Is Ammo a thing? Should it be?

WoW in its modern iteration has abandoned ammunition, instead, bows just shoot, and throwing daggers fly, up until the gear breaks. There's something to be said about how cumbersome it is to have a bunch of inventory slots filled with ammo just to have the ability to fight with a bow.

Yet, at the same time, I always saw it as a great tool for immersion to plan ahead with that. Do I buy good arrows, or are cheap ones ok? Do I get some enchanted frost arrows just in case i stumble over a fire hound?

What do you guys think? Is an ammo mechanic good immersion, or just annoying?

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Comments

GrandHarfang

I personally find such a mechanic annoying, but I would mind less if it didn't require you to have ammos just to use your skills, but instead use ammos to provide a one-time effect on your skill (+crit or +fire damage for exemple).

Beekeeper

Since weapon types are not bound to classes, I'd assume that those systems wouldn't overlap.

Khronus

It started out annoying as a hunter in wow but now I am playing a tank in AoC so bring on the ammo requirements haha. For real though, ammo sucks.

Ravudha

I thought they abandoned ammunition because players found the upkeep for their classes annoying and unfair...so I think the data is already in on that

Lfmr

I'd be down as long as there is an enchantment that gives infinite arrows or something down the line that can remove that sort of upkeep

BaSkA_9x2

I enjoy the variety of ammo in RuneScape, I would only argue that there should be a separate bag for arrows, cannonballs, darts, bolts, etc.

Noaani

Ammo could be done in a good way, but I've yet to see it.

The issues with bag space are one factor, but so to are the issues with the cost.

If ammo were implemented in Ashes, I'd like to see some form of endless quiver implemented (which kind of goes against a few things in this game, but what ever). I'd also want to see bows easier/cheaper to repair than other weapons, to make up for the need to supply arrows.

On the other hand, there are things like the potion launcher. Every single shot fired from that should - in my opinion - use up ammo that costs a good amount. It allows players to make use of effects that are not native to their class, and so a bit of cost associated with it's use seems fine to me.

Vhaeyne

They could always have the quivers have %chance to not use ammo. Instead of outright infinite ammo quivers.

I am normally pro ammo, but some games will have skills that force you to machine gun through your ammo. Requiring a infuriating amount of ammo to be carried to make the class useful.

I tend to like it when you can conjure up the basic arrows, but the more powerful ones are crafted, and only used for big boy content. Unless you are wealthy.

I only feel this way because having more consumables in the economy can create more jobs. Some games however it was not meant to be.

CaptnChuck

I don't think it should be. Why is it that, just because you use a bow, you're at a risk of running out of arrows? That will just steer people away from using a bow due to the risk of running out of arrows in the middle of a huge battle.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

They could always have the quivers have %chance to not use ammo. Instead of outright infinite ammo quivers.

I am normally pro ammo, but some games will have skills that force you to machine gun through your ammo. Requiring a infuriating amount of ammo to be carried to make the class useful.

I tend to like it when you can conjure up the basic arrows, but the more powerful ones are crafted, and only used for big boy content. Unless you are wealthy.

I only feel this way because having more consumables in the economy can create more jobs. Some games however it was not meant to be.

Rather than an endless quiver where you put an arrow in and you never run out, I am thinking more where you can put in as many arrows as you like - a limitless quiver perhaps, rather than an endless quiver.

I do like the idea of consumables in combat - be it ammo, potions, poisons, what ever. I just prefer them to be extra things, rather than being needed for the backbone of a build.

In my mind, if a class can conjure up it's own basic arrows, it is probably better off if they just remove that ability from the game and make the assumption that the character just does this - I don't personally find it engaging gameplay to have to keep summoning arrows - and even less so in a game with limited ability slots (very limited, to be fair).

Having it so the game just assumes a basic level of arrow unless the player specifies otherwise works though.

Vhaeyne

Well since it feels like we mostly against it. Or on the fence about it.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Bows

Having one ranged slot, and no ammo slot seems like a big hint to me that we are not going to have ammo.

Which would be perfectly fine by me.

Noaani

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Well since it feels like we mostly against it. Or on the fence about it.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Bows

Having one ranged slot, and no ammo slot seems like a big hint to me that we are not going to have ammo.

Which would be perfectly fine by me.

That does seem highly probable.

That said, they still need a system in place for the potion launcher and it's ammo, so...

To be fair, I'm not against it, I just don't want situations where my group or raid could be held up by a ranger that forgets ammo (which happens often). I do really like the notion of being able to spend more money on better ammo to get better performance, but this is a mechanic that really should be available to all classes or to no classes.

