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Will There Be Enough Housing For Every Account to Have Atleast One Home So You Can Be a Citizen?
loghan
Member
*edit to post based on info from this reddit post of a map with exact measurements. I originally assumed too much land vs water play area, which reduces possible freehold max count.
@Zhab posed this question in a thread and it really got me wondering it myself. I always smiled all day long assuming "yes" as I sit on the back of my Snorse mount. But is that the truth really? Would it be a possible problem that on a server maxed out at 50,000 accounts that some people simply won't have a home anywhere to buy and thus never be able to be a citizen (because a requirement of citizenship is home ownership.)
Below is a mad man's attempt at math, or better defined as Some Wild A** Guesses / SWAG. Shout out to @Lex 's Wiki and @Jahlon 's Ashes101 website. as I pulled raw data about tier 3 nodes and world size from them, though they had nothing to do with the madness you are about to read below so don't blame them. Any details after tier 3 we just don't know so I guessed.
To the Ashes Devs if by random chance you read this, if my results are even close to right please blink once, if drastically off and thread should be perma deleted, please blink twice.
I think the greatest enabler are Apartments, even a tier 3 node has 50 apartments, and then each tier above, up through tier 6, automatically gets more in node houses and apartments, and on top of that a mayor may use limited land space to build yet more apartments.
Now this is where we have to start guessing, i'll start with in node houses since they will be the fewest. At tier 3 you get 8 in node homes. Let's assume tier 4 causes the max to be 24, tier 5 = 48, and tier 6 metro = 96.
Then Apartments, lets start by assuming the mayor builds no extra apartments, they only get the "Free" apartments that are added automatically regardless every time a node levels. So 50 initial apts at tier 3, lets say tier 4 takes that max to 200, tier 5 max becomes 500 and tier 6 metro the max is 900? We literally have no info on this so cut me a great deal of slack.
On top of those numbers the mayor may select to build 1 or even more than 1 extra apartment building which could double or triple the numbers I gave above.
Here's another rough guess, if someone looks at the world map and does the math and work to references all the ZOIs and how they overlap and how since one nodes prevents neighboring nodes from leveling up, that out of 102 possible nodes only X number can ever develop to tier 3, then please do and save me here. But otherwise i'm SWAG'ing it and saying 50 nodes can reach tier 3 or higher. God help me, I know that's a SWAG.
So since a Metro may have 96 in node homes, and a minimum of 900 apartments (or maybe 1,800 apartments if the mayor picks to build more apartments!) we have to guess at an average number of apartments when all nodes are averaged together. Again have mercy on me as I SWAG that average to be 500 apartments.
So 50 nodes, each with 96 in node homes and 500 apartments = Server wide, assuming barely any mayors pick to build additional apts. = 4,800 in-node houses + 25,000 apartments = 29,800 possible types of homes on a server with only 50,000 accounts max.
That's 29,800 homes and it's making the unrealistic assumption that none of the mayors build extra apartment buildings. If we assume most nodes will build 1 extra apartment building then instead of 29,800 possible homes per server it could easily become 50,000 types of in-node homes/apartments per server.
Keep in mind that's 50,000 accounts but I bet thousands of those will never need a home because they will be a 2nd or 3rd account one player owns for alts and they just share homes between the accounts rather then buying 3 homes for 3 accounts. And then there will be people who one is hardcore and the other is super casual so the casual just shares a home with their friend/significant other.
A counter balance though will be that many hardcore players will be able to afford multiple homes. So maybe with 50,000 active accounts you end up with a need for 100,000 homes.
But I believe the final gap is bridged with Freeholds, which in a world with land (excluding water) being 218 km2 above ground land and 100 km2 underrealm, only some of it can have freeholds built on it, as it cannot interfere with node development, roads, dungeons etc, and half of the map is water. But let's assume of that 318 km2 available space half can have freeholds on it, which reduces it to 159km2 and then let us half that half because Freeholds cannot be lined up side by side, a lot of empty space must be in between. So that gives us 79.5 km2 of actual Freehold plot land. Each freehold only being 1/2 an acre or 0.002 km2 in size, would mean the total number of Freeholds will be 79.5 km2 / 0.002 km2 = 39,750 Freeholds per server.
We end up with 39,750 Freehold, and between 29,800 to 50,000 In-Node Homes and Apartments for a combined total possible homes per server assuming that mayors don't completely max out all construction options on just building Apartments, to be 69,550 to 89,750 housing options combined. Plenty for a 50,000 max account server. Though once the game matures and servers have been around for 6+ months, many hardcore gamers will own 2 or 3 homes, and so housing will become short, but my numbers above assume the nodes do no or only 1 additional Apartment construction project. If a shortage ever occurred, mayors in some nodes will definitely build more apartments as the income those generate is too good to pass up.
@Zhab posed this question in a thread and it really got me wondering it myself. I always smiled all day long assuming "yes" as I sit on the back of my Snorse mount. But is that the truth really? Would it be a possible problem that on a server maxed out at 50,000 accounts that some people simply won't have a home anywhere to buy and thus never be able to be a citizen (because a requirement of citizenship is home ownership.)
