Tank Skills & Theorycrafting

Simurgh

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Tank Skills & Theorycrafting
In this discussion we outlined the different Tank skills currently being presented as possible class abilities for the Tank class. We discussed ideas within the stream around possible augments when rolling a secondary class. What are some of your ideas? Have questions or just trying to get better acquainted with things around the community? Stop by and say hi and share your thoughts or questions!

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Sussurro

I'm primarily a Tank player so, as a piece of meat that absorbs damage, I imagine simple augments that help me mitigate specific kinds of damage (Spellshield), or ones that alter the reach of my skills (Warden), but I'd be partial to the idea of being a pet class as well as tanking (Keeper (even if those pets were temporary)). I'm excited for how Tank will play with the class design AoC has projected.

Simurgh

Sussurro wrote: »

I'm primarily a Tank player so, as a piece of meat that absorbs damage, I imagine simple augments that help me mitigate specific kinds of damage (Spellstone), or ones that alter the reach of my skills (Sentinel), but I'd be partial to the idea of being a pet class as well as tanking (Brood Warden (even if those pets were temporary)). I'm excited for how Tank will play with the class design AoC has projected.

Oh cool thanks for sharing. So what direction in style of tank do you find yourself leaning? More evasion, shield, or control?

It would be interesting to see where you end up by the time we get to an A2 sort of time frame! Much love!

Sussurro

Oh cool thanks for sharing. So what direction in style of tank do you find yourself leaning? More evasion, shield, or control?

It would be interesting to see where you end up by the time we get to an A2 sort of time frame! Much love!

I'd say I'm leaning towards shield, becoming a bulwark that holds the frontline and pushes the enemy back as we advance, boldly standing amidst hostilities as we delve further into unwelcoming places, crushing our enemies, seeing them driven before us, and hearing the lamentations of their women.

After hearing that I'd imagine you'd think I'd choose Guardian, and I might, but I'm partial to the idea of increasing the range of my skills so that I may reach my enemies sooner. Perhaps Warden's augments would fulfill that fantasy.

Luthienstorm

Before I begin I come from a D&D/GuildWars/WoW MMO Background. One thing I love about DND that MMO's destroy is with the game mechanic called threat. This really dumbs down movement/positioning and combat in general so the abilities are meant to combat units that can't be tank and spanked. The threat mechanic isn't horrible but anyone with any intelligence won't stick to fighting one target when it's getting healed or withstanding all your attacks. The fact that few mobs have attacks that cause players to move astounds me.

Fighter concept: Masters of Melee, Single target CC, Reposition self and others, Feats of Strength

Fighters are about combat choices: Armor is good against melee, HP is good against magic, Breaking CC,
fighters are mobile, and furious melee combatants.
Good against single bosses or bosses with threat wipe.

Tank/Fighter: Knight
I don't like Absorb Bubble, sounds magey or necromancery (prefer "Control Anger")
Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Fiery Spirit (In addition to Absorb Bubbble has a chance of breaking some CC)
Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Funneled Fury (Increase damage funneled)
Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Well Disciplined (Increase fixed amount of damage)
Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Compete (Increase inertia allowing you to reposition enemies)

As you can see each ability will be broken down into attack/defense/cc/

Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

Bulwark: Increase armor, Increase HP, Pushback on target, strikes 2 targets

Cover: Friendly Push: Push friendly target away from target damaging it, increase damage reduction, if ranged melee chance of deflecting the attack, able to block spell aoe.

(Crowd control break) Unyielding Rage: Decrease Cool down, Increase CC Break %, Increase damage when cc is broken, or throw melee cc back at the opponent (low%)

Hatred: Increase movement/inertia, increase damage, multiple target at reduced damage, decrease enemy armor but increase their weapon attack.

Heavy Armor: Allow speed movement in heavy armor, damage reduction, increase armor value, give an increased reduction to a particular type of weapon or type of damage.

Javelin: Put a short slow on targets, reduce armor, increase single target damage, use the javelin as a pole to leap across the field or objects.

Lacerate: Exploding blood reduces melee attack of enemies, allows enemies to slip in an area, increase damage, exploding blood heals tank(Blood fury)

Lob Weapon: Disarm, slow enemy, rush the enemy but greatly reduce armor, double strike the target

Myrmidon's Fury: Increase damage against push back debuff, increase damage against bleeding foes, increasing damage against those knocked down, increased damage after breaking cc.

