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Visual Progression

Potato BasketPotato Basket Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited September 2020 in General Discussion
I think cosmetics should be applied as individual items and not as complete sets

So that you'll need to get the necessary piece of armor in game and then get to apply the skin, not just any armor piece but the specific piece to desired skin

To complete the full skinned set you'll have to get all of the specific armor pieces of that set

If this means that not every armor can get a skin, so be it

The way I understand how it works now is you just get whatever armor and apply the entire skin set

so right of the bat a player with beginner armor can apply a set skin and look cool

0 visual progression

Comments

  • NelsonRebelNelsonRebel Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ok thats your opinion.


  • Potato BasketPotato Basket Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Ok thats your opinion.


    And the sky is blue, what's you point?
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I understand and agree with your opinion, but I don't think that it would be realistic to expect any change with cosmetics.

    If you buy/use a skin you will lose out on visual progression. It is the nature of having cosmetics in the business model. The only realistic thing that you can do to have visual progression is to not buy skins in the cash shop.

    I have not gotten the feeling in a while that people in general don't care about visual progression as much as they care about being able to play dress up. I have argued many times that I don't want any cosmetics in games, or I at least want the option to disable peoples cosmetics so that I only see the gear they are actually wearing.

    Unfortunately everyone wants to cry that their "Artistic Vision" for their character would be smothered by my toxic opinion if a game were to do things my way. Maybe it is for the better. I have found myself going against my own opinion and using cosmetics when games choose to make obnoxiously awful tier sets.

    The good news so far is that the leveling sets I have seen look like they have a visual progression to them so far.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • Potato BasketPotato Basket Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    I have argued many times that I don't want any cosmetics in games, or I at least want the option to disable peoples cosmetics so that I only see the gear they are actually wearing.

    The good news so far is that the leveling sets I have seen look like they have a visual progression to them so far.

    Agree, as long as I can turn off other players cosmetics I'm fine with that
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    ninfosho wrote: »
    Agree, as long as I can turn off other players cosmetics I'm fine with that

    Well I did lose that argument sadly. The only time other players cosmetics will allowed to be turned off is when a large amount of players are in one place.

    People want to talk about their freedom of expression as their main argument against people disabling cosmetics. I can't wait until AR develops to the point that I can put on some glasses and make everyone look like what ever I want. If these people think their freedom of expression is under attack in a MMO. I can't wait to hear their cry's with the anime girl AR filter apples to everyone in the world. XD
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • TimeraiderTimeraider Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ninfosho wrote: »
    I have argued many times that I don't want any cosmetics in games, or I at least want the option to disable peoples cosmetics so that I only see the gear they are actually wearing.

    The good news so far is that the leveling sets I have seen look like they have a visual progression to them so far.

    Agree, as long as I can turn off other players cosmetics I'm fine with that

    If they add that, they will go against stuff they said less than a month ago.
    As mentioned in one of their dev blogs...
    Player cosmetics will only be surpressed in 1 scenario... when its needed to keep the performance acceptable when a specific area is being highly populated (whether for PvP or PvE reasons)
    Cosmetics lose any and all value if people can just permanently turn them off, so I really doubt they will implement a full option like that.

    I myself to be honest don't mind it much.

    I havent looked fully into the way of applying skins yet, but judging by the first post .. you can get 1 piece of a set (for example a chest) and then apply the skin belonging to that chest to all pieces of your gear? (So helmet, boots etc. to?). Its a bit unclear in your explanation.
    If thats the case, they imo should change it to the GW2 system. You get a chest, you have the chest's skin and can only apply that to a chestpiece (maybe even limited to the same armor-type (cloth/leather/plate etc.).. nothing more, nothing less.
    SoulfulDisastrousIrukandjijellyfish-small.gif
    A being can not judge light if he has never seen it, neither can he judge darkness if he never has been it
  • Balrog21Balrog21 Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I dont mind the cash shop as long as it doesn't get silly.
    I will be sadly disappointed if I see a sailor moon toon out there killing mobs or a bare chested surfer wannabe killing mobs.
  • DreohDreoh Member
    edited September 2020
    Balrog21 wrote: »
    I dont mind the cash shop as long as it doesn't get silly.
    I will be sadly disappointed if I see a sailor moon toon out there killing mobs or a bare chested surfer wannabe killing mobs.

