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Best anti stunlock system i know
Kusaijshi
Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
hey first of all my english isnt that good so im not so good with words for explaining 
.
i played many games PVE and PVP but the biggest problem with PVP are the stun abilitys.
1 you get stunlocked like in WOW and that kinda sucks for more reasons.
-if you are the locked person you can go afk and its totally anti fun
- some classes will be useless if you cant stunlock because the dmg and defense of this class depends on stun. so if the enemy frees himself you lost 90%
i dont realy like the system where the stuns are getting weaker and weaker because in long groupfights ( 8v8 groups guildfights) it will be a heal/tank meta because if you cant be killed fast enought you will be immun for the rest of the fight because you always get somehow a stun ability so the timer resets.
then i played AoC (Age of Conan) funny Aoc
and i realy loved the anti stun system there.
all CC abilitys were ranked in the art of CC
stun
knockback
knockdown
root
slow
sleep
disoriantated
like this.
then the fight begine and you get stuned you get the full stun duration. BUT you get a buff whitch makes you 100% immun to all other stun abilitys BUT you can still be CC from all other forms of CC and the timer was like 40 sek. if im not mistaken.
this was good for some reasons.
you wasnt able to stunlock killed ( most time) because most classes only had like 2-4 different CC arts. noonw was able to do every form of CC.
a 2v1 was a bit fairer most of the time because a barbar for example had more than 1 stun ability but in a 1v1 its not so useful only for damage but in a 2v1 you could stun both enemys but they still could only stun you 1 time.
and in longer fights you needed to remind witch target was immun to witch CC and the skillcap for that was high in group fights because someone needed to time the group CCs to swap target if CC burst was rdy again after 40 sekends.
and so you never was at a point like yea all CC abilitys are useless now so damage only xD.
the 1v1 skillcap or open world PVP was higher too because you always needed to know the enemy timers and your own. sure they were shown as Buffs but still need to know all icons and still doing your movement/ability etc.
realy like that system in PVP. for PVE its not that usefull. could be turned off in pve so raids are easier to balance.
raidboss with fear should be able to fear you all time not immun^^
.i played many games PVE and PVP but the biggest problem with PVP are the stun abilitys.
1 you get stunlocked like in WOW and that kinda sucks for more reasons.
-if you are the locked person you can go afk and its totally anti fun
- some classes will be useless if you cant stunlock because the dmg and defense of this class depends on stun. so if the enemy frees himself you lost 90%
i dont realy like the system where the stuns are getting weaker and weaker because in long groupfights ( 8v8 groups guildfights) it will be a heal/tank meta because if you cant be killed fast enought you will be immun for the rest of the fight because you always get somehow a stun ability so the timer resets.
then i played AoC (Age of Conan) funny Aoc
and i realy loved the anti stun system there.all CC abilitys were ranked in the art of CC
stun
knockback
knockdown
root
slow
sleep
disoriantated
like this.
then the fight begine and you get stuned you get the full stun duration. BUT you get a buff whitch makes you 100% immun to all other stun abilitys BUT you can still be CC from all other forms of CC and the timer was like 40 sek. if im not mistaken.
this was good for some reasons.
you wasnt able to stunlock killed ( most time) because most classes only had like 2-4 different CC arts. noonw was able to do every form of CC.
a 2v1 was a bit fairer most of the time because a barbar for example had more than 1 stun ability but in a 1v1 its not so useful only for damage but in a 2v1 you could stun both enemys but they still could only stun you 1 time.
and in longer fights you needed to remind witch target was immun to witch CC and the skillcap for that was high in group fights because someone needed to time the group CCs to swap target if CC burst was rdy again after 40 sekends.
and so you never was at a point like yea all CC abilitys are useless now so damage only xD.
the 1v1 skillcap or open world PVP was higher too because you always needed to know the enemy timers and your own. sure they were shown as Buffs but still need to know all icons and still doing your movement/ability etc.
realy like that system in PVP. for PVE its not that usefull. could be turned off in pve so raids are easier to balance.
raidboss with fear should be able to fear you all time not immun^^
1
Comments
In open world, diminishing CC durations is planned, and I’d go so far as to want full cc immunity after being hit with more than three cc abilities. I’d also like potions or skills that can make me immune to cc for a duration.
