PvPers Unite AOC

Kneczhevo

As a PvPer I feel I need to explain to the AoC (MMORPG) community what we want.

Ever since my first First Person Shooter, I was hooked. Never again will I have to kill some robotic AI. My opponents (players) dodge and weave, not just stand there and take the punishment they so deserve.

It's an exciting feeling, when I cap a head shot, or kill 20 with that nade. All I have to do is que for a battle (arena) and I can start laying waste to all those noobs who don't know how to juke and leap while I cap them in the face. I love when they complain I am using hacks; L2P newb! It's great seeing my kill/death/ratio top of the charts, if not close.

Now for the issues I have with AoC (MMORPGs).

Firstly, I am being told there is a whole world out there to PvP in. Honestly, I don't care. I just want to que for a Battle Ground (arena) and start curb stomping. I don't need to see the world, I kill at will. There is no reason why I am being required to go out and pick flowers. Not my cup of tea. Don't force me to play that style, I am a killer. Why should I have to ask for a group, when I can headshot from 1k. Oh, wait. I can't headshot, it takes 20+ seconds to whittle that guy down, wtf!?! Pew pews shouldn't take that long in a firefight or melee. But, wait that guy just used some ability I never seen before, because I don't play carebear classes, and he drops me. Wtf!? And when I complain, and everyone tells me; L2P noob! Wtf!?. I know how to play my class. "Well, you need to go out and get some raid gear". Wtf!? I don't raid. I like my arena battles and your telling me to go out and pick flowers? Wtf!? "No, you need to raid with others and get better gear." Wtf!? You know how long it takes to get into a raid? I don't have that much time. Just que me up with some pug and let me loose. "That's not how it works" wtf!? ( This reminds me of Summits YT, where he gets into argument with friend. Look it up.) Don't tell me how it works and how I should play. I shouldn't have to wait days to get into a raid and have a slim "chance" at getting just one piece. Wtf!? Just que me and let me loose! Oh wait. I can't raid, because there is this dumb quest I have to do first. Wtf!? I don't quest, I do arena's. I have a k/d/r that's off the charts, and now your having me pick flowers and find people to help me kill this rat? Wtf!? I should just be able to que for a group, because you know how long finding a group in chat takes? (Poor game play mechanic, imo) This is why I don't quest. That's just counter intuitive to my play style. Just let me loose!

Don't get me started on balance. When I attack someone, I should kill them. Not take 20+ seconds. And wtf with rock paper scissors. A sword is a sword. I should lop off your head when I hit you. I shouldn't have to figure out my opponent is wearing plate, and swords don't effect them. Wtf!? Or how some abilities counter others, wtf!? I swing at you, you should be dead, I don't have time to see you have your shield stance up, I'm to busy looking at my DPS meter. Wtf!?

I have grown up from carebear to headshot king in Arena's. I am a PvPer and proud of it.

But, AoC is a MMORPG, not an FPS. There is a world to explore. Battle Grounds (arenas) are a feature in a dynamic PvP world (Tho, I will concede, most MMORPGs have never been able to polish the PvP enviornment (faction PvP), but I hope AoC will.) I've been waiting two decades for someone to get it right.). There are caravans to grief. Siege's to declare, for firework shows, guilds to gank in wars, possibly families to feud with. But, I don't need those. Just give me my BG and my PvP k/d/r, so I can wave my epeen at others, because I am on top of the charts. To hell with the world, I only need to know my tiny bit I grew up in (arenas). I shouldn't be required leave my BG just to gear up, it's ruining my play experience to go to the AH or pick flowers, in hopes to find gear. That's not how I learned to play. Why change now?

To sum up... Get your head out of the box and learn to play. MMORPGs are not FPS, and vise versa. They share features but the play style (tab targeting vs hit box) and mentality (BG vs open world) are different, apples and oranges. If I want instant gratification, I play a shooter. RPGs are very time intensive (time sinks) and you have to invest a lot of time (look at Asmongold, he's been playing for over 15 yrs and still hasn't completed original content.), In a shooter I can see the whole world in a few hours.

AoC is my last hope for PvP in a MMORPG, because all others have failed. So if AoC fails, I'll go back to my shooter.