    I agree. I do think the cosmetics they've shown so far are pretty over the top already, but as long as they don't go any further it's ok. But I doubt they're going to be able to resist going down that hole in the long run.

    Also, allowing the option to disable other peoples cosmetics goes directly against the concept of the cosmetic shop. It's not good business sense to give people the option to diminish the value of the items you're selling. Though I do wish there was no cosmetic shop.
  • TimeraiderTimeraider Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    edited September 2020
    Balrog21 wrote: »
    I dont mind the cash shop as long as it doesn't get silly.
    I will be sadly disappointed if I see a sailor moon toon out there killing mobs or a bare chested surfer wannabe killing mobs.

    Think everyone agrees with this yeah. Cosmetics should always be limited to fit within the game.
    Adding gold plating or an additional vfx is one thing.... being able to put on a full latex suit, ballgag and whip is another ;D
    SoulfulDisastrousIrukandjijellyfish-small.gif
    A being can not judge light if he has never seen it, neither can he judge darkness if he never has been it
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    I actually disagree with you @ninfosho

    Allowing cosmetic items to be applied to individual items provides a high level of customization to players that spend a lot of money in the cash shop. This will, in a way, be p2w.

    However, if its a one piece cosmetic skin that cannot be mix and matched, then that level of customization doesn't exist. Sure you would look cool, but a player that matches different pieces of gear to create a cool set, will look better.
  • Potato BasketPotato Basket Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    @CaptnChuck @Timeraider @Balrog21 @Dreoh @Vhaeyne
    Timeraider wrote: »
    ninfosho wrote: »
    I have argued many times that I don't want any cosmetics in games, or I at least want the option to disable peoples cosmetics so that I only see the gear they are actually wearing.

    The good news so far is that the leveling sets I have seen look like they have a visual progression to them so far.

    Agree, as long as I can turn off other players cosmetics I'm fine with that

    I havent looked fully into the way of applying skins yet, but judging by the first post .. you can get 1 piece of a set (for example a chest) and then apply the skin belonging to that chest to all pieces of your gear? (So helmet, boots etc. to?). Its a bit unclear in your explanation.
    If thats the case, they imo should change it to the GW2 system. You get a chest, you have the chest's skin and can only apply that to a chestpiece (maybe even limited to the same armor-type (cloth/leather/plate etc.).. nothing more, nothing less.

    So they way I understand, with character skins there's no restrictions at all

    You just buy the skin and get to apply it right away

    My argument is to make some sort of barrier of exclusivity just like they do with the rest of the skins

    mounts, freeholds, pets require you to first obtain a mount, build a freehold, get a pet and only then apply the skin and even that's not enough imo

    It's different with character skins because your character is a given, you cannot obtain it

    My point is why bound skins to character and not armor that you will first need to obtain

    Just like you've suggested, make it depend on the tier, rarity or type to represent your progression

    What would be the visual difference between an end game player and a fresh one if they look the same?

    What would feel special about seeing on day one everyone around you wear the same skin?

    Maybe that's the price we have to pay for no p2w cash shop
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    @ninfosho

    I believe that cosmetics are one piece stuff, except those offered separately like the belt and the spell-breakers gauntlet.

    And each cosmetic can only be applied to the same tier of gear. So tier 2 cosmetics can be applied to all tier 2 mounts.
  • Potato BasketPotato Basket Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @ninfosho

    I believe that cosmetics are one piece stuff, except those offered separately like the belt and the spell-breakers gauntlet.

    Exactly, so I suggested to brake the one-piece sets to individual set items, skins that apply only to that set type, rarity or tier

    Anything that will maintain the integrity of your visual progression

    For example, common, rare, unique, and legendary skins
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    ninfosho wrote: »
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    @ninfosho

    I believe that cosmetics are one piece stuff, except those offered separately like the belt and the spell-breakers gauntlet.

