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Issue with Level 1 Nodes

Just a small one here.

I was thinking how cool it would be for me and my friends to try and claim a node on game release, before I realised how difficult it will be for us to ever make a home worth staying at. The reason for this is that the benefits that come along with the higher tier nodes instantly make them meta.

What reasons will there be for me to continue to contribute to my node, if my node is behind other nodes? e.g. even if my node is far away from the larger nodes, why should I stay to build it up? I would really love to be able to do this, but I fear that I'll be forced to spend my time in the main cities instead of being able to contribute to a node I'd rather spend time in.

Your thoughts and solutions would be appreciated :)

Comments

  • uaouao Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Possibly that problem would solve itself by the maximal amount of people that can become citizens of a node, if the neighbor village can have 200 citizens and its already maxed out in capacity, you would want to stay in your own village by default.
    Though some clustering will be guaranteed to happen, because it probably requires a big group effort to level and sustain a node of any relevant stage, something not possible with just a small group of few friends.
  • DemidreamerDemidreamer Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    There are 4 different node types: Divine, Economic, Military, and Scientific. People will have different agendas therefore will be searching for a node of their interest.

    I suggest to mull this over before release, https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Node_types
  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    derp wrote: »
    Just a small one here.

    I was thinking how cool it would be for me and my friends to try and claim a node on game release, before I realised how difficult it will be for us to ever make a home worth staying at. The reason for this is that the benefits that come along with the higher tier nodes instantly make them meta.

    What reasons will there be for me to continue to contribute to my node, if my node is behind other nodes? e.g. even if my node is far away from the larger nodes, why should I stay to build it up? I would really love to be able to do this, but I fear that I'll be forced to spend my time in the main cities instead of being able to contribute to a node I'd rather spend time in.

    Your thoughts and solutions would be appreciated :)

    The problem is you are thinking that you claim a Node. You don't.

    Nodes aren't individual or small group content, they are large group content. So, its not "your node" so much as "the node you live in"

    hpsmlCJ.jpg
    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    All I know is that I am going to try and convince my guild to begin in a starting area close to a snowy land and then immediately go to that snowy area to develop it at launch (there will be guild voting on major decisions like this). I plan on studying the map during Alpha 2.
  • derpderp Member
    edited August 2020
    Jahlon wrote: »
    derp wrote: »
    Just a small one here.

    I was thinking how cool it would be for me and my friends to try and claim a node on game release, before I realised how difficult it will be for us to ever make a home worth staying at. The reason for this is that the benefits that come along with the higher tier nodes instantly make them meta.

    What reasons will there be for me to continue to contribute to my node, if my node is behind other nodes? e.g. even if my node is far away from the larger nodes, why should I stay to build it up? I would really love to be able to do this, but I fear that I'll be forced to spend my time in the main cities instead of being able to contribute to a node I'd rather spend time in.

    Your thoughts and solutions would be appreciated :)

    The problem is you are thinking that you claim a Node. You don't.

    Nodes aren't individual or small group content, they are large group content. So, its not "your node" so much as "the node you live in"

    Yes I understand this. But I'm thinking in the terms that you might want to develop a node somewhere other than where the most developed nodes are for some reason or another. e.g. you may want to develop node near the ocean for some reason
  • derpderp Member
    KHRONUS wrote: »
    All I know is that I am going to try and convince my guild to begin in a starting area close to a snowy land and then immediately go to that snowy area to develop it at launch (there will be guild voting on major decisions like this). I plan on studying the map during Alpha 2.

    I'm very tempted to purchase the alpha 2 pass for me and my buddy but I don't know when launch of it is :O
  • CaerylCaeryl Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    If the location inconvenient for trade, and the typing aligns with what people want as far as amenities go (ex. an Economic node for traders), then why wouldn’t people show up to population it?

    The only barrier is if other people in the area want different neighboring nodes to reach metro, then your preferred node may end up as a vassal to that node. That’s intended design that not everyone get to live in a metro.
  • Slow down Derp. AoC is still in development. They are doing testing, and the game is unplayable, atm. Testing is no fun (assigned play areas, times, rollbacks, resets, bad connections, so many more, etc). Just sit back and absorb and dream.

