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Tank Skills & Theorycrafting

SimurghSimurgh Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix, Kickstarter
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Tank Skills & Theorycrafting
In this discussion we outlined the different Tank skills currently being presented as possible class abilities for the Tank class. We discussed ideas within the stream around possible augments when rolling a secondary class. What are some of your ideas? Have questions or just trying to get better acquainted with things around the community? Stop by and say hi and share your thoughts or questions!

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Comments

  • SussurroSussurro Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited August 2020
    I'm primarily a Tank player so, as a piece of meat that absorbs damage, I imagine simple augments that help me mitigate specific kinds of damage (Spellshield), or ones that alter the reach of my skills (Warden), but I'd be partial to the idea of being a pet class as well as tanking (Keeper (even if those pets were temporary)). I'm excited for how Tank will play with the class design AoC has projected.
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” - Terry Prachett, Reaper Man
  • SimurghSimurgh Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix, Kickstarter
    Sussurro wrote: »
    I'm primarily a Tank player so, as a piece of meat that absorbs damage, I imagine simple augments that help me mitigate specific kinds of damage (Spellstone), or ones that alter the reach of my skills (Sentinel), but I'd be partial to the idea of being a pet class as well as tanking (Brood Warden (even if those pets were temporary)). I'm excited for how Tank will play with the class design AoC has projected.

    Oh cool thanks for sharing. So what direction in style of tank do you find yourself leaning? More evasion, shield, or control?

    It would be interesting to see where you end up by the time we get to an A2 sort of time frame! Much love!
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  • SussurroSussurro Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited August 2020
    Oh cool thanks for sharing. So what direction in style of tank do you find yourself leaning? More evasion, shield, or control?

    It would be interesting to see where you end up by the time we get to an A2 sort of time frame! Much love!

    I'd say I'm leaning towards shield, becoming a bulwark that holds the frontline and pushes the enemy back as we advance, boldly standing amidst hostilities as we delve further into unwelcoming places, crushing our enemies, seeing them driven before us, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

    After hearing that I'd imagine you'd think I'd choose Guardian, and I might, but I'm partial to the idea of increasing the range of my skills so that I may reach my enemies sooner. Perhaps Warden's augments would fulfill that fantasy. :)
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” - Terry Prachett, Reaper Man
  • LuthienstormLuthienstorm Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2020
    Before I begin I come from a D&D/GuildWars/WoW MMO Background. One thing I love about DND that MMO's destroy is with the game mechanic called threat. This really dumbs down movement/positioning and combat in general so the abilities are meant to combat units that can't be tank and spanked. The threat mechanic isn't horrible but anyone with any intelligence won't stick to fighting one target when it's getting healed or withstanding all your attacks. The fact that few mobs have attacks that cause players to move astounds me.

    Fighter concept: Masters of Melee, Single target CC, Reposition self and others, Feats of Strength

    Fighters are about combat choices: Armor is good against melee, HP is good against magic, Breaking CC,
    fighters are mobile, and furious melee combatants.
    Good against single bosses or bosses with threat wipe.

    Tank/Fighter: Knight
    I don't like Absorb Bubble, sounds magey or necromancery (prefer "Control Anger")
    Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Fiery Spirit (In addition to Absorb Bubbble has a chance of breaking some CC)
    Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Funneled Fury (Increase damage funneled)
    Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Well Disciplined (Increase fixed amount of damage)
    Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Compete (Increase inertia allowing you to reposition enemies)

    As you can see each ability will be broken down into attack/defense/cc/

    Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

    Bulwark: Increase armor, Increase HP, Pushback on target, strikes 2 targets

    Cover: Friendly Push: Push friendly target away from target damaging it, increase damage reduction, if ranged melee chance of deflecting the attack, able to block spell aoe.

    (Crowd control break) Unyielding Rage: Decrease Cool down, Increase CC Break %, Increase damage when cc is broken, or throw melee cc back at the opponent (low%)

    Hatred: Increase movement/inertia, increase damage, multiple target at reduced damage, decrease enemy armor but increase their weapon attack.