Onslaught: Increase damage against those who have 2cc affects. Bleed/KD, Bleed/PB, PB/KD, or break CC/KD

Shield Might: Break a chest and recover some of the assets, move object, break object, or increase damage of shield might.

(Fights should have a few chain combo abilities)

I hope tanks/fighters can use strength to move some objects in the world or bash chests to open them up with a good chance of some things being broken if a rogue isn't there to unlock it. This goes for doors as well. Tanks and fighters should the vanguard of a force. It also allows them to shape the battlefield defensively with preparation or funnel enemies with objects.

Sussurro

Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

I want you to know I read that wall of text, and this stood out to me. I now have a desperate need for the Guardian class to dual wield shields. How have I not thought of this? the imagery of a character dual wielding shields is transcendent. I wouldn't be perturbed if most of the skills shared their animation with fist weapons, I must see a tank bashing his opponents with shield laden hands.

The best OFFENSE is a good DEFENSE.

Luthienstorm

Rogue: Master of evasion, stealth, precision, and high single target dps, traps

Tank/Rogue: Nightshield

The Nightshield trains in shadow delivering justice to those in opposition to his cause. (Think Batman)

Nightshield tree: Shadow/tricks/combat (3 pts each starts at 25 so 25 pts total)
Shadowstep: When using an ability that targets an ally Shadow step to a friendly ally (teleport)
Shadows Grasp: Ranged abilities leave a trail of shadows that attempt to slow and grapple their foes.
Shadow Shield: The next attack disappears into the void of shadow
Blackblade: Decrease the healing your opponent heals
Night Vision: You see farther, especially at night.

Tricks:
Create Trap: Set a trap inside a building or cave
Poison: Gives a chance to poison enemy when struck
Gamble: Increase your odds at tavern games (Other players won't know) In addition, increasing chance to hit.
Unseen: When using perception you learn not only how to look for your enemy but understand how they disappear.
shadowflame: You tap into the negative energies of the knight and shoot stream of black flame.

Combat:
Backstab: Increase damage when behind a character
Seal lips: Chance to silence
Precision: Increase critical chance
Quick footed: Your defensive abilities increase your chance to evade when used
Favored Weapon: Increase damage with chosen weapon type.

Shaladoor

Sussurro wrote: »

Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

I want you to know I read that wall of text, and this stood out to me. I now have a desperate need for the Guardian class to dual wield shields. How have I not thought of this? the imagery of a character dual wielding shields is transcendent. I wouldn't be perturbed if most of the skills shared their animation with fist weapons, I must see a tank bashing his opponents with shield laden hands.

The best OFFENSE is a good DEFENSE.

I like the idea of dual wielding shields. It reminds me of the Demon Hunter in WoW in Vengeance (Tank) spec using their artifact weapon. It basically looks like they are holding a shield in each arm that runs up the entire arm.

And what better class to do it than the Tank/Tank specced Guardian, right?

I'm also a fan of thorns as an augment to abilities, enchantment to gear, or however you might want to apply it in the game.

Make that a thing and I'll definitely roll a tank. I may even make it my primary class instead of the Ranger I was planning on.

Dual wield shields, thorns on each, maybe a possibility for thorns to apply on certain abilities (like those that use the shield to attack)... sounds like a lot of fun. I also realize it sounds a lot like some Diablo 3 stuff, but I'm OK with that

Simurgh

Shaladoor wrote: »

Sussurro wrote: »

Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

I want you to know I read that wall of text, and this stood out to me. I now have a desperate need for the Guardian class to dual wield shields. How have I not thought of this? the imagery of a character dual wielding shields is transcendent. I wouldn't be perturbed if most of the skills shared their animation with fist weapons, I must see a tank bashing his opponents with shield laden hands.

The best OFFENSE is a good DEFENSE.

I like the idea of dual wielding shields. It reminds me of the Demon Hunter in WoW in Vengeance (Tank) spec using their artifact weapon. It basically looks like they are holding a shield in each arm that runs up the entire arm.

And what better class to do it than the Tank/Tank specced Guardian, right?

I'm also a fan of thorns as an augment to abilities, enchantment to gear, or however you might want to apply it in the game.

Make that a thing and I'll definitely roll a tank. I may even make it my primary class instead of the Ranger I was planning on.

Dual wield shields, thorns on each, maybe a possibility for thorns to apply on certain abilities (like those that use the shield to attack)... sounds like a lot of fun. I also realize it sounds a lot like some Diablo 3 stuff, but I'm OK with that

Tank/Tank Dual Shield Dream!