    Back on topic.

    Firstly, you can only become a citizen at a stage 3 or higher node. So, no. You can't occupy a node 1.

    I hear you. I to want to live away from the Hussle and bustle from the metros. Perhaps set up a tavern, or kiosk, how about a shrine, off the beaten path.

    Now that I have that shrine. Perhaps those augments, offered by a church, sounds pretty tempting.

    Time to grow that node. Maybe I will become mayor or the mayor is thinking like me. Maybe we hate each other. Time for conflict.

    The scenerios are boundless. Wait and see.
  • Depends how far you are willing to run, what your strategy is, what the actual game system details are going to be, and where you want to live. What spawns in the area you want to live and if your professions even work there. What your class build will look like.

    Too many unknown variables to possibly have a semblance of an idea yet. Hence why my goals are extremely vague. Somewhere with snow and ice.
    zZJyoEK.gif

    U.S. East
  • MaezrielMaezriel Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    You very likely won't be the only one wanting to move away from the starter nodes.

    You'll develop slower, but there should also be less chance of an early siege and other similar events which could be very tempting for other players looking for a quieter experience.
    ZeFuP1X.png
    If I said something that you disagree w/ feel free to say so here.
  • ZhabZhab Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    This thread as inspired me. What if the prestige, glamour and NPC advantages was in civilization centers but the gold and adventures in the unexplored wilderness ? Metro have dominion over roughly 20% of the world. The epic raid connected to them need not happen 2 min walk from city gates. But instead into a far away node 0 (which is still under dominion of metro). Every XP gained over there would still funnel back to the metro. Any porsperity or tax money made in villages near there would still funnel back to the metro. If the boonies are effectively money making farms for the metro then the almighty metro has a vested interest into helping and supporting his vassals while at the same time providing a softer juicy target to damage an enemy metro. A siege scroll for a village is cheaper than a siege scroll for a metro. Siege immunity is also much shorter.

    I go more in depth with that idea in this thread.
    https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/46210/civilization-vs-wilderness-node-level-balancing
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    derp wrote: »
    Just a small one here.

    I was thinking how cool it would be for me and my friends to try and claim a node on game release, before I realised how difficult it will be for us to ever make a home worth staying at. The reason for this is that the benefits that come along with the higher tier nodes instantly make them meta.

    What reasons will there be for me to continue to contribute to my node, if my node is behind other nodes? e.g. even if my node is far away from the larger nodes, why should I stay to build it up? I would really love to be able to do this, but I fear that I'll be forced to spend my time in the main cities instead of being able to contribute to a node I'd rather spend time in.

    Your thoughts and solutions would be appreciated :)
    @derp

    Apart from what jahlon said.

    Name 5 of these benefits you are talking about.


    Apart from the fact that high tier nodes are:

    more likely to be sieged (which might lose you a lot of stuff and investments you made into the node), more likely to enjoy higher tax rates, more likely to deal with caravan robbers + other scoundrel, higher housing prices, more likely to be involved into nodes wars to the great displeasure of most of its citizen and to top it all off: the loss of all the alleged benefits upon being defeated in a siege

    Most advantages we know of are also given to the vassals of a metro. (Teleportation, Airships, Regional Market Houses and market overviews, access to the Bounty Hunter system...) Most disadvantages are not.

    Out of the of my mind, i can't even recall a single advantage, where they explicitly stated that they'll be metro exclusive.

    Feel free to enlighten me.
  • ShaladoorShaladoor Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @derp
    No one can force you to spend time in a higher level node if you don't want to. If the benefits of spending time in higher level nodes appeals to you, then go do it. Spend time in "your" node if you want to. Claim citizenship there, and have fun with your friends. If you're out in a node having fun with friends, then who cares if that node doesn't level up as fast as others? Have fun!

    @Warth

    I am also failing to find anything specific yet that can only be gained in/through a level 6 metropolis. Those types of specifics just may not yet exist. Mayors of level 6 nodes get a flying mount, but that's a benefit for only 1 person.

    This is the closest I could find.