    Heavy Armor: Allow speed movement in heavy armor, damage reduction, increase armor value, give an increased reduction to a particular type of weapon or type of damage.

    Javelin: Put a short slow on targets, reduce armor, increase single target damage, use the javelin as a pole to leap across the field or objects.

    Lacerate: Exploding blood reduces melee attack of enemies, allows enemies to slip in an area, increase damage, exploding blood heals tank(Blood fury)

    Lob Weapon: Disarm, slow enemy, rush the enemy but greatly reduce armor, double strike the target

    Myrmidon's Fury: Increase damage against push back debuff, increase damage against bleeding foes, increasing damage against those knocked down, increased damage after breaking cc.

    Onslaught: Increase damage against those who have 2cc affects. Bleed/KD, Bleed/PB, PB/KD, or break CC/KD

    Shield Might: Break a chest and recover some of the assets, move object, break object, or increase damage of shield might.

    (Fights should have a few chain combo abilities)

    I hope tanks/fighters can use strength to move some objects in the world or bash chests to open them up with a good chance of some things being broken if a rogue isn't there to unlock it. This goes for doors as well. Tanks and fighters should the vanguard of a force. It also allows them to shape the battlefield defensively with preparation or funnel enemies with objects.
  • SussurroSussurro Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

    I want you to know I read that wall of text, and this stood out to me. I now have a desperate need for the Guardian class to dual wield shields. How have I not thought of this? the imagery of a character dual wielding shields is transcendent. I wouldn't be perturbed if most of the skills shared their animation with fist weapons, I must see a tank bashing his opponents with shield laden hands.

    The best OFFENSE is a good DEFENSE.
    “Light thinks it travels faster than anything but it is wrong. No matter how fast light travels, it finds the darkness has always got there first, and is waiting for it.” - Terry Prachett, Reaper Man
  • LuthienstormLuthienstorm Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2020
    Rogue: Master of evasion, stealth, precision, and high single target dps, traps

    Tank/Rogue: Nightshield

    The Nightshield trains in shadow delivering justice to those in opposition to his cause. (Think Batman)

    Nightshield tree: Shadow/tricks/combat (3 pts each starts at 25 so 25 pts total)
    Shadowstep: When using an ability that targets an ally Shadow step to a friendly ally (teleport)
    Shadows Grasp: Ranged abilities leave a trail of shadows that attempt to slow and grapple their foes.
    Shadow Shield: The next attack disappears into the void of shadow
    Blackblade: Decrease the healing your opponent heals
    Night Vision: You see farther, especially at night.

    Tricks:
    Create Trap: Set a trap inside a building or cave
    Poison: Gives a chance to poison enemy when struck
    Gamble: Increase your odds at tavern games (Other players won't know) In addition, increasing chance to hit.
    Unseen: When using perception you learn not only how to look for your enemy but understand how they disappear.
    shadowflame: You tap into the negative energies of the knight and shoot stream of black flame.

    Combat:
    Backstab: Increase damage when behind a character
    Seal lips: Chance to silence
    Precision: Increase critical chance
    Quick footed: Your defensive abilities increase your chance to evade when used
    Favored Weapon: Increase damage with chosen weapon type.
  • ShaladoorShaladoor Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited August 2020
    Sussurro wrote: »
    Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

    I want you to know I read that wall of text, and this stood out to me. I now have a desperate need for the Guardian class to dual wield shields. How have I not thought of this? the imagery of a character dual wielding shields is transcendent. I wouldn't be perturbed if most of the skills shared their animation with fist weapons, I must see a tank bashing his opponents with shield laden hands.

    The best OFFENSE is a good DEFENSE.

    I like the idea of dual wielding shields. It reminds me of the Demon Hunter in WoW in Vengeance (Tank) spec using their artifact weapon. It basically looks like they are holding a shield in each arm that runs up the entire arm.