    Exactly, so I suggested to brake the one-piece sets to individual set items, skins that apply only to that set type, rarity or tier

    Anything that will maintain the integrity of your visual progression

    For example, common, rare, unique, and legendary skins

    No way man.....that would give waaaay too much customization to players that spend money on the cash shop. If they only get a one piece set, then that's great as it doesn't allow mix and matching between different cosmetics. Read my reply above.....I explained it in detail.
  • VhaeyneVhaeyne Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I like what you are saying, but people will riot in the streets if they lock cosmetics to progression. As much as I would like AoC to be a 100% hardcore experience. They have to make some compromises if they are going to pull players from other games. Competition is high between MMOs, and AoC is already going to be a more time consuming game. It might not sound like much, but they way they handle cosmetics could change the percentage of overall subs from month to month. This is one of those issues that I am fine with conceding to populous opinion if it is better for the overall success of the game in the long term.
    TVMenSP.png
    If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
  • TimeraiderTimeraider Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    ninfosho wrote: »
    @CaptnChuck @Timeraider @Balrog21 @Dreoh @Vhaeyne
    Timeraider wrote: »
    ninfosho wrote: »
    I have argued many times that I don't want any cosmetics in games, or I at least want the option to disable peoples cosmetics so that I only see the gear they are actually wearing.

    The good news so far is that the leveling sets I have seen look like they have a visual progression to them so far.

    Agree, as long as I can turn off other players cosmetics I'm fine with that

    I havent looked fully into the way of applying skins yet, but judging by the first post .. you can get 1 piece of a set (for example a chest) and then apply the skin belonging to that chest to all pieces of your gear? (So helmet, boots etc. to?). Its a bit unclear in your explanation.
    If thats the case, they imo should change it to the GW2 system. You get a chest, you have the chest's skin and can only apply that to a chestpiece (maybe even limited to the same armor-type (cloth/leather/plate etc.).. nothing more, nothing less.

    So they way I understand, with character skins there's no restrictions at all

    You just buy the skin and get to apply it right away

    My argument is to make some sort of barrier of exclusivity just like they do with the rest of the skins

    mounts, freeholds, pets require you to first obtain a mount, build a freehold, get a pet and only then apply the skin and even that's not enough imo

    It's different with character skins because your character is a given, you cannot obtain it

    My point is why bound skins to character and not armor that you will first need to obtain

    Just like you've suggested, make it depend on the tier, rarity or type to represent your progression

    What would be the visual difference between an end game player and a fresh one if they look the same?

    What would feel special about seeing on day one everyone around you wear the same skin?

    Maybe that's the price we have to pay for no p2w cash shop

    Can't deny that. I get the feeling that it is a price that will need to be paid, because you know the argument from the other side will be just as easy.
    "We pay money for cosmetics.. we own those. Why would we need to go through hurdles to use something that's ours. The game allows us to buy these cosmetics and as such we should be able to use them irrelevant of what and how we use them"
    And while theoretically that's ofcourse totally not true as you don't "own" anything and have 0 rights in that aspect, in practise there has not been a company yet that actually won that argument.

    So far I luckily haven't really had the issue in to many games. I ofcourse only like cosmetics that are themed to fit in the game.. but also very recognisable. This makes it so that you can see from a distance exactly who is wearing actual endgame gear.. and who is wearing cosmetics. This was the case for example in GW2.
    In FFXIV however for example, all the cosmetics in the store are.. well.. cosplay clothes. They are visually so weak that any mediocre endgame set looks 10 times better, but they are made with the full intention of having a cosmetic set that looks like a specific story, lore or job character (which is not something Ashes can really rely on).
    I hope they can find the fine border whereby cosmetics don't overwhelm actual gear, are clearly recognisable as being cosmetics but at the same time there is enough incentive to buy them so that the company doesnt lose out on to many sales.

    Its... difficult :P
    SoulfulDisastrousIrukandjijellyfish-small.gif
    A being can not judge light if he has never seen it, neither can he judge darkness if he never has been it
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