    Adaptive content
    New points of interest (such as dungeons and world bosses) spawn as nodes develop.[58] This content adapts to the development of the zone it is in.[59]
    • Populations will change.[59]
    • Content difficulty will change.[59]
    • The content may be different altogether, depending on what is developed and how.[59]
    • Different types of antagonists with different story lines.[59]
    • Some dungeons will only be unlocked if nodes are developed to certain stages.[60]
    • Storyline objectives for players inside dungeons will depend on the story arc paths chosen through the node system.[60]
    • Drop tables in areas and dungeons will be tied into the progression of certain areas.[60]

    Greater concentrations of population also lend to bigger markets to sell goods, buy rare goods/recipes, group with other players for content, the largest player housing (mansions).
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    exactly @Shaladoor
    Shaladoor wrote: »
    Greater concentrations of population also lend to bigger markets to sell goods, buy rare goods/recipes, group with other players for content, the largest player housing (mansions).

    Obviously these will be of the central hubs of the economy and gameplay.
    The market places in a Stage 6 node can be used by everybody to buy and sell. The Node might profit through the tax system, but that's not an advantage to the single node citizen.
    Content that will open up, is also accessible to all, as most of it is open world.
    Mansion of course is an interesting perspective, but you need to get the open world house when the node is stage 3, as those will mostly be the ones developing into a mansion. If those players stuck with the node from the days it was stage 3, then they of course deserve the mansions.

    Don't get me wrong, there will probably be some Node 6 citizen exclusive advantages, otherwise nobody would choose to live there considering the disadvantages that come with it.
    However, right now? We don't know a single one of them. These threads about "The advantages of Stage 6 Citizenship" originate from nothing but how air looking for problems that might or might not even exist in the end, with nothing to go on but their own fantasy.

    If they were with the community for longer than a couple of weeks, then they would also know that these discussion have been had for 3 years by now, always concluding at the point, that

    A: Advantages of High Level Node Citizenships are by design, as they also carry most of the risk of losing it all or

    B: there isn't enough information to have any purposeful discussion on the topic.

    They have been so discussed so much, that most veterans don't even bother answering these threads anymore.
  • @derp One must always herp before they derp. Slow your roll young buck.
    😉
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    A benefit exclusive to scientific metropolis:

    Citizens of metropolis scientific nodes may teleport between the metropolis and any of its vassal nodes, regardless of the stage of the vassal node, so long as the vassal node is not at war.

    Citizens of vassal nodes may teleport to their metropolis node and back.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Scientific_nodes

    Teleporting to any vassal node is a direct benefit using the scientific superpower exclusive to citizens of the metropolis. I wouldn't rule out a lack of benefits for metropolis citizens yet.
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    A benefit exclusive to scientific metropolis:

    Citizens of metropolis scientific nodes may teleport between the metropolis and any of its vassal nodes, regardless of the stage of the vassal node, so long as the vassal node is not at war.

    Citizens of vassal nodes may teleport to their metropolis node and back.

    https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Scientific_nodes

    Teleporting to any vassal node is a direct benefit using the scientific superpower exclusive to citizens of the metropolis. I wouldn't rule out a lack of benefits for metropolis citizens yet.

    Well, why would a Stage 5 Node be allowed to teleport to another Stage 5 node that are both Vassals of the same Metropolis?

    They aren't related at all with each other. They might even be at war/rivalry with each other.
    You of course, can only teleport to the ones related to your node, everything else would be ridiculous.
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited August 2020
    @Warth
    The citizens of the metropolis will be able to teleport to both of the Stage 5 nodes in your example. However, citizens from one of those Stage 5 nodes will only be able move between the metropolis and their home node.

    The metropolis citizens get many more teleport locations than the citizens of the lower nodes in the influence of the metropolis. It is a direct benefit of living in a Scientific Metropolis over those that do not live in one.

    Aside from the above, I wasn't trying to justify why metropolis citizens receive an additional benefit. Instead I was directly responding to your request:
    "Out of the of my mind, i can't even recall a single advantage, where they explicitly stated that they'll be metro exclusive.

    Feel free to enlighten me."

