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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Ashes already caters to solo players. As it does to several other playstyles.
In this case, you're just ranting about something that has nothing to do with anything Ravel said.
Ravel has actually said very little this whole thread. He has only stated that he disagrees with me, and a few others.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
You are ignoring that (and the OP) and ranting about something else.
Therein lies the disconnect.
Let me see...
That is his full contribution to this thread.
Not seeing him talk about "solo play leading to group play.".
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
You want to play ranger too!? Did we just become best friends?!?!?
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Developers shouldn't provide a means for players to automatically get groups for content. This is absolutely true and blatantly obvious to most of us.
They could, however, provide an easier means for players to find groups, to find guilds or to find a new node to gain citizenship of, should players need it.
Keep in mind, Ashes is not likely to have worldwide chat. If you are not in a guild for what ever reason, there is likely to not be a single viable chat channel that you can expect to find enough people willing to form a group for a specific piece of content.
Some sort of assistance in this area (and I am purposefully not making any suggestions as to what form that could take) would be useful to people that fit in to several of the categories from the OP.
However, Ashes is a game that is all about players trusting each other (I could just boot you from my group and kill you at any time). Many of the player types in the OP simply won't survive in this game, and not all of them need to be catered to.
Thanks for actually explaining your position instead of playing games.
Yes, the big worry for me is that the systems that developers would implement would be too heavy-handed and change the game.
Which is why I feel so strongly that they should do nothing and let people grow as individuals enough to speak up for themselves when needed.
Otherwise, we end up with lobby MMOs like WOW and FFXIV.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
However, I do see potential value in having a system to easily look up guilds that are recruiting. Being able to see what the guild has actually done (items crafted, bosses killed, caravans attacked, caravans run, how many participated in various sieges etc) so players can find a guild that suits them more easily.
I can also see value in some sort of similar system for nodes. Which nodes have what infrastructure, which nodes are actively looking for more citizens, and what housing they have available etc.
Rather than a means to join things faster (as in WoW and FFXIV), I can see value in developers creating a system where all relevant information is put together allowing players to more easily make their own decisions.
Without an in-game system, I look this stuff up on my own before joining a guild. I don't see a proble with giving players more information like this, though. I thought Margaret already hinted at stuff like this for the website.
Yeah, WOW armory and FFXIV lodestone... Aion had this stuff too, back in like 2012. From what I remember, Intrepid already plans this stuff.
I don't consider looking up guild information to be DEV hand holding. It's just normal modern MMORPG stuff.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
Most games do it "wrong", however. They let guilds define what kind of guild they are, and to list as looking for new members when they are not (in some games, even when they are at their member cap). This leads to trolling of various types and makes the whole system essentially useless in terms of it's intended function (assisting players in connecting with a potential new guild).
Switch it up so that the system only lists what the guild has done, and you make it much more useful - it could potentially actually serve it's intended purpose.
As for node information, I have no doubt it will be available out of game, but it should also be available in game. It shouldn't be all that hard to do, if the information is already being collected.
This isn't exactly ground breaking or new stuff, but it is the kind of stuff that some of the types of players in the OP do need.
I like this.
I know in WOW in the past, I have had to look up the guild leader's achievements to verify that the guild is as good as they claim to be.
Or you have to inspect member's gear to see that they can do the things they claim they can do.
Every guild ever will list things like "High-End Raids", "AOTC", "PvP"...
Not every guild ever is actually doing those things.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
It would be an interesting discussion. I found the video (in the original post) had some valid points that go against the angst that surrounds solo content and solo player content in mmo's. There is not much I can add to what is being said in the video.
The best thing I can say is I hope there will be a healthy mix of solo and group content, and that I as a player will be eased into the group content in natural way that does not feel forced. And that group content will depend more on player interaction then on game mechanics.
With the latter I mean that I hope that there will not be dungeon finders and comparable mechanisms in the game that take away the social aspects of players interaction.
But hey, it is not my game, I am only a player and have no say in how Intrepid envisions it, I can only hope I will like it. So far, I see no reason to loose hope.
While quests should definitely have a decent amount of content that can be completed solo I absolutely hope they stick with the idea that on level you will need to be grouped to complete certain content, including quests.
As an above poster has said I don’t think asking the bare minimum of typing in region/node chat “lfg X” or looking at a bulletin board is out of line in an mmo.
I like to read quests before accepting them. I like to follow the stories withing quest lines. Understand the virtual world of the game from its NPCs and factions, how everything fit together, as if it was a book or D&D campaign.
I like to investigate areas and locations. I can spend 30 minutes or more trying to access some venture point or follow what appears to be a trail of clues to, essentially, nowhere. I like to explore.
Most people don't care about these things. They want XPs. They want better gear. They want rewards. That's what drive them, and I don't really care about those things.
And then there is guild drama, game of influence and power play which are enough to turn me away from most permanent large associations.
