Aftermath of Nodedestruction

Hey people, Concerning nodes i wonder what happens in the negative direction of development. We already know nodes can devolve in tiers through lack of activity and siege. Regarding that I have more or less two questions. If a node devolves through inactivity or siege: What will happen with the exessive buildings? Will they simply vanish or will they just become unusable? Crumbling down with fallen in walls or blocked doors. The extension of this is the total destruction of a node, I'm especially curious about that in regard to a metropolis. I assume that they are rather large and extensive. If some huge place like that ever got completly destroyed, will it have a lasting/extended time effect on the enviorment? I hope you can guess by now where I am going. Will a metropolis that gets completly razed leave behind a ruin that develops it's own content? A large outlaw/bandit group making those ruins it's base of operation, building simple defenses where the walls where breached or just deteriorated. Natur claming those ruins turning it into a nesting ground of particular nasty/ferocious animals and creatures. Ancient weapons rattled out of their slumber by the massive siege that happened, now awake and patroling the ruined city. To a lesser extend if a village or camp crumbles from inactivity maybe those ruins are roamed by scavangers who do not like to share "their" treasures. So yeah, what's your thoughts about it? Something you would like to see? Something we will get? ^^ Grisu aka. Zekece

Comments

  • IMO, degradation/destruction of buildings and nodes would be really cool to see in AoC and would add more depth to the world in general. After all, if you can build up a node, why not be able to tear one down as well? I also like the idea of being able to rebuild ruins or re-purpose them for something else (like a bandit hideout), or letting the ruins gradually become haunted by ghosts or spirits if no action is taken to re-civilize the node after a certain period of time.

    A very interesting thought @Grisu, and I'm curious to see how it's handled in AoC.
  • Destruction of nodes can be really cool. Like when there is an attack to it this is the players to defend it , or prepare the defence with Pve content too because we cannot be online all the time for sure. Also it could be cool that a guild or alliance can do raid to nodes to take control of it. (sorry for my english)
  • With the revamp of the forum, I thought it's a good time to nekro this back up for a review.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Ashes of Creation Kickstarter Livestream May 19, 2017  http://www.twitch.tv/videos/145224977  mark 28:04
  • @Dygz I'm at 37:00 now and they haven't touched on it yet. Freeholds have nothing to do with my question for the node itself. Appreciate the try tho.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Actually, they do have something to do with it. Freeholds are part of a city/node.
    We can extrapolate info to other buildings in the city.
    As will likely be confirmed in the future livestreams.

    I didn't post the link just for you.

  • as @Dygz said.
    Freeholds are user created.
    Many of the buildings that allow node services are node leader created.
    These building will be attacked by PvE monsters and cause issues for the node.
  • Still think it'd be awesome to have that degradation effect. Node builds up to a large metropolis, gets torn down via war/event/mass exodus and the town is just turned into rubble/ruins/reclaimed by nature.
    Give it another year, enough of a player base comes on(new players) to deal with whatever it was and to rebuild this node, they're now seeing the old shells and abandoned ruins of the playerbase of yesteryear. They get to explore and see what other players before them had built up in the region, only to be left by -insert reason here-
    Imagine being the dwarves in the Hobbit returning to your home city, you see what it was, what it had, and what it can be. You're walking through the ruins of a place where bustling life once was and you get to rebuild it now.

    Might be a bit much to ask for in an MMO, but would be amazing to see some form of this take place. 
  • I think the problem there is that we need the space to free up all the nodes that were absorbed by the expansion of the city. Otherwise, the narrative stalls in that area.

    Once a city is destroyed, players will either rebuild that node/city.
    Or they will build a town/city from a nearby node - and a new set of narratives will be generated.
  • Could be circumstancial, you dont necesserily got the next city right in the next neigbouring zoi, you probably are a few zois away and destroyed that city to advance your own. So I don't see to much of a problem there, and as said you could still make it circumstancial or even integrate it that you have to clear out that area to build a city close to it. I mean we might have worldbosses scorching the earth of a zoi "forever" and stuff like that sooooo, a ruin in the way doesn't sound like something extraordinarily out of place in the overall mechanics.

  • Destroying a city that far away doesn't advance your own city.

    A city is made up of many nodes. So, when you destroy a city, you either rebuild that node... or people will start advancing another node in that zone. If the nodes remained occupied by derelict buildings for a year... that would be a year of one static, stagnant narrative in that zone.

