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Sub class system

SepiDNSepiDN Member
edited August 2020 in General Discussion
What do you guys think about subclass system? I'v never really been keen to alternative characters myself and having subclass system would have various benefits to it. From what I'v understood games like Final fantasy has this system as well but I will speak from my own experience how subclass system has been implemented in a game that I play.

Currently AoC has planned that you select your main class as usual. and then also choose the secondary class to specialize and that would create your identity. I like that you cannot change these up on the fly, you can't make "all in one class" that many games have and that class has meaning to it.

"When it comes to the the primary archetype, that is a decision you'll want to make and you'll want to make sure it's the right decision, because it's permanent... You are going to create this identity that you can't just change on the fly. This is going to be something that you will know a person and you will know what their base archetype is and they're not just going to change from battle to battle. So that gives some consistency in the engagements and understanding reputation on the server.[31] – Steven Sharif"

Now what I propose is system that keeps you playing your character even if your guild mates or friends are not online and you cannot form a party with your current class. I would like for me to be able to swap classes in town/city but I would not like this to be just "start from 1" as in same as creating alt character but something that builds your character up even more.

Lets say your main class is "warrior". You wont get a party as a warrior so you want to make a subclass to a mage or your guild is just lacking mages. In order to get a subclass you would need to do some epic quest. Once you finish this quest you would be able to start your mage class. Starting the class from a lvl point where you skip the lowest "introduction levels". Let's say you would start from lv10 or 15. Once you would max out this sub class it would open new options for you. enhancing your character even further.

Game that I play has "nobless system" which gives you different benefits once you have 2 classes to certain level and you complete a nobless quest. The nobless quest is also epic and long quest. Once you complete the quest you get Nobless status and Noblesses would get "buff" that lets you keep your buffs upon death but in AoC it could be any other game mechanic. Nobless could get you numerous different smaller or bigger benefits depending how much impact designers would like it to have.

This would make so that:
- You can still enjoy just a single class since the other classes wont be any stronger by default.
- If you do see the extra effort of making another class you get access to higher benefit. And it makes it easier to create parties.
- You will have even more name on the server "That Zillodillo is nobless so they have nobless benefit in the party"
- You can just forget about alts mostly so you don't need everyones alt character name or create alt clans.






Comments

  • ZeekMysticZeekMystic Member
    edited August 2020
    With the current system you can’t switch your primary archetypes. Your secondary archetype adds augments to your main archetype which allows you to change how your active abilities work, they don’t give you assess to that class.

    With final’s job change system you can unlock and play any job on the single character and you have to level them up separately (arcanist is the only exception to this as the job for that class is both summoner and scholar) changing you job is as simple as equipping that jobs main hand weapon (pretty cool).

    With new jobs added they always change what level the new jobs starts at (normally 20 levels below maximum) I personally don’t like this because you now have a level xx job with all these skills and combos that you don’t know how to use effectively leading to some poor gameplay from people. It is my opinion that you need the levelling system to learn how to play a class effectively

    Additionally with this system it cuts a lot of content out for people, those that enjoy levelling and keeps you playing longer. In my opinion if you can get one class up to max and have all others near it by just doing a quest for each you’ve cut out a lot of replay-ability
  • nidriksnidriks Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    I don't know that I wanna be known as nobless. That stigma might stick.

    I think that at this stage of development their plans for the class system will have been built in to the back end. As much as we all might have new ideas, I don't think it is going to be easy for Intrepid to change their class system on the fly now.

    You talk about allowing this possibility through an epic quest at 15 or 20. For me the whole idea of an epic quest is that it is done late in your progress when your skills are at their most advanced.

    I suspect the best we can hope for now is some sort of alternate levelling system after the max level (call it AA for now). This could introduce a new tree of abilities for each class, allowing them to broaden or define their role in the game. For example, a ranger could choose to further focus on enhancing their prowess with a bow or they could chose to become able/more able (might yet be in the game) in the arts of field healing, and be able to support a main healer. A ranger/summoner could enhance their pet abilities in an AA tree, or they chose to get more summoner style direct damage. I'm thinking along the lines of two AA trees, one for your main class and one for your secondary. The abilities for a secondary summoner would not equal those of a primary summoner, for sure.
  • NizzikefNizzikef Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I did enjoy the subclass/nobless system, but I think Intrepid is already pulling a lot from L2.
  • GrimmLibertyGrimmLiberty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    Think of your secondary Archetype as a pool of Ability augments for your primary Archetype, much in the same way as you are granted the Node, Guild, Crafted, and Social augments.

