Visual Effects and a Rant

Rhaelah

I watched the recent AoC stream and just had my hopes sink after hearing the most recent AMA which rekindled my hopes for MMOs.

That being said, any one else disappointed at the over-exaggerated spell effects? When you have a whole slew of people on your screen, these spell/ability effects will get to the point where I wont be able to see what the heck is going on. Or the fact that one swing of the sword hits as many enemies as you want as long as they are bunched up? Like come on. Can we get a game where I feel like an adventurer and not a Captain America where his shield takes out 5 guys in one swing? It's NOT a superhero game. Im NOT the chosen one. It's fantasy, medieval to small degree. At least make it somewhat realistic/believable. The world should be dangerous, I shouldnt be taking on 4-15 enemies at once.

I'll give them that their mini-map is vague, which is good. However, I would argue for no mini-map or map at all. Does no one understand how to make games anymore??? Please, someone reassure me im not the only one who feels this way.

ZeekMystic

Steven has said in past streams that these effects are temporary and will be toned down I believe it was in the 90 minutes of game play video but I’m uncertain which one it was for sure. Additionally this is still in the early development stage and needs refining, the alpha feedback will play a big role in that.

Additionally the could have the option to turn of effects for non-party members like ff14 does

In other words it’s still early in development so don’t lose hope just yet

Potato Basket

I understand where you're coming from but at the same time I'd suggest not to judge harshly yet

We have to play it first to know how it feels
What if it's very fun? Would you care about realism as much?

ZeekMystic

As for the arcs of swings I don’t have a problem with this if I swing my sword in an arc I’m gonna hit multiple people, additionally they’ve said their will be model collision so you won’t line em up to hit high numbers at once with it.
On the other hand it sounds like a game where you’re gonna be doing some grinding to level, the arcs will help alleviate some of that.

And lastly I disagree with you on the mini map and map in general thing, it’d it didn’t have one that would be terrible the game is too big and dungeons and points of interest are in the open world. It would absolutely suck if you had no reference point to find theses

Gruntag

Rhaelah wrote: »

I watched the recent AoC stream and just had my hopes sink after hearing the most recent AMA which rekindled my hopes for MMOs.

That being said, any one else disappointed at the over-exaggerated spell effects? When you have a whole slew of people on your screen, these spell/ability effects will get to the point where I wont be able to see what the heck is going on. Or the fact that one swing of the sword hits as many enemies as you want as long as they are bunched up? Like come on. Can we get a game where I feel like an adventurer and not a Captain America where his shield takes out 5 guys in one swing? It's NOT a superhero game. Im NOT the chosen one. It's fantasy, medieval to small degree. At least make it somewhat realistic/believable. The world should be dangerous, I shouldnt be taking on 4-15 enemies at once.

I'll give them that their mini-map is vague, which is good. However, I would argue for no mini-map or map at all. Does no one understand how to make games anymore??? Please, someone reassure me im not the only one who feels this way.

No, the sky is not falling. We are pre alpha 1; there are many placeholder graphics right now. Relax and know that things will continue to improve as we go through the alpha phases.

Kneczhevo

All good points and I share your concerns. Game breaking, for me? Not really.

Imagine the fireworks during a seige. Oh the pixilizations! Hope I have enough memory.

Sangramoire

You have to remember that this is a game. I don't agree that I should never be able to kill 4-10 mobs at the same time. There's progression in the game and there's no scaling. If there's a group of mobs that are level 20 and you're level 15 guess what, you might not even be able to handle one alone, at least not without trying really hard. But if I'm level 10 and the mobs are level 1, like Steven was in the stream, I should definitely be able to handle a few of them at the same time.

In regards to the particle effects, it's been stated before that there will be a way to adjust the intensity of particle effects so that you can clearly see what's going on but for now they showcase it to the max so people can see what they look like maxed and then they can tune it down from there.

As for the mini-map, I don't agree that there should not be any mini-map or map at all. I also think that having a mini-map or map can somewhat take away from a game. What I mean by that is not that it will literally take away content but rather it takes away from the opportunity of having the mini-map being part of the content.

I think a good idea would be to start people off with basically no map at all but as they do their first quest or something they get a map that will fill in as they explore and as the land changes, in order for the map to change for them they must visit those places. It'd be good to have a general map available at all time though where it doesn't show any detailed information, kinda as if the world was empty.