An alternate idea may be to introduce tenacity, like in league of legends. For those of you who don't know, tenacity reduces the duration of cc. You could implement this as a stat for gear. For eg: Plate gear could have lesser tenacity than cloth/leather gear because of its increased weight.
I loved this system too for the reasons you explained, its a shame the game was so buggy. It could have been a winner for its time.
Yeah it's a must, mmo's creates scenarios where chaining anything can be abused by numbers.
You however had only limited stat points.
So it was always a trade of Dmg for more suitability.
This could work well in AoC with its Crafting system that allows to craft certain stats.
% Bonus dmg on that Plate chest or % CC resistance.
Choices. Always good to have.
No to CC immunity potions. CC immunity skills, maybe if its very short duration. I think each class will need at least one skill that breaks them out of hard/soft CC.
I think there needs to be a DR system on hard CC, which it sounds like there is. Maybe a different system for soft CC since you can still use your abilities during soft CC.
We are recruiting PvPers!
Even the reduction on some Cc was useless linke headnut or sheep
1 sheep 30 sekends
2nd sheep 15 sekends....
Useless System bacause Image went out of cobalt and was able to regenerative health with good???????
A 100immunity to 2nd sheep would be much better.
I don't consider sheeping something or putting something to sleep "stun locking" because upon taking damage, you are out of it.
And sheeping someone is very strong if you get out of combat and can heal yourself with food.
And in a 2v2 or 3v3 its Not a CC to turn the 3v3 into a 3v2 for 30 sekends because the 3rd player is running circles as sheep?
This keeps being Perma CC'd when out numbered no issue. it also still allows skilled players a burst window by timing their CC's. As well as defensive aide if you are good at keeping your CC's up on cool down in 1v1 scenarios. Not only does the system flow well with combat it eliminates an overly complicated system.
They also had a cool interrupt armor system that made it so that teams had to coordinate multiple interrupts instead of just one person handling it. I think in PvP you could pop a item or ability that gave the player a single immunity to the next CC for a very short window.
I never felt like I was going to get chain stunned in Wildstar PvP.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
I know it's a different Genre, but it's the reason I can't get behind combo fighters and prefer footsie fighting games like Smash or Street Fighter.
When the proficiency of a player depends on how well they can press the right buttons in the right order it's no longer a pvp game, it's a pv-self game, because the player is really only playing against his own ability to press the buttons he memorized instead of reading the other players actions and reacting accordingly.
I frequently refer to combo fighters as "Guitar-hero" fighters because after the initial strike, they're just pressing their memorized buttons, and their success depends on how well they do so.
I know the game has mixed reviews, but I like GW2's combat system for this reason. I know that there's stunlocking that happens in GW2 but it's relatively rare and mostly requires team coordination. GW2 combat is all about short-duration buffs and short-duration negative afflictions so that combat is fast paced and you're always reacting and never reach a point where, "oh X happened and now I know I'm 100% confirmed dead in 10 seconds". In GW2 stuns are short-term and rare. Most CC is done through knockbacks, pulls, dazing / silencing, slows, blinds (next damage instance will miss), etc. and all of these effects are over quick, leaving no time for the player to think, "Ok, I have no agency in this fight now"
Edit: It does look like AoC is going to have a more slower paced combat with classic mechanics, like longer CC's, long DoT's etc. which is fine, but it does need a good way to remove the negativity that comes with, "Oh I got stunned for 10 seconds so I'm actually not really playing the game anymore it's just a snuff film where I'm the main character", or "Oh the warlock put 5 DoT's on me and I have no way to stop the inevitable death that's going to hit me in 12 seconds might as well jump off this cliff"
Then again I'm also of the opinion that no matter what class you play nobody needs to have 5-6 hard CC's.
A rogue does not need a stun a cripple is more than enough, this can be done with a throwing dagger skill which can be used in stealth.