    And what better class to do it than the Tank/Tank specced Guardian, right?

    I'm also a fan of thorns as an augment to abilities, enchantment to gear, or however you might want to apply it in the game.

    Make that a thing and I'll definitely roll a tank. I may even make it my primary class instead of the Ranger I was planning on.

    Dual wield shields, thorns on each, maybe a possibility for thorns to apply on certain abilities (like those that use the shield to attack)... sounds like a lot of fun. I also realize it sounds a lot like some Diablo 3 stuff, but I'm OK with that :smile:
  • SimurghSimurgh Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix, Kickstarter
    Shaladoor wrote: »
    Sussurro wrote: »
    Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

    I want you to know I read that wall of text, and this stood out to me. I now have a desperate need for the Guardian class to dual wield shields. How have I not thought of this? the imagery of a character dual wielding shields is transcendent. I wouldn't be perturbed if most of the skills shared their animation with fist weapons, I must see a tank bashing his opponents with shield laden hands.

    The best OFFENSE is a good DEFENSE.

    I like the idea of dual wielding shields. It reminds me of the Demon Hunter in WoW in Vengeance (Tank) spec using their artifact weapon. It basically looks like they are holding a shield in each arm that runs up the entire arm.

    And what better class to do it than the Tank/Tank specced Guardian, right?

    I'm also a fan of thorns as an augment to abilities, enchantment to gear, or however you might want to apply it in the game.

    Make that a thing and I'll definitely roll a tank. I may even make it my primary class instead of the Ranger I was planning on.

    Dual wield shields, thorns on each, maybe a possibility for thorns to apply on certain abilities (like those that use the shield to attack)... sounds like a lot of fun. I also realize it sounds a lot like some Diablo 3 stuff, but I'm OK with that :smile:

    Tank/Tank Dual Shield Dream!

    Nice!
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  • SimurghSimurgh Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix, Kickstarter
    Rogue: Master of evasion, stealth, precision, and high single target dps, traps

    Tank/Rogue: Nightshield

    The Nightshield trains in shadow delivering justice to those in opposition to his cause. (Think Batman)

    Nightshield tree: Shadow/tricks/combat (3 pts each starts at 25 so 25 pts total)
    Shadowstep: When using an ability that targets an ally Shadow step to a friendly ally (teleport)
    Shadows Grasp: Ranged abilities leave a trail of shadows that attempt to slow and grapple their foes.
    Shadow Shield: The next attack disappears into the void of shadow
    Blackblade: Decrease the healing your opponent heals
    Night Vision: You see farther, especially at night.

    Tricks:
    Create Trap: Set a trap inside a building or cave
    Poison: Gives a chance to poison enemy when struck
    Gamble: Increase your odds at tavern games (Other players won't know) In addition, increasing chance to hit.
    Unseen: When using perception you learn not only how to look for your enemy but understand how they disappear.
    shadowflame: You tap into the negative energies of the knight and shoot stream of black flame.

    Combat:
    Backstab: Increase damage when behind a character
    Seal lips: Chance to silence
    Precision: Increase critical chance
    Quick footed: Your defensive abilities increase your chance to evade when used
    Favored Weapon: Increase damage with chosen weapon type.

    Love this! Hope to see ya around! Would love to chat Theorycrafting sometime!
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  • SimurghSimurgh Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix, Kickstarter
    Before I begin I come from a D&D/GuildWars/WoW MMO Background. One thing I love about DND that MMO's destroy is with the game mechanic called threat. This really dumbs down movement/positioning and combat in general so the abilities are meant to combat units that can't be tank and spanked. The threat mechanic isn't horrible but anyone with any intelligence won't stick to fighting one target when it's getting healed or withstanding all your attacks. The fact that few mobs have attacks that cause players to move astounds me.