I write this, in hopes to help my community understand, and bridge the gap. Both communities have been at war forever (carebear vs ganker). I have been both, I get it. I just hope I can illuminate you so you understand, and help the community (us, the gamers). I could just shout; L2P! All day, but that's not conducive. I am trying to explain the differences so both communities can understand, so we can have our cake and eat it too.

I hope someone more eloquent than I, will pick this ball up and write an article on this subject. But, in the mean time. Please flame me, so this gets bumped, and we help the community.

Peace, out?

Jubilum

An epic rant, I just have no idea what it was about.

Malc

^ Agree with this. I assume the rant is about him wanting battlegrounds implemented maybe?

ZoddTheImmortal

Games like Chivalry: Medieval Warfare or For Honor, both on Steam, might help you scratch your PvP itch while you wait for AoC to release.

Xenotor

Battlegrounds will not be a thing.
It would take away players from the open world pvp mechanics such as Caravans.
Also AoC is not trying to carter to everyone as past MMORPGs tried.
You want to do PVP then you have to do PVE.
Want to do PVE then you have to do PVP.
Both sites are equally forced to participate in the other spectrum.

Alternative search for people who do the PVE stuff for you while you are their PVP guy on call to kill people.
You knwo be social. The thing that MMOs are all supposed to be about but discarded for quick money.
Srly this is most likely not your game OP.

Kneczhevo

Wow was I that conveluted? Am I just ranting? I don't think so. I see all sorts of arguments on these topics in other threads, and I don't have the time to reply to all of them, so I just summed them up in this thread. Perhaps, I should create a thread; Wow vs Fortnight.

GodsThesis

Kneczhevo wrote: »

As a PvPer I feel I need to explain to the AoC (MMORPG) community what we want.

You should probably not include the "speaking for the PvP community part." As a PvPer you certainly don't speak for me.

Also, I can't tell if OP is being serious or writing a fanfic.

Kneczhevo

I was addressing the community as a PvPer, not representing. Please read the post.

NelsonRebel

Reading this gave me a headache

And I love pvp

Yuyukoyay

The game is going to have low dps by design. Deal with it scrub. It actually makes PvP better in the long run. XD

Boss encounters will be more fun too because you can't just rush them down with DPS. The 30 second metric is just proof of how low the damage is going to be. It also balances DPS better with the other roles so that the other roles will feel more fun. DPS will still probably do the most damage, but the disparity will probably be lower than some MMO's.

It sounds pretty similar to how Everquest is. That is a game where you do low damage, but the bosses or just certain mobs can pretty close to instantly kill you if you aren't careful. However, a lot of the classes had op as hell spells to make it fair and fun.

Tyrantor

Open world pvp is an important part of the game. While you may only want competitive even match play, that isn't the point in the game. Open world pvp is going to create strife and conflict among guilds that are raiding dungeons, farming, questing and gathering. These conflicts will then result in political conflict in the game between nodes, castles etc. In addition it creates an element of danger and excitement when you're out picking those flowers you seem so keen on.

Lastly the game appears to have Arena's in the plan so i'm not really sure why you would be against other PvP options if in fact you were a true PvPer.

GodsThesis

Kneczhevo wrote: »

I was addressing the community as a PvPer, not representing. Please read the post.

What you thought you wrote and what you actually wrote are two different things. People make mistakes. You literally wrote, "what we want" in the beginning.

The implication then is that what you wrote is what others want. That's why I suggested leaving that part out.

Kneczhevo wrote: »

Wow was I that conveluted? Am I just ranting? I don't think so.

This is literally a textbook example of a rant: you wrote passionately and excessively.

Kneczhevo wrote: »

I hope someone more eloquent than I, will pick this ball up and write an article on this subject. But, in the mean time. Please flame me, so this gets bumped, and we help the community.

If you admit and hope for someone more eloquent to write then isn't it likely that what you wrote is convoluted?

You could delete half of your post at minimum, and sum up the rest by saying, " I think PvP progression should be a viable path without exploring PvE/ the world. Let me stay in the arena and queue up forever. Add a gear shop for PvPers. The developers should cater to my playstyle."

I'm not a grammar nazi or anything man but your writing style is quite out there... you should make your points about what you want near the beginning or the beginning of paragraphs and state them clearly as points, not as examples or hypotheticals.