    You have been enlightened. ;)
  • Half Tilt GamerHalf Tilt Gamer Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    derp wrote: »
    Jahlon wrote: »
    derp wrote: »
    Just a small one here.

    I was thinking how cool it would be for me and my friends to try and claim a node on game release, before I realised how difficult it will be for us to ever make a home worth staying at. The reason for this is that the benefits that come along with the higher tier nodes instantly make them meta.

    What reasons will there be for me to continue to contribute to my node, if my node is behind other nodes? e.g. even if my node is far away from the larger nodes, why should I stay to build it up? I would really love to be able to do this, but I fear that I'll be forced to spend my time in the main cities instead of being able to contribute to a node I'd rather spend time in.

    Your thoughts and solutions would be appreciated :)

    The problem is you are thinking that you claim a Node. You don't.

    Nodes aren't individual or small group content, they are large group content. So, its not "your node" so much as "the node you live in"

    Yes I understand this. But I'm thinking in the terms that you might want to develop a node somewhere other than where the most developed nodes are for some reason or another. e.g. you may want to develop node near the ocean for some reason

    If you want to build a remote node up and you don't have numbers to help, it will take a very long time. But that shouldn't prompt you to play where you don't want to play.
    You can travel if need be then come back but I don't think 'meta' will be a big thing node wise so just play how you want to play.
    "If you build it, they will come"
    Find me on Youtube and Twitch as Half Tilt Gamer!
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    My guess is that there will be a lot of nodes and you will find the perfect one for you if you are persistent enough.
     
    Hhak63P.png
  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    @Warth
    The citizens of the metropolis will be able to teleport to both of the Stage 5 nodes in your example. However, citizens from one of those Stage 5 nodes will only be able move between the metropolis and their home node.

    The metropolis citizens get many more teleport locations than the citizens of the lower nodes in the influence of the metropolis. It is a direct benefit of living in a Scientific Metropolis over those that do not live in one.

    Aside from the above, I wasn't trying to justify why metropolis citizens receive an additional benefit. Instead I was directly responding to your request:
    "Out of the of my mind, i can't even recall a single advantage, where they explicitly stated that they'll be metro exclusive.

    Feel free to enlighten me."

    You have been enlightened. ;)

    Thank you for that, i really wasn't aware of that one. So we finally have one.
    Good thing there is a whole list of disadvantages to balance it out.
  • afarafar Member, Pioneer, Kickstarter
    If strength/benefits/popularity was a deciding factor where to live, everyone probably would move to USA (or china)
  • derpderp Member
    I hope there are also random spawns of things in lower density nodes :O Either way, one thing's for certain... I'll be on the other side of the continent when you see me! :wink:
  • derpderp Member
    Warth wrote: »
    @Warth
    The citizens of the metropolis will be able to teleport to both of the Stage 5 nodes in your example. However, citizens from one of those Stage 5 nodes will only be able move between the metropolis and their home node.

    The metropolis citizens get many more teleport locations than the citizens of the lower nodes in the influence of the metropolis. It is a direct benefit of living in a Scientific Metropolis over those that do not live in one.

    Aside from the above, I wasn't trying to justify why metropolis citizens receive an additional benefit. Instead I was directly responding to your request:
    "Out of the of my mind, i can't even recall a single advantage, where they explicitly stated that they'll be metro exclusive.

    Feel free to enlighten me."

    You have been enlightened. ;)

    Thank you for that, i really wasn't aware of that one. So we finally have one.
    Good thing there is a whole list of disadvantages to balance it out.

    Also, cheer up dude
  • derpderp Member
    Bump. Any fresb thoughts on this topic?
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    derp wrote: »
    Bump. Any fresb thoughts on this topic?
    That is one hell of a necropost :|
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    I'm still thinking about a response. Maybe check back next year? ;)
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • derpderp Member
    NiKr wrote: »
    derp wrote: »
    Bump. Any fresb thoughts on this topic?
    That is one hell of a necropost :|

    I've legit had a child, bought a house and learned to drive since I made this post. Long live AOC forums.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    derp wrote: »
    I've legit had a child, bought a house and learned to drive since I made this post. Long live AOC forums.
    Congrats!
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Yay! Kids are wonderful. :)
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
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