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is this a possible flaw in the corruption system ?

BolornyBolorny Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
I've been thinking about the corruption system for a bit, here is a possible flaw of the system that dampens the "risk vs reward" of PvPK

Scenario :
Nobody is corrupted yet.
One player X is harvesting ressources.
3 players A, B, C are friends and they want to PK player X to steal a part of the ressources he is carrying.

Players A and B go purple, and player C stays green.
Players A and B kill player X, who does not fight back, he stays green.
Players A and B get corruption from killing green player X.
Upon dying, player X drops a small portion of the materials he was carrying, players A and B loot them.
Player X respawns, probably far away.
Before Player X comes back, player C activates PvP and players A and B let him kill them fast.
Since players A and B were corrupted, player C doesn't get corrupted.
Since players A and B were corrupted, they might drop some of their stuff, but their friend player C retrieves everything if that happens.
Since players A and B were corrupted, they lose some of their corruption on death, maybe all their corruption (since they only killed one player, their corruption amount wasn't big).
Players A and B return to green non-corrupted status.

Conclusion :
These guys killed the poor harvester player, stole a part of his ressources, and they get no consequences for it.

If it works, I'm pretty sure this will be abused, which is a shame, because it defeats the purpose of "risk vs reward".

Comments

  • loghanloghan Member, Alpha Two
    The devs and GOS (God of Sandals) thought of this. Their fix to prevent that sort of workaround is Experience Debt given to you upon death. You get Exp Debt when you die, no matter what, whether corrupted or not, Green, Purple, Red. So as the guys in your story above circle up and kill eachother, each one that dies gets experience debt which is bad, so bad that having your friend kill you just to get rid of corruption is not economically worth it.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death
    Here are the handicaps that having Experience Debt causes:
    [*] Skill and stat dampening
    [*] Lower max health and mana
    [*] Lower gear proficiency
    [*] Reduction in drop rates from monsters (this is a big one, you get less loot from your mobs)
    [*] Durability loss (big bucks repairing your armor after your friends killed you just to remove corruption)

    IF these downsides caused by Exp Debt do not outweigh the pros of being corrupted then it's a simple matter for the devs to just further increase those exp debt penalties, and keep increasing until the unintended behaviors stop happening.

    I like where your head is at bolorny, there are a couple of holes in the mechanics, as testers it's up to us to find them, to try them out in alpha/beta and report it in. We can bring it up in the forums but ultimately it'll be up to us to get in testing and prove it. I have a couple on my list to try out already!
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    People have been trying to break the corruption system and find flaws in it for over 3 years. Your one has been brought up hundreds of times, and no, it isn't a flaw because you still gain massive amounts of xp debt after dying as corrupted. Plus it isn't like you're guaranteed to drop gear once corrupted, especially if you've only killed one person.
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  • LeroherLeroher Member
    Bolorny wrote: »
    I've been thinking about the corruption system for a bit, here is a possible flaw of the system that dampens the "risk vs reward" of PvPK

    Scenario :
    Nobody is corrupted yet.
    One player X is harvesting ressources.
    3 players A, B, C are friends and they want to PK player X to steal a part of the ressources he is carrying.

    Players A and B go purple, and player C stays green.
    Players A and B kill player X, who does not fight back, he stays green.
    Players A and B get corruption from killing green player X.
    Upon dying, player X drops a small portion of the materials he was carrying, players A and B loot them.
    Player X respawns, probably far away.
    Before Player X comes back, player C activates PvP and players A and B let him kill them fast.
    Since players A and B were corrupted, player C doesn't get corrupted.
    Since players A and B were corrupted, they might drop some of their stuff, but their friend player C retrieves everything if that happens.
    Since players A and B were corrupted, they lose some of their corruption on death, maybe all their corruption (since they only killed one player, their corruption amount wasn't big).
    Players A and B return to green non-corrupted status.

    Conclusion :
    These guys killed the poor harvester player, stole a part of his ressources, and they get no consequences for it.

    If it works, I'm pretty sure this will be abused, which is a shame, because it defeats the purpose of "risk vs reward".

    It's not worth it cuz of the exp debt, as loghan said, and also, I don't think you lose the same amount of corruption you won killing one person by just dying once (but I don't know).
  • NelsonRebelNelsonRebel Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Its good to think of these things though.

    Corruptions anti-griefing measures only work as long as the coding for it is built right.

    We know theres going to be those groups of players doing everything possible to exploit and ruin the game for everyone.

    Luckily even if they do there is the bounty system and we can just grief them for griefing others. I love it.

    Either way its unavoidable someone will figure a way around the corruption at some point using some exploit in the code.

    The difference is there will still be ways to kill them regardless and ruin their experience
  • loghanloghan Member, Alpha Two
    The Devs know the numbers will change in testing so at most we have only been given some ballpark numbers so we know what their intent is. For example Steven has said that if a Lvl 50 kills a fellow level 50 then you get corruption and after killing about 3 people you will really start to feel the pain. And then the other example Steven has given was that if a Lvl 50 ganks a lvl 1, then due to that level disparity you get a huge hit of corruption, basically equal to 10 normal kills. And while never stated flat out, anytime they give these sorts of examples it seems to suggest that 1 death would remove maybe around 2 kills worth of corruption, assuming those kills were lvl 50 vs lvl 50 kind of kills. That's a general guess though.
  • Daedrik45Daedrik45 Member
    I thought you only drop loot when you have lots of corruption....
  • loghanloghan Member, Alpha Two
    @Daedrik45 It's broken down into even more detail than that. instead of "loot" the devs break it down as Raw Resources(Gatherables), Processed Goods (aka Materials), and Crafted items. Raw resources like Iron is Processed to make Materials like an Iron Ingot, which is then used to Craft a shield.

    Death for anyone, whether corrupted or not, causes you to drop some of your Raw Resources (this would be the 10 wolf pelts and 4 piles of coal you have on you) but you will not drop any Processed goods or Crafted items. So as a Non-corrupt player you will not drop potions, armor, or swords upon dying, just Raw Resources you had on you.

    If you're corrupted, then you can drop crafted items like your sword. With only 1 kill's worth of corruption, that % drop chance is low, but that % rises the more corruption you have.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death
    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Materials
  • BolornyBolorny Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    cool, thanks for the clarifications guys !
  • awqawq Member
    Don't focus too much on the negative penalties of pking.
    This game will have more penalties for corruption than Lineage which ran the same pvp concept.

    Keep in mind that you being able to pk unflagged (green) random people griefing you without flagging is also an important anti-grief pillar, which would lose it's point if the penalties were too harsh.

    People can still grief you by following you around, harassing you in various ways, stealing every single one of your mobs and by securing 60% of the dmg done even if you tagged it first, you can't even loot.

    Would be great if you could bury his corpse without having to make a new character due to ultra penalties.
  • loghanloghan Member, Alpha Two
    awq you forgot one griefer activity, the option to train mobs on another group is also still doable and causes no corruption.
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