Nice!

Simurgh

Luthienstorm wrote: »

Rogue: Master of evasion, stealth, precision, and high single target dps, traps

Tank/Rogue: Nightshield

The Nightshield trains in shadow delivering justice to those in opposition to his cause. (Think Batman)

Nightshield tree: Shadow/tricks/combat (3 pts each starts at 25 so 25 pts total)
Shadowstep: When using an ability that targets an ally Shadow step to a friendly ally (teleport)
Shadows Grasp: Ranged abilities leave a trail of shadows that attempt to slow and grapple their foes.
Shadow Shield: The next attack disappears into the void of shadow
Blackblade: Decrease the healing your opponent heals
Night Vision: You see farther, especially at night.

Tricks:
Create Trap: Set a trap inside a building or cave
Poison: Gives a chance to poison enemy when struck
Gamble: Increase your odds at tavern games (Other players won't know) In addition, increasing chance to hit.
Unseen: When using perception you learn not only how to look for your enemy but understand how they disappear.
shadowflame: You tap into the negative energies of the knight and shoot stream of black flame.

Combat:
Backstab: Increase damage when behind a character
Seal lips: Chance to silence
Precision: Increase critical chance
Quick footed: Your defensive abilities increase your chance to evade when used
Favored Weapon: Increase damage with chosen weapon type.

Love this! Hope to see ya around! Would love to chat Theorycrafting sometime!

Simurgh

Luthienstorm wrote: »

Before I begin I come from a D&D/GuildWars/WoW MMO Background. One thing I love about DND that MMO's destroy is with the game mechanic called threat. This really dumbs down movement/positioning and combat in general so the abilities are meant to combat units that can't be tank and spanked. The threat mechanic isn't horrible but anyone with any intelligence won't stick to fighting one target when it's getting healed or withstanding all your attacks. The fact that few mobs have attacks that cause players to move astounds me.

Fighter concept: Masters of Melee, Single target CC, Reposition self and others, Feats of Strength

Fighters are about combat choices: Armor is good against melee, HP is good against magic, Breaking CC,
fighters are mobile, and furious melee combatants.
Good against single bosses or bosses with threat wipe.

Tank/Fighter: Knight
I don't like Absorb Bubble, sounds magey or necromancery (prefer "Control Anger")
Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Fiery Spirit (In addition to Absorb Bubbble has a chance of breaking some CC)
Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Funneled Fury (Increase damage funneled)
Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Well Disciplined (Increase fixed amount of damage)
Absorb Bubble: Changes: to Compete (Increase inertia allowing you to reposition enemies)

As you can see each ability will be broken down into attack/defense/cc/

Block: Give block a thorns effect, increase block chance, refresh shield smite cool down, allow shield to be used as a dual wielding.

Bulwark: Increase armor, Increase HP, Pushback on target, strikes 2 targets

Cover: Friendly Push: Push friendly target away from target damaging it, increase damage reduction, if ranged melee chance of deflecting the attack, able to block spell aoe.

(Crowd control break) Unyielding Rage: Decrease Cool down, Increase CC Break %, Increase damage when cc is broken, or throw melee cc back at the opponent (low%)

Hatred: Increase movement/inertia, increase damage, multiple target at reduced damage, decrease enemy armor but increase their weapon attack.

Heavy Armor: Allow speed movement in heavy armor, damage reduction, increase armor value, give an increased reduction to a particular type of weapon or type of damage.

Javelin: Put a short slow on targets, reduce armor, increase single target damage, use the javelin as a pole to leap across the field or objects.

Lacerate: Exploding blood reduces melee attack of enemies, allows enemies to slip in an area, increase damage, exploding blood heals tank(Blood fury)

Lob Weapon: Disarm, slow enemy, rush the enemy but greatly reduce armor, double strike the target

Myrmidon's Fury: Increase damage against push back debuff, increase damage against bleeding foes, increasing damage against those knocked down, increased damage after breaking cc.

Onslaught: Increase damage against those who have 2cc affects. Bleed/KD, Bleed/PB, PB/KD, or break CC/KD

Shield Might: Break a chest and recover some of the assets, move object, break object, or increase damage of shield might.

(Fights should have a few chain combo abilities)

I hope tanks/fighters can use strength to move some objects in the world or bash chests to open them up with a good chance of some things being broken if a rogue isn't there to unlock it. This goes for doors as well. Tanks and fighters should the vanguard of a force. It also allows them to shape the battlefield defensively with preparation or funnel enemies with objects.

