Cleric - master of life AND death?

LowQuey

Hi guys,

So for those that haven't seen my recent t post about the corruption system, I'm pretty new to AoC and therefore may not be aware of things that are common knowledge for more experienced people.

So I've seen a lot around clerics and their healing prowess, but so far theres nothing I've seen that says about their death magic. Does anyone know what is planned around this as I'm really interested the dark templar style rather than the holy healbot that's been constantly advertised for the archetype.

Cheers,


--Loki--

LowQuey

Hi guys,

So for those that haven't seen my recent t post about the corruption system, I'm pretty new to AoC and therefore may not be aware of things that are common knowledge for more experienced people.

So I've seen a lot around clerics and their healing prowess, but so far theres nothing I've seen that says about their death magic. Does anyone know what is planned around this as I'm really interested the dark templar style rather than the holy healbot that's been constantly advertised for the archetype.

Cheers,


--Loki--

Volgaire

We know very little about how exactly classes are going to work, I'd refer to the wiki if you are looking for anything specific.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/

Volgaire

We know very little about how exactly classes are going to work, I'd refer to the wiki if you are looking for anything specific.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/

LowQuey

miaomiao wrote: »

We know very little about how exactly classes are going to work, I'd refer to the wiki if you are looking for anything specific.

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/

Yeah sadly all you get on wiki is the promise of life and death and loads about healing. Thanks anyway 😃

Eburin

@LowQuey if you are hoping for something like a WoW shadow priest where your primary archetype is cleric but you are focused primarily on damage then I don't think that will be possible. Steven has been very clear so far that your role is determined by your primary archetype and that clerics are healers. It might be possible to change the aesthetics of a class with different secondary archetypes but that is purely speculation and you would still be a healer.

Kazan Tenno

Wiki says that they might be able to sense corruption - or something to that effect. Death augments (for doubling cleric) will probably cause damage over time, I think.

LowQuey

EvelynChills wrote: »

@LowQuey if you are hoping for something like a WoW shadow priest where your primary archetype is cleric but you are focused primarily on damage then I don't think that will be possible. Steven has been very clear so far that your role is determined by your primary archetype and that clerics are healers. It might be possible to change the aesthetics of a class with different secondary archetypes but that is purely speculation and you would still be a healer.

Actually I was hoping dor something more like a Rift Cleric or a Death Knight from WoW.

Steven actually described Clerics as:

In such a dangerous world, a cleric is never wanting for friends. They can protect their allies in a number of ways and when necessary, SNUFF THE LIFE OUT OF OTHERS. Masters over the very essence of life, they can sense the broken and corrupted.

You'll also note when looking at cleric augments the player chooses between life or death augments indicating there is death magic available through the class. Even a summon turns necromancer when combined with cleric reinforcing this.

ZeekMystic

With the information we have currently and with no knowledge of WoW whatsoever I think a high sword (fighter/cleric) with a focus on death augments might suit something more like a death knight than a cleric base. Although a cleric/fighter is called a Templar, as it stands there just isn’t a lot of information.

We’ll hear more about primary archetypes leading into the release of alpha one and the combos leading into alpha two.

So keep an ear out

LowQuey

KeybladerH wrote: »

With the information we have currently and with no knowledge of WoW whatsoever I think a high sword (fighter/cleric) with a focus on death augments might suit something more like a death knight than a cleric base. Although a cleric/fighter is called a Templar, as it stands there just isn’t a lot of information.

We’ll hear more about primary archetypes leading into the release of alpha one and the combos leading into alpha two.

So keep an ear out

Haha, you literally just named the pairings inwas thinking of!

Yeah, theres a lot of little bits that point to death magic, like even divine form has an damaging buff as well as a healing one. I just wasnt sure if others might have more info on this than me xD

Timeraider

I always keep my hopes up for a game that actually is able to implement an actual damage-orientated holy Priest that actually can get anywhere close to a mediocre mage. Would love to see Holy Pillars of light burning away the HERETICS!

Most games however seem to think that light is by definition a "healing" element. Really hope someone steps away from it .. because if you look at the way real light magic is used in myths and legends, its very rarely for healing

Eburin

@LowQuey I think you are reading a bit too much into flavour text; clerics will, of course, have some abilities that do damage to enemies but their primary role is healing. Steven has been very clear in interviews and dev discussions that the purpose of secondary archetypes is to blur the line between roles a little bit, not change them. If your primary archetype is tank your role will be tank no matter what, if your primary archetype is mage you will be a ranged dps no matter what, if your primary archetype is cleric then you will be a healer. This could obviously change at any point during development but as they have been describing their intentions so far you will probably have more luck with fighter/cleric as KeybladerH suggested rather than trying to play cleric/x as something other than a healer.

LowQuey

@EvelynChills You might be right, but I do feel that if that's the case then theres a huge hole where the dark caster classes are missing.
I'd also find it strange to see more options in that genre by going for augments then it being your primary class: the point of augments is you take PART of that archetype to alter your primary one. If it's not part of the cleric as a primary archetype it would be weird that they've included it in the cleric as a secondary one.