The mini-map thing is just an idea but I don't think many people would care much how they handle their map.

Kneczhevo

Mini map radars make me feel dirty. I feel like I am cheating, but they are so nice.

@Sangramoire

There is a fog of war. You only see where you've been, on the big map. This encourages exploring, and possibly cartography.

Rhaelah

Wow, a lot of quick replies and all of them great. I was scared I was going to strike a nerve.

I just feel as if this is the closest MMO in YEARS to come close to what needs to be done, and it might fall to some unfortunate end due to small bad decisions that pile up. Whether that be it being too flashy, giving away too much information to the player via UI, huge 3rd person cameras, maps, player:mob difficulty ratios, etc. Its not easy to get all those right, but it is easy to get them fundamentally correct.

Kneczhevo

That's why we are excited, especially the old skoolers. Intrepid is making a game, not a product (we hope). Steven has been playing these games for years, probably since their inception (he is old), like me. He knows (as a player) what "we" want, he's been there and done that. That's why all the Fanbois. If AoC fails, the game sucked. Chaulk another vaporware game, and he's out his ducats, and those who bought preorder cosmetics.

Edit: have faith.

Inixia

As others have mentioned I think a lot of times mmo's have options to tone down particle effects from other players, for use in like, raids and stuff (I hope that's the case here). That might help while still being able to keep the effects individually impressive. Pvp though you can't always really use it as much bc those spells can give certain tells you need to react to (but sometimes it will give you a low res version of the key effect).

Campfire_Goth

The game is very much still in development and until I play it for myself, either in alpha or beta form; I don't feel comfortable being in a position to pass any sort of final verdict.

And from what I can tell so far is that the development team is doing a wonderful job keeping in touch with the community and being very transparent about the interaction.

So I have my hopes, fears and reservations but ultimately I'm still a card-carrying member of the Ashes of Creation hype train.

George_Black

I agree, they clutter the screen. Hope it will be easy to implement the /tonedown function.

Talents

I understand not having visuals be too flashy, but I do hope there is some way to turn them up or down.

One of the worst thing about some MMOs is that the spells don't feel powerful, largely due to the fact that there is no visual effects to back the spells up. WoW is a prime example of this, my Mage never feels powerful because spells feel incredibly lackluster.

I disagree with the minimap point. I understand not having too much information on them, but I feel like they're a vital part to MMORPGs, at least for me.

Also, in the lore we technically are heroes/champions. We're basically the champions and heroes of our former world, Sanctus, who have come through the portals in order to take back Verra which we were driven out of thousands of years ago.

CaptnChuck

@Rhaelah

I enjoy seeing more spell effects. However, you will be able to tone it down so just do it in the settings and boom, problem solved. I don't know why this is something that you're disappointed over.

Hurf Derfman

The environment looks crisp, and that turtle mount was pretty awesome.

I think they are trying to make the abilities look cool but have an obvious tell for pvp.

Doesn't help most the footage they've shown is two clerics and a tank. That's a lotta gold.

That turtle mount tho...
I think we're going to be ok.

Marcet

Im 100% with you, effects are way too much.

And the AOE with every atack is terrible... I like to target a single mob.

Action combat is ugh.......

Atiqa

I don't want to sound like a dick, but there are a little too many posts like this now.

Steven and the team has gone out of their way to explain over and over that all animations are just the first pass, and they will be improved, as well as toned down.

I feel like there are a lot of people who hasn't fully realized that the game hasn't even gone into alpha yet. Most people are comparing to finished games or when the games were in beta phases.

Beta is very far away, and most developers don't show this much so early on.

palabana

I like the spell effects. It shows us what they're capable of even at this very early stage and that is making beautiful stuff. Apart from that, it also shows that if the game can run smoothly with so many particle effects running even during this pre-alpha stage of development, it shows that they're capable of making the game beautiful but still perform very well. Obviously it's still early to judge the optimisation part of the game but you know what I mean. Plus, they've already said they will provide us with settings to tone them down.

Compare this to Crowfall where it's very low fidelity visually, yet the game struggles to run above 40 FPS.