    Fighter concept: Masters of Melee, Single target CC, Reposition self and others, Feats of Strength

    Fighters are about combat choices: Armor is good against melee, HP is good against magic, Breaking CC,
    fighters are mobile, and furious melee combatants.
    Good against single bosses or bosses with threat wipe.

    Tank/Fighter: Knight
    I don't like Absorb Bubble, sounds magey or necromancery (prefer "Control Anger")
    Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Fiery Spirit (In addition to Absorb Bubbble has a chance of breaking some CC)
    Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Funneled Fury (Increase damage funneled)
    Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Well Disciplined (Increase fixed amount of damage)
    Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Compete (Increase inertia allowing you to reposition enemies)

    As you can see each ability will be broken down into attack/defense/cc/

    Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

    Bulwark: Increase armor, Increase HP, Pushback on target, strikes 2 targets

    Cover: Friendly Push: Push friendly target away from target damaging it, increase damage reduction, if ranged melee chance of deflecting the attack, able to block spell aoe.

    (Crowd control break) Unyielding Rage: Decrease Cool down, Increase CC Break %, Increase damage when cc is broken, or throw melee cc back at the opponent (low%)

    Hatred: Increase movement/inertia, increase damage, multiple target at reduced damage, decrease enemy armor but increase their weapon attack.

    Heavy Armor: Allow speed movement in heavy armor, damage reduction, increase armor value, give an increased reduction to a particular type of weapon or type of damage.

    Javelin: Put a short slow on targets, reduce armor, increase single target damage, use the javelin as a pole to leap across the field or objects.

    Lacerate: Exploding blood reduces melee attack of enemies, allows enemies to slip in an area, increase damage, exploding blood heals tank(Blood fury)

    Lob Weapon: Disarm, slow enemy, rush the enemy but greatly reduce armor, double strike the target

    Myrmidon's Fury: Increase damage against push back debuff, increase damage against bleeding foes, increasing damage against those knocked down, increased damage after breaking cc.

    Onslaught: Increase damage against those who have 2cc affects. Bleed/KD, Bleed/PB, PB/KD, or break CC/KD

    Shield Might: Break a chest and recover some of the assets, move object, break object, or increase damage of shield might.

    (Fights should have a few chain combo abilities)

    I hope tanks/fighters can use strength to move some objects in the world or bash chests to open them up with a good chance of some things being broken if a rogue isn't there to unlock it. This goes for doors as well. Tanks and fighters should the vanguard of a force. It also allows them to shape the battlefield defensively with preparation or funnel enemies with objects.

    Lots of goodies in this one! Cheers homie! Love these ideas!
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  • TacualeonTacualeon Member
    edited August 2020
    My thoughts:
    1) Only 1 movement skill is underwhelming, specially if you ever thought about pvp.
    Juggernauts/bruisers/warriors are 50% mitigation, 50% damage. Being kiteable might be their weaknesses and a way of balancing them.
    If he plays very well, or you very poorly, he can get a good chunk of your life in a missplay. Or even burst you down completely.

    Tanks are 50% mitigation, 50% cc. They need mobility to be tactical.
    A tank shouldn't be able to kill you in one single mistake, they need to be able to stick to the zone/character they need to disturb/control. Like a constant pest.


    2) Lacking in ways of controlling the battlefield:
    I suggest these. They can mix and play around with the concepts by changing single target/aoe and cd's to create thousands abilities.

    Knock up
    Knock back
    Attack speed debuff
    Movement speed debuff
    Disarm
    Fear
    Silence
    Snares
    Vulnerability to damage.

    I want a tactical, disruptive/controlling class with some sort of reliable gap closer.
    One aoe attack speed debuff is the least I want.
  • Since cleric is the master of life and death, and can apparently turn summoner into Necromancer...

    Kinda stoked to see what that means for Paladin.

    Using wow as an example I'm hoping I can be more if a Blood DK and less of a Prot Pally.
  • SimurghSimurgh Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix, Kickstarter
    Since cleric is the master of life and death, and can apparently turn summoner into Necromancer...