I can tolerate grouping with others, but when I do so I'm making compromises, even if they're not voiced or apparent. All and all, I prefer the compromises associated to my solo play.
But the real problem is I play alone because I always look for an 18+ playing buddy and nobody seem interested to play with me. Whatever the game I want to. Not that I didn’t tried. Or it’s finally do not work well. I get tired to play alone and stop playing after days or weeks. It’s hard to find someone that want to take his time to level and discover the game together. I don’t know if playing at late evening, like 9-10PM EST is a reason through. I can adapt myself and play a bit earlier through, but I prefer later because I’m enjoying the day and early evening.
It also really makes me appreciate the current planned social structures we have for Ashes. We have the strong ties in the family and guild. Then we have the weaker social ties in the alliance, node citizenship, religions and social organizations. All with their own specific chats as well presumably.
Chances are even the most hardcore loner is part of at least one of these weaker social structures. They don't pressure people to be social, but they give them the option. They also provide people with a sense of belonging, even if they are mainly "lurkers". They provide players who lost their guild a way to find a new one with a shared purpose, like a guild mainly based in the same node for example. And that guild might be more friendly and welcoming to players they already know from that node.
When I go through the list 1-10 in the OP, the weak tie social structures positively affect all the 10 points really. Some of them are super obvious, but others maybe less so, like number 3. the sociopath. It gives new players a space without a lot of social pressure to learn the do's and don'ts of the node and server before trying to form stronger ties. It might actually stop some of the random PKing because people tend to be more empathetic towards people in their same group, like people from the same node they recognize from node chat. And even if it isn't out of empathy, knowing they will be named and shamed in the group they belong might deter some.
Looking at my experience in the current alpha, I see a game that caters to both, but also one that is trying to get people to group up. We had a good mix of solo, party and raid quests and content. We had a long quest chain that could be soloed most of the way, and gave some decent gear along the way. The end reward was a full set of epic amor, but that required a group to kill a mini-boss. Solo players could craft their own epics as well, but to get the legendaries people needed specific raid drops (dragon scales).
Personally I like a good mix of solo and group/raid content. Sometimes I just want to quest at my own pace, pick flowers and enjoy the sights without having someone else waiting for me. I can hang out on voice chat too while doing so even, but I need that "alone time" in game to do my own thing, and it has to be meaningful in a way.
I would argue that "lobby" type mmos are the most solo type of mmo. You sit in town and join a group without having to do anything. You complete the dungeon/raid without having to communicate. You play your role in the fights and it ends with everyone getting loot. Complete trash games. Might as well call it World of Warcraft.io.
@Ravel You just bring so much to the table in your comments. Your arguments are fire and you speak in a way that drives positive change within the community. /sarcasm.
I understand your perspective here but I partially disagree. I too played wow and was able to get my guild through heroics and at one point some very impressive (but who gives a shit now) achievements. As much as I would love a system to help group people together, it simply shouldn't be in AoC. Anything that forces a player to communicate will be what AoC needs. Even if that means zero group finder. Long dead is the social interaction of MMO's and I am looking forward to helping build a server from day 1 (not talking about the node system).
I think forcing players to get out of their shell if they want to group up is a good thing. If a system HAS to be placed into the game, it can revolve around the citizen system so that you are able to post your LFG to those who are citizens of your local node. Another perk and reason to become a citizen which helps create a stronger social aspect. The sky is the limit for Intrepid. Just need them to see all angles when implementing these things.
Will world chat cause people to scream and shout that 150 players are traveling towards "X" area? Absolutely. This is a good tool to identify who the clowns are that should be killed on sight or which guilds to burn to the ground repeatedly.
When you put it that way, I can only agree with you. I did not know lobby games where that bad.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/In_game_chat
You can't count on others being there for the group content
You didn't get my point it seems. I'm not asking for a lobby or any of that shit. Just the ability to post your LFR on a billboard and others can come and find it to then contact you and shit. Spamming LF raid members is certainly no better
The problem with this is that you can't.
You can only do what you want, when you want, if what you want is able to be done solo.
I join raid guilds in order to be able to do what I want, because what I want to do is kill raid mobs.
If I join a raid guild, I can 100% count on my guild being there at the appropriate time. In nearly 20 years, I have never seen nor had to myself cancel a single raid night due to people not showing up (though we do schedule weeks off around specific holidays).
Your argument here only really applies to why you wouldn't opt to play a game with a lose collaboration of people.
Pair this comment with "I find that I only ever want to kill solo content", and you have a good reason.
Rather than being able to post looking for others for raids, you should instead get to know people, hundreds of people, and then approach them and see if they want to raid.
WoW is the exception to this, but a raid should be made up of people that all play together regularly, not just a rag-tag assemblage (or, in Ashes case, a passel) of other players that happen to be board at the time.
Oh, I'm so glad to hear that. Thank you.