LukeNukem

Dunno if anyone has said something like this before but I thought it may be cool to tone down the effects for spells, BUT! have a more "flashy" effect for say crits? or just big crits. I dunno you can work out the details. but I like the idea of having visual feedback for huge damage!

Say your just in a raid and one of ya boys lands a huge fireball, would it not be awesome if you could see that coming like "damn this dude gonna die!"

Just noticed people are taking the spell flashys thing kinda serious. I honestly don't care much either way. just wanted somewhere to post my idea.

TheLegend27

The game is barely in Alpha 1. Let's wait for them to take feedback and dev at a good pace

Rhaelah

Alright, you guys have quelled my disappointment for the moment. It's just that sometimes it feels like they're making 2 different games and I can never tell which one will come out on top. Is an action game or tab target? Is it first person or third? Is it flashy or more realistic? Is it difficult or am I another hero?

They seem to think that they can create an experience where any player can play how they want. However, that creates a disadvantage to those who will want to play tab target, be in first person, have toned down spell effects, or not use a map/minimap. When I listen to what they say and watch their videos I cant help but see it flip flop every so often. It reminds me about the discussion of damage meters, but for some reason people think damage meters are more important than these key features.

BobzUrUncle

Please note that this is a very early iteration on animation and effects. This will get better over time. Or, if not, we will get used to it...

Sangramoire

@Kneczhevo

Kneczhevo wrote: »

There is a fog of war. You only see where you've been, on the big map. This encourages exploring, and possibly cartography.

That's something I didn't know and I think that's an awesome feature as I like that feeling of exploration and discovering new things and possibly having knowledge that others don't simply because they haven't explored as much.

Damokles

"I'll give them that their mini-map is vague, which is good. However, I would argue for no mini-map or map at all. Does no one understand how to make games anymore??? Please, someone reassure me im not the only one who feels this way."

I would bet that YOU dont know how to make games either...
The minimap is still in works and will be more like a standard minimap i believe.

I also stand behind the idea that maps should be something to equip. A Scribe (One of the professions in game) would be able to produce consumable map upgrades for the territory thats surrounding the node, while also making special upgrades that show where certain mineral deposits spawn etc.

A player would start out with a very roughly scetched map of their surroundings (rivers, mountains etc) and could then use these upgradepacks to improve their map.

Rhaelah

Damokles wrote: »

I would bet that YOU dont know how to make games either...

This.. lol. This is such a horrible argument. I'd be willing to bet that both of us have played games/mmos enough to understand them enough to give critical thinking on them. It's not rocket science.

Damokles wrote: »

The minimap is still in works and will be more like a standard minimap i believe.

I hope to god it doesnt become a standard minimap. Those give away WAY too much free information to the player in-game all the time. It's a crutch that was forced upon us.

Damokles wrote: »

I also stand behind the idea that maps should be something to equip. A Scribe (One of the professions in game) would be able to produce consumable map upgrades for the territory thats surrounding the node, while also making special upgrades that show where certain mineral deposits spawn etc.

A player would start out with a very roughly scetched map of their surroundings (rivers, mountains etc) and could then use these upgradepacks to improve their map.

I agree with most of this, the only thing I disagree with is being able to upgrade. More free information to the player is more detrimental to the player.

Damokles

Rhaelah wrote: »

I agree with most of this, the only thing I disagree with is being able to upgrade. More free information to the player is more detrimental to the player.

its not free information. A player had to create it first and then sells it to you. The upgraded map will also not show everything, only the most important roads, level range of adds in a region, and already opened dungeon entrances etc.

Merek

I dislike the exaggerated effects, not only the visuals but the sounds were lacking. But I'm optimistically waiting for their updates to these.

Rhaelah

Damokles wrote: »

its not free information. A player had to create it first and then sells it to you. The upgraded map will also not show everything, only the most important roads, level range of adds in a region, and already opened dungeon entrances etc.

Not free as in it took no work to map the map, but free as in when I have the map I can always look at it and get information for free and quickly. I would argue the only thing a map/minimap should should are major roads/landmarks. Everything else should be memorized or I would compromise with upgrades to maps for only dungeon entraces or something else maybe. Knowing the level range of mobs is not a great idea at all, imo. I want a stylish map thats not covered in icons and colored areas, that goes for the minimap too.

In fact, if I could have it my way I would only have a direction compass. I might make a post on this.