    Kinda stoked to see what that means for Paladin.

    Using wow as an example I'm hoping I can be more if a Blood DK and less of a Prot Pally.

    Yes! I am pretty excited to see what the Paladins skills really have the potential to look like!
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  • SimurghSimurgh Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix, Kickstarter
    Tacualeon wrote: »
    My thoughts:
    1) Only 1 movement skill is underwhelming, specially if you ever thought about pvp.
    Juggernauts/bruisers/warriors are 50% mitigation, 50% damage. Being kiteable might be their weaknesses and a way of balancing them.
    If he plays very well, or you very poorly, he can get a good chunk of your life in a missplay. Or even burst you down completely.

    Tanks are 50% mitigation, 50% cc. They need mobility to be tactical.
    A tank shouldn't be able to kill you in one single mistake, they need to be able to stick to the zone/character they need to disturb/control. Like a constant pest.


    2) Lacking in ways of controlling the battlefield:
    I suggest these. They can mix and play around with the concepts by changing single target/aoe and cd's to create thousands abilities.

    Knock up
    Knock back
    Attack speed debuff
    Movement speed debuff
    Disarm
    Fear
    Silence
    Snares
    Vulnerability to damage.

    I want a tactical, disruptive/controlling class with some sort of reliable gap closer.
    One aoe attack speed debuff is the least I want.

    We were actually talking about this on a stream we had last week. As much as I love the control a Tank has that seems to be the cost. Even in the earliest tests this was the case. Curious to see how the secondary class skills change them to see what changes in that regard. For me choosing the Paladin path this still seems it will likely be the case. Enjoyed this share though!
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  • LuthienstormLuthienstorm Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 2020
    Ranger: Master of ranged combat, dps, not extremely durable, outdoor traps, swift, camo

    Tank/Ranger: Warden (I want to change it to Huntsman)

    The Warden: At home in the wilderness, sworn to protect those in his domain. (Think Captain America with a forest Ranger Vibe)

    Warden tree: Combat/Land/Weapons (3 pts each starts at 25 so 25 pts total)
    Shield toss: The shield is now a ranged weapon. (Stun your enemies at a distance. Doing so removes your shield stats until it returns. This changes your shield bash and block ability)
    Shield Slide: Increase movement
    Bulwark: Increase % to block
    Spear & net: Cast a snare with your spear abilities
    Spear & net: Dimensional Anchor, increase spear range, + barbed nets

    Land:
    First of the Forest: increase critical light armor
    Stamina of the bear: Increase resistance to stuns
    Bite of the wolf: chance to trip opponent
    Claws of the badger: increase critical heavy armor
    Keen Scent: Can track enemies while in their nodes area of influence

    Combat:
    Shield Throw: Increase damage
    Improved Spear: Increase dimensional anchor, increase range, and barbed nets
    (no shield) Oaken Fist: Unarmed strike, upper cut (increased damage), silence w/strike
    Oakenshield: Increase damage reduction
    Dual wield: Unarmed Strikes or weapons ( & Increase damage)
  • LuthienstormLuthienstorm Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 2020
    Summoner: Dabbles in the arts and pacts of ancient rites long forgotten. This warrior has turned to the spirits or demons of the world to augment his power.

    Keeper: Replaced with Binder makes an ancient pact with dark powers the tank summons spirits into his body to augment his defense.