Lots of goodies in this one! Cheers homie! Love these ideas!

Tacualeon

My thoughts:
1) Only 1 movement skill is underwhelming, specially if you ever thought about pvp.
Juggernauts/bruisers/warriors are 50% mitigation, 50% damage. Being kiteable might be their weaknesses and a way of balancing them.
If he plays very well, or you very poorly, he can get a good chunk of your life in a missplay. Or even burst you down completely.

Tanks are 50% mitigation, 50% cc. They need mobility to be tactical.
A tank shouldn't be able to kill you in one single mistake, they need to be able to stick to the zone/character they need to disturb/control. Like a constant pest.


2) Lacking in ways of controlling the battlefield:
I suggest these. They can mix and play around with the concepts by changing single target/aoe and cd's to create thousands abilities.

Knock up
Knock back
Attack speed debuff
Movement speed debuff
Disarm
Fear
Silence
Snares
Vulnerability to damage.

I want a tactical, disruptive/controlling class with some sort of reliable gap closer.
One aoe attack speed debuff is the least I want.

Hurf Derfman

Since cleric is the master of life and death, and can apparently turn summoner into Necromancer...

Kinda stoked to see what that means for Paladin.

Using wow as an example I'm hoping I can be more if a Blood DK and less of a Prot Pally.

Simurgh

Hurf Derfman wrote: »

Since cleric is the master of life and death, and can apparently turn summoner into Necromancer...

Kinda stoked to see what that means for Paladin.

Using wow as an example I'm hoping I can be more if a Blood DK and less of a Prot Pally.

Yes! I am pretty excited to see what the Paladins skills really have the potential to look like!

Simurgh

Tacualeon wrote: »

My thoughts:
1) Only 1 movement skill is underwhelming, specially if you ever thought about pvp.
Juggernauts/bruisers/warriors are 50% mitigation, 50% damage. Being kiteable might be their weaknesses and a way of balancing them.
If he plays very well, or you very poorly, he can get a good chunk of your life in a missplay. Or even burst you down completely.

Tanks are 50% mitigation, 50% cc. They need mobility to be tactical.
A tank shouldn't be able to kill you in one single mistake, they need to be able to stick to the zone/character they need to disturb/control. Like a constant pest.


2) Lacking in ways of controlling the battlefield:
I suggest these. They can mix and play around with the concepts by changing single target/aoe and cd's to create thousands abilities.

Knock up
Knock back
Attack speed debuff
Movement speed debuff
Disarm
Fear
Silence
Snares
Vulnerability to damage.

I want a tactical, disruptive/controlling class with some sort of reliable gap closer.
One aoe attack speed debuff is the least I want.

We were actually talking about this on a stream we had last week. As much as I love the control a Tank has that seems to be the cost. Even in the earliest tests this was the case. Curious to see how the secondary class skills change them to see what changes in that regard. For me choosing the Paladin path this still seems it will likely be the case. Enjoyed this share though!

Luthienstorm

Ranger: Master of ranged combat, dps, not extremely durable, outdoor traps, swift, camo

Tank/Ranger: Warden (I want to change it to Huntsman)

The Warden: At home in the wilderness, sworn to protect those in his domain. (Think Captain America with a forest Ranger Vibe)

Warden tree: Combat/Land/Weapons (3 pts each starts at 25 so 25 pts total)
Shield toss: The shield is now a ranged weapon. (Stun your enemies at a distance. Doing so removes your shield stats until it returns. This changes your shield bash and block ability)
Shield Slide: Increase movement
Bulwark: Increase % to block
Spear & net: Cast a snare with your spear abilities
Spear & net: Dimensional Anchor, increase spear range, + barbed nets

Land:
First of the Forest: increase critical light armor
Stamina of the bear: Increase resistance to stuns
Bite of the wolf: chance to trip opponent
Claws of the badger: increase critical heavy armor
Keen Scent: Can track enemies while in their nodes area of influence

Combat:
Shield Throw: Increase damage
Improved Spear: Increase dimensional anchor, increase range, and barbed nets
(no shield) Oaken Fist: Unarmed strike, upper cut (increased damage), silence w/strike
Oakenshield: Increase damage reduction
Dual wield: Unarmed Strikes or weapons ( & Increase damage)

Luthienstorm

Summoner: Dabbles in the arts and pacts of ancient rites long forgotten. This warrior has turned to the spirits or demons of the world to augment his power.