CC-locking (stun, fear, root, spam) should not be possible, and any kind of CC ability (not slow/cripple) should break stealth giving a debuff that you cannot instantly stealth.
abilities such as a charge on a warrior, blink on a mage, shadowstep on a rogue, etc. should have the ability to CC break or if not CC't, when used, give a few second protection against them
Sheeping is CC as well and frankly should be a trade-off skill. Sheeping someone should remove all other effects and give them a 20% speed boost. This makes it interesting for both players.
But I do need to push back against one thing... Any good game is pv-self to an extent. Even an MMO with only the minimum of action style to it should rely on the player being able to act and react properly with the correct timing. I get what you are saying, and I feel your pain and hope we don't see anything like that in AoC. I just had to speak on that one point here.
Oh definitely, I'm not saying we need absolutely 0 combo play, just a well thought out ratio of them. Obviously there's going to be skills like, "place dot" and other abilities that use said dot to do things like transfer dot or spread it or explode it, which is a form of pv-self because you're just pressing buttons based off your own buttons. As long as that's not all you're doing and there's variety it's all good. Moderation is key
I've made this exact argument towards many people online and with my friends. Games are made to be played, control and agency is baked hard into the entire concept of video games. Every time you take away control from a player it becomes a short film and is no longer a video game during that timeframe. Not that there aren't moments when it makes sense to take away control, but definitely not any time the player could think they should have control. On that note I once had a friend refuse to see a difference between being stunned by Brigitte in Overwatch and being dead, waiting to revive. In one instance, you're still engaged in combat and it's entirely jarring to suddenly lose complete agency in your fate, and the other is you knowing you have no agency in the current state and have no reason to get angry at such. But that's starting to get off topic from the hard CC argument.
The thing is it's one of these concepts that the majority doesn't even think about because it's something that become so normalized in games that they just accept that it's how things are meant to be.
Not sure if you read my post above or not, but I do agree with you and @jubilum. I do not like them either however they are needed. I just hope they do it right. The reason games like this have Slows, Immobilization, Soft, and Hard CC's is directly related to the combat. A couple examples: Without a slowing effect can you imagine trying to kill a character built for speed? Without a Hard CC can you imagine trying to time a burst combo on a healer?
Those are just offensive examples. It works defensively as well. Attacked from stealth by a rouge class? Left reeling nearly dead. A quick defensive CC and you have time to create distance, heal, and apply buffs.
The entire core of combat in any MMO I have played is built with these principles in mind. It is just how the combat works. From what I can see there is no ground breaking combat being designed. It seems traditional.
I really hope they get it right though. If it were up to me there would be a global immunity window as I mentioned previously. There also needs to be a way to break the stun as well. Whether it comes from class skills or some form of resource doesn't matter. We just need to be able to break it. If we can break it then that control you mentioned is there for you, as long as you use it at the right moments.
While I've always been irritated by them, I recognize they add a higher level of combat gameplay and thinking as well as build design and approach when players size up against one another.
I definitely do not put slows in the same category as stuns. You still retain control of your character when slowed. Roots are also ok because you still have options and feel you have some agency.
STUNS specifically are abhorrent because they completely lock you out of interfacing with the game. My main point is that "no agency = anti fun".
Hell, stuns would be fine if you could mash out of them somehow because you have some agency in that scenario. Before i get counted with "what about stunbreak skills?" I'll say that if there's ever a moment when there's no agency in a situation where you have something to lose its going to feel entirely and unequivocally shitty. Sure stunbreaks are fine when you have them, but when they're on cooldown it's right back to that hellhole making it not decent solution
I agree we’re better off not having them at all. I’m good with slows, roots, skills that temporarily lock abilities, but I don’t want anything that absolutely prevents you from doing anything for even a short time.
#keepstuns
I can tell you did not read at all through this thread and just replied based on emotion
But I will humor you.
I'm not sure what you mean that ranged classes and tanks can't survive if there are no stuns? I literally have no idea what you're referring to here.
Maybe you're saying ranged classes won't have a way to get away from melee classes without a stun? Well what about slows or roots? That's an obvious answer right?
Oh but then you mention Tanks? I guess because they have to chase? Well there's always slows/roots for them too.
That's not even mentioning movement abilities to either close the gap or widen the gap.
Honestly your comment is so far outside logic I don't even know how to address it. Read through this thread and think critically about the issue instead of posting kneejerk reactions