    The Demonic
    Demon Blood: Increase resistance to poison, add poison damage, reflect poison damage %
    Demonic Ancestry: Increase resistance to fire, add fire damage to an attack, reflect fire damage %
    Demonic Hide: Give damage reduction to melee, give damage reduction to unarmed strikes, increase resistance to arcane damage
    Dark ritual: Using an ability sacrifices health but increases damage, stacking dot, stacking dot + sacrifices health of friendlies around you
    Dark Pact: Increase damage when attack poisoned opponents, increase damage when attacking units on fire, fire damage heals a certain amount of health

    The Fey
    Fey Blood: Increase resistance to frost, add frost damage, reflect frost damage
    Fey Ancestry: Increase healing on tank, add electricity to an attack, reflect nature damage
    Fey Hide: Give damage reduction to ranged weapons, give damage damage reduction, increase resistance to nature damage
    Fey Ritual: Sacrifice health and increase damage for allies, dot, greatly sacrifice health and buff allies
    Tricksters Pact: Fly ten for 10 seconds, Camoflauge your party for 20 seconds no one moves, Increase damage when attack poisoned opponents who have been attacked by frost damage in the last ...

    Feral
    Feral Vitality: Increase health regeneration in combat (On X ability)
    Viscous attack: % to add a bleed affect when using X ability (Stackable)
    Frenzy: Increase damage when attacking something with a bleed affect
    Just an animal: Increase hate generation when using X ability
    Monstrous strength: add a knockback to X abilities

  • LuthienstormLuthienstorm Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 2020
    Mage: High DPS/Magic caster
    Tank/Mage
    Spellshield:

    Fire:
    Scorch snares: Crowd Control break: Improves chance to remove snares on self, remove snares on others, % to remove snares on all characters in area (damages target slightly).
    Flaming Trail: Rush abilities add a fire attack, thrown weapons add fire damage, melee weapons add fire damage
    Bathe in Flames: Cover, heavy armor, and block reduce fire damage
    Hatred: Ignite your foe in fire, increase threat, increase damage
    Flaming Rage: Increase damage with threat
    Eternal Flame: Your entire body ignites with flames eye (perception) increase all fire damage, leave a trail of fire as an obstacle to those who move, fly for 6 seconds at double speed.

    Frost
    Walls of Ice: Block, radius of cover, and absorb
    Chills: Add a slow to your javelin attack, add a chill to your lob attack, add a chill to your melee attack.
    Ice Shards: Add ice damage to aoe,, reduce threat, perception increases critical damage from a frost effect
    Frost over: Your target ally abilities remove burn and bleed effects but slightly deals damage.
    Cold as ice: You never hestitateL Reduce the cool down ability of shield might, shockwave, and walk on water.

    Arcane
    Blue Flame: Increase damage which switching between ice and fire
    Great Intellect: Use intelligence for strength for block, Use INT for, INT for STR, INT for AGI
    Spell Defense: Increase Armor, Increase shield, reduce damage of elemental effects
    Spell Power: add int/half your STR when calculating spell power, 75% 100%
    Artificer: Reduce your ability for an item to break in creation, 10%, 22%, 35%


  • LuthienstormLuthienstorm Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Bard: Support, healer, magic user, trickster, jack of all trades and master of none
    Tank/Bard
    Argent: Means silver; silvery white, heraldric. I am thinking a "white knight" think anime character opposed to a western white knight.

    Love
    Rose whip: Turn your normal melee weapon into a a melee with 5m, 10, & 15m of range.
    Brother in arms: When using an ability that targets a friendly character increase their physical defense.
    Dissenting seed: Your hate instead has a chance to disorientate your enemy preventing him from know friend from foe.
    Allure: Decrease hit chance of enemies within range when using abilities X unless attacking the argent.
    Power of Persuasion: An NPCs treat you better, enemies are less likely to attack you, and other players are more confused about the power of your character.

    Sonic
    Sheer: Add sonic damage to x ability
    Flash: increase speed for x amount of time
    Gale: increase attack speed for x amount of time for x ability
    Shattering phrase: decrease the damage of enemy weapons
    Shatter Point: Increase your ability to break items, doors, and other items.

    Lore
    Master of Lore: Identify how man hp a character has, decipher one ability, increase damage to X creature
    Revitalizing words: When using ability X heal target
    Book worm: When using ability X create weakness X
    Befuddle: When striking with X after a sonic attack decrease the opponents attack power
    Arcane Lock: Silence targeted player with an ability X
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