There is no reason at all that an ammo system can't be designed around these two particular things, if it were desired.

nidriks

Beekeeper wrote: »

WoW in its modern iteration has abandoned ammunition, instead, bows just shoot, and throwing daggers fly, up until the gear breaks. There's something to be said about how cumbersome it is to have a bunch of inventory slots filled with ammo just to have the ability to fight with a bow.

Yet, at the same time, I always saw it as a great tool for immersion to plan ahead with that. Do I buy good arrows, or are cheap ones ok? Do I get some enchanted frost arrows just in case i stumble over a fire hound?

What do you guys think? Is an ammo mechanic good immersion, or just annoying?

I wouldn't mind seeing ammo, but I don't know that we have seen guns mentioned yet, so it'd probably just be the likes of arrows, throwing knives, shuriken.

Playing as a hunter in Wow I found it to be a huge money sink to have to buy ammo. Whilst I liked the idea, I did feel that it left me poorer than another class that didn't need ammo.

I'd like to see Intrepid introduce a Fletching skill for rangers to make their own arrows. EQ had that, if I remember correctly.

I would like to see the game have throwing knives, shuriken or some other thrown weapon. They can be a great pulling weapon. Who makes them though? Where as fletching is a suitable skill to give a ranger, is the making of throwing knives too powerful to give a rogue?

Maybe rogues can have a skill where they can coat a smith made knife with poison. That poison would effectively be ammo.

I would definitely like to see special arrows that you might see in a game like Divinity.

Grimfaldra

Ammo can be a nice touch since you could make ammo types with separate bonuses, even changing behavior by introducing range vs. damage trade-offs or allowing players to magic up "special" ammo with skills or spells.

Then again, as it was already mentioned, there is no ammo slot. So chances are not very high that we will see it. Although this is alpha, so things might change yet.

Considering the annoyance of ammo, different quiver sizes and ease of crafting of "regular" ammo can do away with that quite effectively.

The case against ammo is of course the simplification of ranged combat. You have a weapon (bow, sling, crossbow..whatever) and that weapon has all traits you can get. Easier to balance in both PvP and PvE, easier to add new weapon types without having to add in yet another ammo.

Atama

Noaani wrote: »

Vhaeyne wrote: »

Well since it feels like we mostly against it. Or on the fence about it.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Bows

Having one ranged slot, and no ammo slot seems like a big hint to me that we are not going to have ammo.

Which would be perfectly fine by me.

That does seem highly probable.

That said, they still need a system in place for the potion launcher and it's ammo, so...

I was under the impression that the potion launcher was not going to make it to release, has that changed?

I am also against having ammo. We have durability on weapons and other gear, and that seems like enough of a maintenance requirement without adding the burden of ammo on top of it.

Though one thing you can do, maybe bows need ammo and wands need charges, but in compensation they degrade more slowly than melee weapons. Which makes sense; you’re not banging your bow or wand against things the way you are a sword or axe.

Frosty_Tips

Potion launchers are on thin ice, from the various videos I personally think it sounds like a 60% chance they get into game. Stevens most recent comment that I could find was him still saying maybe. But at the same time another video has him referring to the potion launcher as a weapon you will likely use alot in naval combat.
(1:26:15) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPqLl_e3nxw&feature=youtu.be&t=1h26m15s

Beekeeper

Maybe those found a place as cannon-equivalents, since gunpowder wont be a thing? Throwing greek fire on an opposing vessel is proper medieval manners

Atama

Beekeeper wrote: »

Maybe those found a place as cannon-equivalents, since gunpowder wont be a thing? Throwing greek fire on an opposing vessel is proper medieval manners

Sure, siege defenders would pour scalding oil onto people trying to scale the walls, you are just finding a longer-range delivery system that the attackers might use. We know they would toss flaming debris or diseased bodies over walls, this isn’t a big stretch. If potions exist in the game world it makes sense to fire them at people in large scale.

To me that’s more plausible than a rifle-sized potion flinger.

MrPancake

I agree with what others have said. A quiver that doesn't take up bag-space is okay. With the option to fill it with more than enough arrows. (for example: you can have 10k normal arrows and after x level you can buy a new quiver that has the option for 10k normal + 3 x 2k special types of arrows).

I remember a game where it took up space and it's annoying. Being able to take less loot because of your class shouldn't happen.

winner909098

Im okay with ammo, as long as you get infinite base ammo. that way you dont make it so that noobs who dont have a supply of materials for arrows can use arrows.

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