Below is a mad man's attempt at math, or better defined as Some Wild A** Guesses / SWAG. Shout out to @Lex 's Wiki and @Jahlon 's Ashes101 website. as I pulled raw data about tier 3 nodes and world size from them, though they had nothing to do with the madness you are about to read below so don't blame them. Any details after tier 3 we just don't know so I guessed.
To the Ashes Devs if by random chance you read this, if my results are even close to right please blink once, if drastically off and thread should be perma deleted, please blink twice.
I think the greatest enabler are Apartments, even a tier 3 node has 50 apartments, and then each tier above, up through tier 6, automatically gets more in node houses and apartments, and on top of that a mayor may use limited land space to build yet more apartments.
Now this is where we have to start guessing, i'll start with in node houses since they will be the fewest. At tier 3 you get 8 in node homes. Let's assume tier 4 causes the max to be 24, tier 5 = 48, and tier 6 metro = 96.
Then Apartments, lets start by assuming the mayor builds no extra apartments, they only get the "Free" apartments that are added automatically regardless every time a node levels. So 50 initial apts at tier 3, lets say tier 4 takes that max to 200, tier 5 max becomes 500 and tier 6 metro the max is 900? We literally have no info on this so cut me a great deal of slack.
On top of those numbers the mayor may select to build 1 or even more than 1 extra apartment building which could double or triple the numbers I gave above.
Here's another rough guess, if someone looks at the world map and does the math and work to references all the ZOIs and how they overlap and how since one nodes prevents neighboring nodes from leveling up, that out of 102 possible nodes only X number can ever develop to tier 3, then please do and save me here. But otherwise i'm SWAG'ing it and saying 50 nodes can reach tier 3 or higher. God help me, I know that's a SWAG.
So since a Metro may have 96 in node homes, and a minimum of 900 apartments (or maybe 1,800 apartments if the mayor picks to build more apartments!) we have to guess at an average number of apartments when all nodes are averaged together. Again have mercy on me as I SWAG that average to be 500 apartments.
So 50 nodes, each with 96 in node homes and 500 apartments = Server wide, assuming barely any mayors pick to build additional apts. = 4,800 in-node houses + 25,000 apartments = 29,800 possible types of homes on a server with only 50,000 accounts max.
That's 29,800 homes and it's making the unrealistic assumption that none of the mayors build extra apartment buildings. If we assume most nodes will build 1 extra apartment building then instead of 29,800 possible homes per server it could easily become 50,000 types of in-node homes/apartments per server.
Keep in mind that's 50,000 accounts but I bet thousands of those will never need a home because they will be a 2nd or 3rd account one player owns for alts and they just share homes between the accounts rather then buying 3 homes for 3 accounts. And then there will be people who one is hardcore and the other is super casual so the casual just shares a home with their friend/significant other.
A counter balance though will be that many hardcore players will be able to afford multiple homes. So maybe with 50,000 active accounts you end up with a need for 100,000 homes.
But I believe the final gap is bridged with Freeholds, which in a world with land (excluding water) being 218 km2 above ground land and 100 km2 underrealm, only some of it can have freeholds built on it, as it cannot interfere with node development, roads, dungeons etc, and half of the map is water. But let's assume of that 318 km2 available space half can have freeholds on it, which reduces it to 159km2 and then let us half that half because Freeholds cannot be lined up side by side, a lot of empty space must be in between. So that gives us 79.5 km2 of actual Freehold plot land. Each freehold only being 1/2 an acre or 0.002 km2 in size, would mean the total number of Freeholds will be 79.5 km2 / 0.002 km2 = 39,750 Freeholds per server.
We end up with 39,750 Freehold, and between 29,800 to 50,000 In-Node Homes and Apartments for a combined total possible homes per server assuming that mayors don't completely max out all construction options on just building Apartments, to be 69,550 to 89,750 housing options combined. Plenty for a 50,000 max account server. Though once the game matures and servers have been around for 6+ months, many hardcore gamers will own 2 or 3 homes, and so housing will become short, but my numbers above assume the nodes do no or only 1 additional Apartment construction project. If a shortage ever occurred, mayors in some nodes will definitely build more apartments as the income those generate is too good to pass up.
5
Comments
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
But citizenship of a metropolis is still going to be a big premium and a status symbol.
I finally get to see the man behind the likes.
In short:"Service Guarantees Citizenship"
check out Starship Troopers if you would like to know more.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
I never can think of something that isn't said, so I like pretty much everything
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
1) The player sold the deed for a set price of their choosing.
2) You failed to keep your account active and it would go into decay mode, giving it 30 days to collapse. All items in the house that collapsed were available to anyone who was in the region and came across the ruins. Then you could place your house plot where theirs was.
3) you got lucky and found a random spot somewhere in the world that was in the middle of nowhere.