    You clear out the area by destroying the city.
    I suppose it's possible for the destruction of a node to unearth a ruin/dungeon somewhere in the zone.
    But, destroying a city is not going to turn it into a ruin that lasts for months.
    Rather, people will either rebuild a city at that node...or start advancing a nearby node...possibly turning that into a brand new city which will expand to encompass the node of the old city.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
     A city starts out at the nodeplacement  in a single Zoi and swallows up Zois and the possible nodepoint in it with it. As it progresses it's locking away larger structures in it's immidiate neigboring Zois since it makes no sense to have a city right next to your metropolis, but a City with Zois in between depending on the layout makes perfect sense again.
    We do not know the scale of the Zois in the ingame world, but we have an idea from the introduction video.
    You can interpolate that to the ruin just the same, with one addition:
    There would be a choice, clearing up that ruin since you need the spot again/the immediate surrounding ones or you pick a different one. It's licke you created a ressource spot there with birds for example that lay some special eggs, you can either wipe it all out again or just steal eggs from them.
    I wouldn't say it would lock that node away for a fixed period of time, just until the new nesting stuff in the ruins is dealt with, maybe you need to mine some of the stone off which you can use for the new node again. I don't see the problem with that.
    Since this is just a thought experiment for an in my opinion sweet addition, you could try to be a little more flexible instead of just saying no to everything, you know? It's to close, since it's not to close it's to far, how about you simply say you don't want it and move on or actually contribute a solution to the problems you present? Or present it as a problem to be solved instead of just barring the way.
  • If you provide a convincing vision, I will go along with it.

    A village starts out at the node placement and swallows up nodes as it expands its territory. A city will have several nodes. And a metropolis several more.

    It's not simply locking way larger structures. It's enveloping terrain and removing any foreign structures - though most likely "foreign structures" will have been already destroyed by a siege.
    There can't be any structures there because there as to be room for players to build the structures they want to build. So, the only buildings will be the ones built by that node and by the players who are citizens of that city/metropolis.

    I don't know what you mean by "a city with ZOIs in-between".

    The game cannot afford to just leave a ruin the size of a city or metropolis indefinitely.
    Either the players will want to start rebuilding whatever's left of the city at the location of the original node, or they will want to start building a brand new city at one of the zones that had previously been enveloped by the original node.

    If all that's left is a ruin that's going to stand indefinitely, those nodes that made up the city will be stagnant, rather than generating narratives and new content. Even though players are active in the region.
    So, it's highly unlikely that ruins will remain for more than a few hours at the end of a siege. If at all.

    It's not a matter of what I want. If it fits the game design, it fits the game design.
    If it doesn't fit the game design, it doesn't fit the game design.

    You asked, "If some huge place like that ever got completely destroyed, will it have a lasting/extended time effect on the environment?"
    My answer is that seems highly unlikely the way they've discussed siege's so far.

    Ashes of Creation Kickstarter Livestream May 19, 2017 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/145224977  mark 28:04
    STEVEN: If a siege is successful, you're going to see the zone that pertains to that node, after that successful siege, will go through a period of open combat. where these freeholds are susceptible to destruction and attack. And after that period is complete, which it could last an hour or two, we haven't determined that yet... but after it's complete, if your node still resides within a Stage 3 node or above's zone of influence,  it will be fine. If it does not, then it will be gone.

    Notice the use of the word "gone". That freehold will be gone if there is no longer a Stage 3 village there, because Stage 3 is earliest stage where housing and other buildings appear.
    If the freehold still resides within a Stage 3 node, it's fine. There will still be a village; not a ruins. Also notice that Steven didn't say, "If it does not, there will be a ruins."
    Because when the buildings associated with the city get destroyed, they will be gone.
    The node will de-level until there is no longer even a village.

    At Stage 2, what is left is a "camp". Not a ruins.
    At Stage 3 or above, there is enough of a village or a city or a metropolis to rebuild - either the defenders surrender and the attackers move in to take over the city and rebuild, or the defenders are able to start rebuilding.

    Ashes of Creation Kickstarter Livestream May 19, 2017
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/145224977  mark 34:52
    STEVEN: The player-run government is going to have sectored out zones within the node (city) that are unbuilt and that are going to require direction from the mayor and the government to determine what do we build here. Is it going to be an apartment complex? 
    Is it going to be a merchant house? Is it going to be a Thieves Guild? Is it going to be a market place? Is it going to be a barracks? There's a whole bunch of determining factors of what types of buildings are going to get constructed. And then, once that is determined, the citizens are going to have to come together through driving resources, through caravans and bringing them into the node and actually constructing that building through questing and stuff like that.
    And there could be regime changes. If somebody doesn't like the fact that a market was built, and they want to re-elect a new government the next cycle, they could do so. And that market could be destroyed and a new building replaced.

    Seems clear to me that "destroyed" does not mean "ruins". Rather "destroyed" means gone. Ready for rebuilding.
    That's my understanding of the design.
    You don't have to agree with me. I don't have to agree with you.

