reduces the extremities and instead focuses on the features that made other games attractive to play, certaintly has potential to succeed on a large scale.

Nonetheless, There certainly are aspects, that AoC could adapt from WoW. Especially aspects that are important to retaining the crowd that is more casual. I mainly identify those as the following:
Smoothness and responsiveness of combat.

Quality of animations within trailers and cutscenes.

Depth and width of lore.

The design of instances PvE Content (the variance, a lot of the mechanics etc.)

Maybe the in-depth achievement system and the hunt for collectibles.

That's also where i personally think that it stops, there might be some i have forgotten (feel free to add some you feel like would fit into AoC).

Im kinda confused that in one breath you're saying you dont have to look at what made WoW successful because they wouldn't work in AOC, but you then say there are certainly aspects that AOC could adapt from WoW. ?!?!

Those very things you list are pretty much what Asmongold stated that AOC needs to learn from WoW to make it a great game.

My point is that whether or not people think Linage 2 is a good game because it is still making money is not a long term feasible business model. Look at SWTOR for example. Its still making money but its a dead game where they killed the Oceania servers in the early stages and forced an entire region to have 100+ ping and as it continued to shut down all west coast servers a large percentage left as 200+ ping is unplayable. Now they spent in excess of 280+million on creating that game and grossly underestimated the clear rate of content and left people with nothing to do for 6 months. Something they could have preempted if they had looked at WoW and assessed what was keeping it so alive.

Dont get me wrong, I am not a WoW fanboi by any means. I just want this game to at least live up to some of the hype without it just being a linage 3 or a WoW copy.

Srdjan91

Hansrutger wrote: »

How does a troll post get so many likes? Holy crap this forum is turning out to be exactly like wow forums.

He is aoc andy.

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