Keeper: Replaced with Binder makes an ancient pact with dark powers the tank summons spirits into his body to augment his defense.

The Demonic
Demon Blood: Increase resistance to poison, add poison damage, reflect poison damage %
Demonic Ancestry: Increase resistance to fire, add fire damage to an attack, reflect fire damage %
Demonic Hide: Give damage reduction to melee, give damage reduction to unarmed strikes, increase resistance to arcane damage
Dark ritual: Using an ability sacrifices health but increases damage, stacking dot, stacking dot + sacrifices health of friendlies around you
Dark Pact: Increase damage when attack poisoned opponents, increase damage when attacking units on fire, fire damage heals a certain amount of health

The Fey
Fey Blood: Increase resistance to frost, add frost damage, reflect frost damage
Fey Ancestry: Increase healing on tank, add electricity to an attack, reflect nature damage
Fey Hide: Give damage reduction to ranged weapons, give damage damage reduction, increase resistance to nature damage
Fey Ritual: Sacrifice health and increase damage for allies, dot, greatly sacrifice health and buff allies
Tricksters Pact: Fly ten for 10 seconds, Camoflauge your party for 20 seconds no one moves, Increase damage when attack poisoned opponents who have been attacked by frost damage in the last ...

Feral
Feral Vitality: Increase health regeneration in combat (On X ability)
Viscous attack: % to add a bleed affect when using X ability (Stackable)
Frenzy: Increase damage when attacking something with a bleed affect
Just an animal: Increase hate generation when using X ability
Monstrous strength: add a knockback to X abilities

Luthienstorm

Mage: High DPS/Magic caster
Tank/Mage
Spellshield:

Fire:
Scorch snares: Crowd Control break: Improves chance to remove snares on self, remove snares on others, % to remove snares on all characters in area (damages target slightly).
Flaming Trail: Rush abilities add a fire attack, thrown weapons add fire damage, melee weapons add fire damage
Bathe in Flames: Cover, heavy armor, and block reduce fire damage
Hatred: Ignite your foe in fire, increase threat, increase damage
Flaming Rage: Increase damage with threat
Eternal Flame: Your entire body ignites with flames eye (perception) increase all fire damage, leave a trail of fire as an obstacle to those who move, fly for 6 seconds at double speed.

Frost
Walls of Ice: Block, radius of cover, and absorb
Chills: Add a slow to your javelin attack, add a chill to your lob attack, add a chill to your melee attack.
Ice Shards: Add ice damage to aoe,, reduce threat, perception increases critical damage from a frost effect
Frost over: Your target ally abilities remove burn and bleed effects but slightly deals damage.
Cold as ice: You never hestitateL Reduce the cool down ability of shield might, shockwave, and walk on water.

Arcane
Blue Flame: Increase damage which switching between ice and fire
Great Intellect: Use intelligence for strength for block, Use INT for, INT for STR, INT for AGI
Spell Defense: Increase Armor, Increase shield, reduce damage of elemental effects
Spell Power: add int/half your STR when calculating spell power, 75% 100%
Artificer: Reduce your ability for an item to break in creation, 10%, 22%, 35%

Luthienstorm

Bard: Support, healer, magic user, trickster, jack of all trades and master of none
Tank/Bard
Argent: Means silver; silvery white, heraldric. I am thinking a "white knight" think anime character opposed to a western white knight.

Love
Rose whip: Turn your normal melee weapon into a a melee with 5m, 10, & 15m of range.
Brother in arms: When using an ability that targets a friendly character increase their physical defense.
Dissenting seed: Your hate instead has a chance to disorientate your enemy preventing him from know friend from foe.
Allure: Decrease hit chance of enemies within range when using abilities X unless attacking the argent.
Power of Persuasion: An NPCs treat you better, enemies are less likely to attack you, and other players are more confused about the power of your character.

Sonic
Sheer: Add sonic damage to x ability
Flash: increase speed for x amount of time
Gale: increase attack speed for x amount of time for x ability
Shattering phrase: decrease the damage of enemy weapons
Shatter Point: Increase your ability to break items, doors, and other items.

Lore
Master of Lore: Identify how man hp a character has, decipher one ability, increase damage to X creature
Revitalizing words: When using ability X heal target
Book worm: When using ability X create weakness X
Befuddle: When striking with X after a sonic attack decrease the opponents attack power
Arcane Lock: Silence targeted player with an ability X