The flow of goods - economy discussion

Yoanna

Economy shall and will play a huge part in Ashes of Creation. I am trying to sort what we know about trading so far and I would like you, fellow hype-train-passengers, to point out holes in this and give some feedback if you see the same problems as I do.

Here is what I know so far:

• Resources will be gatherable only in certain areas meaning that we will see more or less common materials depending on
  different locations. This opens up huge trading possibilities.
• Intrepid is aiming for localized markets further increasing local item rarity
• The way to bring resources from point A to point B will mainly be by caravan.
• Caravans will be delivering their goods to the local storehouse.
• Players will be able to sell wares in:
  • Personal shops (you need to be online, the trade will be handled by NPC, I think)
  • Personal stalls (available offline, trade handled by NPC; but you need to be citizen of an eco node to have a stall in the local market)
  • Auction house (direct listing, available offline)
• Players will be able to buy wares in the above mentioned stores but need to be physically there to buy them.
• Travel is supposed to be long.

With this system in place, it means that

• It will not be possible to harvest resources a plenty in one area and send them to another node to be sold there without travelling with the goods and selling them via trade chat.
• It will not be possible to buy needed resources remotely anywhere beside an economic metropolis.
• The only way to make a decent cut trading would be to travel to an eco node somewhere in the vicinity of a resource that is less scarce than where you are located, buy some there and then travel back to your ‘home’ with the caravan.

In my opinion life as a trader will not be possible in this system because it is so difficult to sell wares outside of your ‘home’. You basically end up moving about with your goods anytime, be it buying or selling. There will not be a flow of resources or processed goods independent of the player harvesting/producing those.

What I would like to see is

• add storefronts to the local warehouses where you can post your wares for sale with a (moderate) cut of the profit as tax for the local node so that it is not necessary for someone to be present physically. You would still carry the risk of transport via caravan, but I as a trader would be more willing to take this risk if I have the chance to sell my wares reliably.
• it should be possible to put buy orders in somehow to let other people know what is needed.
• let someone else sell your wares probably via some kind of certificate system allowing player B to sell player A's goods

I would really like to know what you guys think about it. Take care!

Jubilum

I am hoping the economy will be a big part of the game for me. But, I'm feeling that from what we know so far there is going to be alot of obstacles to being a trading mogul. Maybe at a local level, but the local population will not be able to support trading as a full time career. Or maybe a trading guild, dedicated to just researching markets, moving goods, and monitoring transactions.

Acarith

I'm imagining several scenarios playing out, and while they're all interesting, they look problematic for anyone trying to get a first day blitz in trading.

Some times when an MMO first drops items have value not based on rarity, but lack of player knowledge and gleam.
Someone who wants to start with the caravan system right away would find themselves taking risks and disadvantaged. I'm not sure how regional resource rarity is designed. The nodes are diverse with special seasons in some nodes so it's not surprising they'd have special resources in the nodes.
Even if this is a true general concept, a day one trader would be taking on additional what if risks. Say they load up on Timber Nackle, an abundant resource in their node that sells for very low in their area. They see that Nubidium is rare and seen it was available in abundance on the other side of the continent. So not only have they spent their first day grinding a resource that's worthless in their area, but they must also now pay for and escort a caravan to somewhere it has value. All of this puts them at a level disadvantage because while they were doing all this managerial labor in hopes of trading, someone else was leveling. They want to get to the other side of the map. It would be fun and smart of them to make multiple trade stops, but this would require they buy multiple caravans, unless we could sell directly out of a caravan. So buy the time they get to where they want to go you have this low level with a caravan, selling these super pricey items from across the map you could just rob. They're not looking to contribute those resources to your node for free, and you could use them yourself. Say you don't rob them and this person who put all this time money and effort in makes it to the land overflowing with Nubidium. Timber Nackle sells for more than it did were they started, but after paying for so many caravans they find out Timber Nackle is only so rare in this land of Nubidium. The exchange turns out to be around 2 to 1. They still can make a profit so they turn around back buy more caravans and the price of their goods must go up. Now they are at a disadvantage to one way traders, who brought more Nubidium for the price of the one way trip. So they get back and discover their home node has ample amounts of Nubidium. Not because of an extreme number of traders, but because a vein of Nubidium was discovered two nodes northeast of town.

One theoretical question is it absolute that a resource will be only available on the other side of the map? Or is it more likely that it will be designed for different rarities in different regions? Leaving some trade trips to not be worth the time.

One thing we can access to figure it out a bit more is the progression of a racial crafting from their racial gates. If the crafting system is designed so weapons of a race specializing in say magic start in area abundant with the materials for a low level staff, they would still need the material for the other classes and their weapon types that may be a bit rarer. It would mean every race would need there own style of low level weapons in order for resources to be spread across the map. Or every region would need a certain amount of the same resources. The latter would make trade trips not as worth it.

Warth

You have a couple of misconceptions in your List. Let me correct those for you. Please refer to the wiki for the sources (or sometimes i state them if i know them at the top of my head)

• The spawn points of resources can move over time.
• Personal Shops can only be put up in a economic node.
• Personal Stalls exist in all the node types. Non-Eco Nodes have to build a certain mayoral building to get them though, while Eco-Nodes have them in their Eco-Specific Building. (July 8th Interview with Steven and Jahlon)
• They have to be present to buy in general. Only exception is the Economic Superpower, that allows players to play from both the Vassal Nodes and the Lord Nodes. (They still have to go and pick them up from the Node they have been listed in though, they will be deposited for you to pick up).

1. It will not be possible to harvest resources a plenty in one area and send them to another node to be sold there without travelling with the goods and selling them via trade chat.
2. It will not be possible to buy needed resources remotely anywhere beside an economic metropolis.
3. The only way to make a decent cut trading would be to travel to an eco node somewhere in the vicinity of a resource that is less scarce than where you are located, buy some there and then travel back to your ‘home’ with the caravan.

1. From the current point of information: Yes, selling them when arriving with your caravan in a foreign node is a hassle. You can't utilize the Stalls and Shops there. Which leaves the Auction House, Trade Chat and purchase orders (if they exist, not sure yet). Many of us believe this to be rather unfortunate, as it disincentives transporting goods to any other than your own. We will see, if we lack some critical information here or if that's just an unintended byproduct of the current systems by Reddit. I suspect, that this will be addressed at some point in the future, as it doesn't seem to coincide with the goals of the game. Some community suggestions to fix it would include the possibility to put up a temporary Stall/Shop with your Caravan (solely for goods your transported to the node recently). Much like a moving Trader with a Cart would.

2. The second one isn't correct, as stalls also exist in the other node types unless the mayor is a re**rd. There also is the auction house.

3. Same as the 2nd.

Kneczhevo

I was under the impression, stalls we're only in economic nodes. Hmmm

Hurf Derfman

Whatever happens I think bad weather should impede caravan speed.

Mud, snow, dust storms ect.

Since science nodes can teleport, economic linked markets, and religious nodes collect tithes and extort kingdoms by threatening religious wars (probably. I might have made that last one up.)
Military nodes should provide the best roads.