I also don't really know what you want. I just assumed what you wanted. You should try to be more coherent, concise, and clear. It'd make it easier to discuss the topic.

This game doesn't seem to be for you though.

Warth

seems like AoC might just not be the game for you OP.

Ever tried mobas? Those seem to fit your needs quite well

Saint_Abraham

TLdr: Gun go pew pew, Carebears, WHat the fuck!?

Jexz

I got half way through and couldn't tell if this was a troll post or not.

HiddenDaggerInn

I love PvP, that being said, I could careless about arena's where everyone knows you're going to stealth or what you're going to do ahead of time. To me PvP is the element of surprise while out in the great outdoors. DAoC did PvP right with objectives in the frontier on such a vast land that you could go for objectives or simply stalk solo.

That being said that area is pretty much a opt in, so if Pve'rs don't want to they're safe in the castles. A system where PvP'ers can gain control of Resource heavy areas for our crafters would be Ideal, or castles the hold secret relics we can bring back to our cities. a Place where 8 man groups run and develop synergy, and solo people could stalk the carefully looking for the 1 person trying to catch up to the group or just exploring.

Outside dungeons in this area would be fantasitic too.

Ravudha

Kneczhevo wrote: »

Honestly, I don't care. I just want to que for a Battle Ground (arena) and start curb stomping. I don't need to see the world, I kill at will. There is no reason why I am being required to go out and pick flowers....

.."Well, you need to go out and get some raid gear". Wtf!? I don't raid. I like my arena battles and your telling me to go out and pick flowers?...

So the only issues you have with MMORPGs are:

1) the MMO aspect of them
2) the RPG aspect of them

Sounds like this isn't the game for you.

Samson1

Kneczhevo wrote: »

Firstly, I am being told there is a whole world out there to PvP in. Honestly, I don't care. I just want to que for a Battle Ground (arena) and start curb stomping. I don't need to see the world, I kill at will. There is no reason why I am being required to go out and pick flowers. Not my cup of tea. Don't force me to play that style, I am a killer. Why should I have to ask for a group, when I can headshot from 1k. Oh, wait. I can't headshot, it takes 20+ seconds to whittle that guy down, wtf!?! Pew pews shouldn't take that long...

Steven doesn't negotiate with terrorists.

Incarnatus

AOC is an MMORPG. It is complex (maybe too complex for some individuals?) AOC has depth. It is not a trivial game. It is meant to evolve over time based upon players actions. In real life there are consequences for ones actions. To be realistic this game also needs consequences for actions, be it PVP or any other aspect it is trying to portray. The player does not determine the path the game takes. The player simply follows that path ....

Caeryl

While I get the satire here, ya really need a sarcasm tag or something because I’m pretty sure no one else read it through because it sounds almost serious

Tyrantor

Caeryl wrote: »

While I get the satire here, ya really need a sarcasm tag or something because I’m pretty sure no one else read it through because it sounds almost serious

I'm sorry you read the whole thing. lol

FuryBladeborne

OP,

The basic concepts of PVE and PVP being intertwined is the basis of meaningful change in the world. They can't be separated without removing the concepts of the world responding to the player as PVE builds the world and PVP changes or destroys what has been built.

You don't actually have to raid or craft or gather (not even pick the flowers you seem to be obsessed with avoiding). Almost none of the gear in Ashes is bound, not even after equipping it. This means you can buy virtually everything if you have the coin. You seemed to be OK with attacking caravans in your post, that is one way to turn a profit through PVP. You may need a certain group of friends or guild to make your play style work, but it does not look impossible to focus on PVP and exclude crafting along with a lot of PVE as well.

You could also look for a guild that wants to focus on the PVE elements of gathering, processing, and crafting but also would like a group of players focused on protecting the caravans. Such a group might support your crafting needs perfectly.