    Swimming analogy:
    You get to choose which one of eight pools you want to swim in.
    Once chosen, you have to stay in that pool.
    You have to swim in one of four lanes. (I think? but maybe you are allowed to cross lanes as you race?)
    After a few races you get to unlock more swim stroke styles.
    Then as you race more for your team, they give you hints as to how to augment your swim stroke even more.
    Sometimes a God intervenes and grants you "special knowledge" on swimming. LOL
    Etc...
  • RavudhaRavudha Member
    edited August 2020
    SepiDN wrote: »
    Lets say your main class is "warrior". You wont get a party as a warrior so you want to make a subclass to a mage or your guild is just lacking mages.

    I'm sorry, I'm totally against allowing characters to swap classes.

    When you pick a class you need to accept its strengths and weaknesses, and that means accepting that some situations won't be ideal for you. Not being needed all the time is not a problem that needs fixing.

    If someone finds these situations happen too often or too problematic, they can always just make an alt or build their network, their social connections, to help fill class gaps when they need to.
  • GrimmLibertyGrimmLiberty Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    It is set in stone by Steven that you NEVER be able to swap you primary archetype.
    He has said, "with work", you can change your secondary...
    but never elaborated as to how or how long it would take.
  • SepiDNSepiDN Member
    edited August 2020
    nidriks wrote: »

    You talk about allowing this possibility through an epic quest at 15 or 20. For me the whole idea of an epic quest is that it is done late in your progress when your skills are at their most advanced.

    "Let's say you would start from lv10 or 15. Once you would max out this sub class it would open new options for you. enhancing your character even further."
    Not at lv15 or 20.
    Ravudha wrote: »
    SepiDN wrote: »
    Lets say your main class is "warrior". You wont get a party as a warrior so you want to make a subclass to a mage or your guild is just lacking mages.

    I'm sorry, I'm totally against allowing characters to swap classes.

    When you pick a class you need to accept its strengths and weaknesses, and that means accepting that some situations won't be ideal for you. Not being needed all the time is not a problem that needs fixing.

    If someone finds these situations happen too often or too problematic, they can always just make an alt or build their network, their social connections, to help fill class gaps when they need to.

    I understand that this is something that has different view and to be honest I was originally against this idea as well. But after playing and getting to experience more content through playing different classes I enjoy change of pace rather fun. Also has me something to do while I wait for my more casual friends to catch up when I level up my subclass. Or I can even level it with them.

    But to the point when class is not needed and you need to broaded your social network. I agree to some extend but I'v seen the ugly side of this. It depends how healthy your server is and how much it matters which certain class you need and just how much clans matter. It might be that this is not a reason you need to sub for if everything is thought out well.

    Making Alts should never be gameplay option in my opinion.
  • TragnarTragnar Member
    This is basically creating an alt character with the same name and same appearance without the need to relog, but instead a swap in major city - This is definitely practical quality of life feature that came from an actual MMO gameplay experience - and the more I think about it the better the idea is - However this is seen by many as an intrusion on their character identity and as such will be quite loudly spoken against.

    So In my opinion this is not going to be inside the game, because of players that are married to their ideal roleplay character and the same players have a really high probability to stop playing after the novelty of the game wears off.

    I wonder If the game is going to cater towards players that want to nolife this game and would heavily benefit from features such as this one.

    If this is going to be in the game then I am definitely of the idea that this feature should be quite gated even more than with max level
    “Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil.”

    ― Plato
  • FoogleFoogle Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    If I could have all classes/primary archetypes on one character and be able to swap out of them when not in combat or when in towns that would be cool and would prevent me having to make atleast 8 alts :) But it's not a gamebreaker for me, I don't mind playing alts either.
  • SepiDNSepiDN Member
    edited August 2020
    Tragnar wrote: »
    This is basically creating an alt character with the same name and same appearance without the need to relog, but instead a swap in major city - This is definitely practical quality of life feature that came from an actual MMO gameplay experience - and the more I think about it the better the idea is - However this is seen by many as an intrusion on their character identity and as such will be quite loudly spoken against.

    So In my opinion this is not going to be inside the game, because of players that are married to their ideal roleplay character and the same players have a really high probability to stop playing after the novelty of the game wears off.

    I wonder If the game is going to cater towards players that want to nolife this game and would heavily benefit from features such as this one.

    If this is going to be in the game then I am definitely of the idea that this feature should be quite gated even more than with max level

    I agree that level should not be the only gate to get it. as I said in the original post "epic quest" which could be something that takes weeks to make. Something that requires you to do a lot of stuff, lots of materials, lots of world bosses etc. or some other way of gating it.

    This is why I enjoy the subclass system because I dont need to make alt, it progresses my character in a special way and it gives you more variety. Also dont need to play around with warehouse from diff characters etc.
    Foogle wrote: »
    If I could have all classes/primary archetypes on one character and be able to swap out of them when not in combat or when in towns that would be cool and would prevent me having to make atleast 8 alts :) But it's not a gamebreaker for me, I don't mind playing alts either.

    Not a gamebreaker for me either. Just a system that I have enjoyed and would like to see it in some form in the game.
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