*You would always find people in their houses crafting or doing something. It made the game feel alive
I feel like it should be like that in AoC too, no everyone will want a house and not everyone will need one. if you can play anywhere then its not really anything special.
Final fantasy had housing they released 4 years ago, at first not everyone could get a house, but then they made it to where anyone could get a house. as nice as it was, it was different shards (load zones) and the residential areas were empty and void of people.
*This made the game feel dead.
Just like in real life, not everyone owns a house....
Personally i want to have my own freehold, i want to have my own piece of the world, there is enough other reasons out there to fight or move locations other then someone want my special spot xD
houses are severely limited. We also don't have any information on the mayors ability to build static in-node houses in the first place.
They can build apartments though.
If they do add eviction Mayors would need to be able to tell which land owners are inactive for the entire node regardless of guild.
Another thing Freeholds can act as Guild Houses. A player concept from ESO that gives plenty of players the ability to not care about their houses because they can get the same services in someone else's home without needing to dedicate time or materials.
In ESO the housing is unlimited, but quite expensive. Players can teleport to a friend or guildies house to get a free rider experience.
that is a good idea, but it should only be available to mayors on accounts that have been inactive for a while.
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
Nice I like the guild house idea, like a hostel where especially guilds that focus on being a casual friendly guild, part of their lore is that joining them gives you access to a free bed and lockable chest in our guild freehold and with that comes citizenship to a node, just need to have a cap on how many.
On the topic of cleaning out inactivate accounts who hold valuable housing, do you think that will take care of itself because this is a subscription based game? Most inactives will stop paying the $15/mo so after a month the house will fail to pay its weekly maintenance bill and become abandoned.
If I'm wrong please correct me with documentation.
You could have 5 characters playing on 5 different servers with an apartment each. But they are saying that they may restrict that to one per account regardless of server. Freeholds are already that way.
Having housing enables you to get citizenship but you don't actually have to. On the flip side if you don't have housing you just can't get citizenship. But they are thinking about implementing a citizenship ticket system if the housing thing doesn't handle citizenship acquisition the way they are hoping it will.
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_housing
Take a look at that wiki page. But beyond that all sources I could find matches what is written there. I heard that in the distant past you did indeed get citizenship first which then allowed you to buy housing. It is now reverse. Likewise, for all I know, there might have been a time where apartments were free and unlimited. Doesn't work that way according to current info available.
Apartment are definitively not free and they become increasingly expensive the more are sold and the more citizens there are. The language of the wiki at one specific point make it sounds like they are indeed limited. But if you combine what is written there with everything else that is written about apartments I think this is not the case. You start with 50 and that number increase as the node evolve. However the mayor can build additional apartment buildings beyond that. If mayor keep building apartments you keep getting new ones. So there are no 'hard" limits. However I would imagine you would eventually run out of empty plots to build new buildings. So I don't think they are unlimited.
Now location on the other hand is certainly something that should or could be contested. The best housing system so far imo has been SWG. It had great player built cities, guild halls all centralized into a town. It also allowed you to drop a house almost anywhere the player wanted.
I still remember dropping my house on Naboo, just south of Moenia out in the swamps. It felt so secluded and away from the hustle and bustle of the cities and towns.
I am pretty excited to see how it will work out in Ashes especially the Metropolis. Even though I'm not a big city dweller, I can't wait to see what those cities will look like even though if I have the option i'll be dropping a home far far away...
If I can offer any advice for housing it would be:
So given what I read; a free hold is an account based home that is exclusive to your character vs a Guild house correct?
no, they have stated that apartmets will only hold a certain amount of people, to prevent everyon from joining one node
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
I think you should also have the option to build a house inside a zone of influence outside of the city. Probably be expensive to do manually, but if you can do that then you should be able to. Probably should be cheaper to repair to compensate for no defense whatsoever though. The houses should be lower quality than the in city ones too. Unless it's part of a profession.
The long term reality is everyone should have a house. It might not be where you want it to be, but everyone should be able to get one of some sort. This does not need to be a reality early or mid game into the game's life cycle, but the end game goal should be so that people have houses and that it does not feel like a dead world.
U.S. East
Both are limited.
You get 1 Housing and 1 Freehold per account (last info i have)
Freeholds can not be placed next to each other. So we dont get he Archage housing where everyone places next to one another.
You can also not place Freeholds on places were something will spawn depending on node deverlopment.
For example:
You want to build a freehold on a place next to a river.
But the location is marked red. You cant build there.
The reason could be that if the node reaches level 5 a bridge is build there and your freehold would overlap with it. Or there could be a dungeon in the future.
The same goes for the city's. You can not place freeholds directly next to the wall. You have to give each node enough space to become a level 6 node.
The world is huge so we just have to wait and see.
On Topic:
Im sure there will be enough housing slots for everyone or at least a majority. But it may not be in the node you want to settle.
Each node as said has limited slots.
So you may be forced to get your house further away in another node.
Demand and supply
Demand should always be higher then supply or houses would be worthless