All that being said, if it just impossible for you to deal with the PVE elements then unfortunately as others have said, Ashes is not being created for everyone. The hardcore PVPer, the one that absolutely will not PVE is not catered to in Ashes (The PVEer that will not PVP is not being catered to either). Fortunately, everyone can grow and learn new things so perhaps many of these "hardcore" PVPers (or PVEers) can reform

Bot

PvP arenas won't be a thing, which I'm somewhat fine with, but I do think it's important that PvP is rewarding. I want to be able to gear up almost strictly through PvPing as my source of income. The point of the game is that you need to interact with other parts of the economy like crafters for example. I think that should also extend to people that PvP. PvPing should result in some sort of raw materials, gear, and possibly tools/designs to make it lucrative. In way too many MMOs pvp is 'just a time sink' rather than a legitimate means to an end while people who just farm bosses and spam dungeons are making bank. Not to say Ashes will be this way, but I do hope they make different aspects of the game essential for end-game crafting and gearing up that requires those who don't participate in area to engage in trade.

FuryBladeborne wrote: »

Fortunately, everyone can grow and learn new things so perhaps many of these "hardcore" PVPers (or PVEers) can reform

There's nothing to reform about though. Everyone has their own specific interests in a game. Some like to pvp, some like to pve, some like to craft, and some just enjoy socializing. If I just want to pvp all day, let me have the ability to get access to high tier designs for add-ons to caravans and ships, pvp obtainable only material needed to craft weapons, and pvp obtainable only gems to enchant gear. If I just want to farm boss mobs all day let me get access to a rare material like the feather of a boss to craft a high tier potion, rare accessories like the necklace of a boss, and a book from the boss on how to craft high tier tools. If I just want to run dungeons all day let me get special dust from a dungeon to craft high tier potions, rare designs for armor, and accessories like the ring of the final boss. If I just want to craft all day add a proficiency system where people who specialize in alchemy can craft these high tier potions and obtain the materials from these various players so they can mark up the prices and sell for a high profit since only so many people specialized and can craft it. If someone just wants to socialize and hangout with their guild maybe have a system in place where they can go on adventures and find special naval designs and open chests with a chance to have a rare gem used for crafting high tier accessories.

Stuff like this is important for a varied and fulfilling gameplay experience. There are only so many hardcore players that will have multiple accounts multiboxing doing everything every day. Nobody wants to waste hours to days at a time just to enjoy the aspect of the game they want to actually do. Does a lot for cohesion when everyone can pick their role in a guild and have everyone come together much like a real life corporation. Everyone isn't just a generalist, people specialize.

Caeryl

Tyrantor wrote: »

Caeryl wrote: »

While I get the satire here, ya really need a sarcasm tag or something because I’m pretty sure no one else read it through because it sounds almost serious

I'm sorry you read the whole thing. lol

Honestly same

FuryBladeborne

bot wrote: »

PvP arenas won't be a thing, which I'm somewhat fine with, but I do think it's important that PvP is rewarding.

Arenas in Ashes: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Arenas
Rewards are unknown except that it will not include gear. Hopefully more information will be coming with the release of information about military nodes.

bot wrote: »

I want to be able to gear up almost strictly through PvPing as my source of income.

See my post immediately above yours to see how you may use gains from PVP to pay for gear. However, in game systems will not directly reward PVP with gear.

HowlingWolf80

If you wanna kill people in 3 seconds and just PVP go play Call of Duty not this...... This seems like a troll or copy paste edited meme post.......

Ulf

You guys got a bit agro with OP...

Let the man explain his train of thought ...

On topic. The MMORPG experience is meant to be a mixture of all. Open world PVP is not the same as Battleground/Arena Pvp... I'm pretty sure there will be some, but will be like a good side dish, depending on the community mostly.

But I do think that you had other kind of game in mind when you wrote your post mate. The Idea is to have some sort of PvP Arena included, but will definetly not be the experience you describe. Who knows tho.

Have a great day !

Ulf

Dolyem

All I really got out of this is maybe you want MMORPGs to have PvP like an FPS? And to that I say....this game is probably not for you. Go play battle royales or whatever, the MMORPG genre doesnt work that way with the abilities you get. Better yet you may enjoy warframe if FPS is your style.

3am

So you want to divide the community in a game that is community based, with pve,pvp, and crafting intertwined. Maybe league of legends? Its all battle grounds all the time! You want a bg? Go outside and declare war to n a guild, its a huge battleground. Go gank a world boss mid fight, steal resources from caravans! Why would you want something so static as a battleground. Step up to the challenge! An ever changing dynamic battleground is all around you!

Leroher

Until OP doesn't come and tries to clarify wtf he tried to say, we will only write almost in vain.

Speed

Instanced PvP bad

OW PvP good