    We'll have to see, down the road, how accurate my understanding of the design is.

    peace
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    In the livestream of 30/5, they were asked if the underrealm was going to have a city, and the answer was much along the lines of 'no, the maths would be too complicated to add another' 

    Having said that, there's nothiing to say that if a city/node  reaches a certain level of 'destroyed' that all buildings in the town get deserted and turn to ruin, and another node gets spawned elsewhere. 

    I can't see the maths changing that much for that, AND it would give us our ruins   *glee*
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Um...No.... The question and answer was regarding total number of Metropolises in the world. The Underrealm can have a Metropolis as long as there aren't 5 already built.
    There is nothing to say that if a city reaches a certain level of "destroyed" that all buildings in the town get deserted and turn to ruin... other than the devs.

    I get the feeling that the gods are somehow related to the 5 number of Metropolises.



    Ashes of Creation Kickstarter Livestream May 30, 2017
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/148353805    mark 14:37
    QUESTION:  With the Underrealm now unlocked, will the total number of Metropolises in the world now be changed?

    JEFFREY:  As of right now, no.  There's a reason that we settled on the number of Metropolises we have, and that's just because it makes the math work out really well for how nodes interact and how the various different pieces work together.

    STEVEN:  And the number of Metropolises also relates to their Metropolis types and how the mechanics between those types work in a contained 5-slot scenario.
  • Interesting, I thought they said yes to under realm cities, I vaguely even remember them showing concept art of a city under ground...  not sure, I'll have to go watch again
  • I would like to see the potential for  additional nodes to propagate in an area should a predominate note be brought to distruction (or a lower tier), allowing for nomadic movement/shifts of population and competing cities in the same area.

    Too many small nodes nodes and a medium cannot propagate.

    Too larger node and smaller ones nodes cannot be brought into existence and/or become ghost towns waiting for destruction.

    A game leading to survival and growth to the most dominant, but potential to revert and change should player sentiment dictate.
  • Technically, it's the city/village/camp that gets destroyed; not the node itself.
    The devs tend to use node to refer to camp/village/town/city/metropolis.

    It's possible to rebuild a destroyed city.

    "Additional" nodes won't "propagate", but yes, neighboring nodes could then be focused on in nomadic fashion.
  • Dygz said:
    Um...No.... The question and answer was regarding total number of Metropolises in the world. The Underrealm can have a Metropolis as long as there aren't 5 already built.
    There is nothing to say that if a city reaches a certain level of "destroyed" that all buildings in the town get deserted and turn to ruin... other than the devs.

    I get the feeling that the gods are somehow related to the 5 number of Metropolises.



    Ashes of Creation Kickstarter Livestream May 30, 2017
    https://www.twitch.tv/videos/148353805    mark 14:37
    QUESTION:  With the Underrealm now unlocked, will the total number of Metropolises in the world now be changed?

    JEFFREY:  As of right now, no.  There's a reason that we settled on the number of Metropolises we have, and that's just because it makes the math work out really well for how nodes interact and how the various different pieces work together.

    STEVEN:  And the number of Metropolises also relates to their Metropolis types and how the mechanics between those types work in a contained 5-slot scenario.
    Um that's what I said. No city (metropolis) because of the maths ...
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    What you said is still wrong. Read the quotes again!! Please!

    1:  The Underrealm can have cities, regardless.
    A city is Stage 5 of a node. A metropolis is Stage 6.

    2:  The Underrealm can have a metropolis just like any other node in the game.
    But the total number of metropolises a server can have built is 5.
    That total has not increased to 6, simply because the Underrealm is now part of the game.

    3:  It's even possible, though unlikely for all 5 metropolises to be built in the Underrealm.

    4:  The only time it won't be possible to build a metropolis in the Underrealm is if all 5 metropolises have already been built on the surface.


  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    Ok I've finally got what mistake I've been making.

    Much love @Dygz for helping me to better understand this and sorry to being extra confusion to this thread.

  • @Megs
    We are all one!!!   <3
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    \_(ツ)_/¯
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    \_(ツ)_/¯
  • It would be great if say a metropolis falls, then say a couple of "in game" years later it becomes a questing zone, as fool hardy adventurers, explore the vast city for wealth and exotic arms and armour.  And as mentioned bandits/undead would roam the once great city.
  • We don't have the numbers uet on number of cities/villages, but it seems like the power difference between one level and another is. ot insurmountable, which is good for border towns that might make themselves  more painful than it is worth to take.
  • ArchivedUserArchivedUser Guest
    edited June 2017
    We don't have the numbers yet on number of cities/villages, but it seems like the power difference between one level and another is. ot insurmountable, which is good for border towns that might make themselves  more painful than it is worth to take.
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