Damokles

I imagine the Cleric in Ashes like a Disciplin priest in WoW.
Dealing damage, while also healing.

LowQuey

@Damokles makes sense except for the specifically stated:

Classes with Cleric as a secondary archetype are able to choose between life or death augments.

Again why allow death magic for cleric as a secondary archetype and not primary one?

ZeekMystic

LowQuey wrote: »

@EvelynChills You might be right, but I do feel that if that's the case then theres a huge hole where the dark caster classes are missing.
I'd also find it strange to see more options in that genre by going for augments then it being your primary class: the point of augments is you take PART of that archetype to alter your primary one. If it's not part of the cleric as a primary archetype it would be weird that they've included it in the cleric as a secondary one.

I agree that dark casters are missing as someone who loves a hero corrupted by darkness that still fights against said darkness I wish that was available.

I do however think this might be by design as part of the story as the game takes place in a world the player are returning to after it fell to corruption 1000 years prier. I feel dark casters may only appear as the villains as part of the story... at least in base game I’m sure lol

Lyiat

LowQuey wrote: »

@Damokles makes sense except for the specifically stated:

Classes with Cleric as a secondary archetype are able to choose between life or death augments.

Again why allow death magic for cleric as a secondary archetype and not primary one?

I don't think you fully understand the intent behind the archetype system... Your main class is fairly neutral and standard in theme. It's the archetypes and augments you earn through them are what is going to give your character their variety and flavor.

LowQuey

@KeybladerH pretty much. I'm thinking the dark cleric that hunts the corrupted to make amends for his own dark powers xD

Damokles

LowQuey wrote: »

@Damokles makes sense except for the specifically stated:

Classes with Cleric as a secondary archetype are able to choose between life or death augments.

Again why allow death magic for cleric as a secondary archetype and not primary one?

You will most likely get some interesting abilities down the line as main priest.
Some of the ones shown were crazy:
Switch locations with enemies.
Put an enemy and yourself in stasis.
Banish an enemy (blink him away)
Mass stun if enemies leave a certain area
etc.

Currently, they seem to throw around solar magic like they are candy. xD
Death magic is not always something like shadows or stuff like that, the sun kills more people each year then the absence of it does ;D
Burn away the impurities until only bones remain!

LowQuey

@Lyiat indeed I may be wrong. I just see the various archetypes having bits and peices of their primary abilities in the secondary augments. Take a mage for example: Mages are all about the elements and teleportation. As a secondary archetype they allow you to augment these into your primary archetype abilities. So if you do the reverse with the cleric where the augments are for life and death, then surely both should be offered in the primary archetype?

LowQuey

@Damokles this is entire possible. I hope it's not the case but it might be. It would make the summoner primary with cleric secondary a bit weird though as you get zombies, skeletons and other undead with it...

Damokles

LowQuey wrote: »

@Damokles this is entire possible. I hope it's not the case but it might be. It would make the summoner primary with cleric secondary a bit weird though as you get zombies, skeletons and other undead with it...

You get the power of life obviously as a necromancer. You give skeletons and abominations enough life to serve a new purpose. Namely, to die once more, but this time in your name.

Lyiat

LowQuey wrote: »

@Lyiat indeed I may be wrong. I just see the various archetypes having bits and peices of their primary abilities in the secondary augments. Take a mage for example: Mages are all about the elements and teleportation. As a secondary archetype they allow you to augment these into your primary archetype abilities. So if you do the reverse with the cleric where the augments are for life and death, then surely both should be offered in the primary archetype?

Because the 'theme' of a Cleric in an MMO has steadily moved away from being a divine caster centered around their deity and moved on to 'this is the healer, he does healy healy things'. And the game is going to reflect that - the primary thing clerics are going to be doing is going to be healing. You'll be able to offset this a bit with the archtype system, but the purpose of a cleric in this game is to heal people, so it's not going to let you go pure DPS, or even mostly DPS, because that doesn't fit the class role.

You're more likely going to get the theme you want out of being a Mage/Rogue (Shadow Caster) while worshiping a dark god of the pantheon, if the game allows, letting you augment the elemental abilities of the Mage into shadow and darkness spells instead.

Eburin

@LowQuey I agree, there are several standard fantasy archetypes that aren't directly represented in AoC (dark magic/warlocks, nature magic/druids, etc.). I think Intrepid originally wanted to have more classes but they decided to trim down the list so that they could make sure each archetype felt unique and powerful. Depending on how significant the aesthetic/mechanical changes that augments provide are it's possible that mage/cleric or mage/summoner might be able to fulfill the dark magic user fantasy.

As for death augments, clerics will have damage-dealing abilities and those abilities will most likely be thematically related to the life and death augments but ultimately clerics are not a dps archetype so their death magic damage abilities will not have as much dps as a fighter or mage will have. If you decide to go mage/cleric and augment your damage skills with death augments my understanding is that those augments will change the theme/mechanics of those abilities, not the fundamental purpose of them. Similarly, if you go cleric/cleric and heavily invest in death augments my understanding is that you will absolutely do more damage than a cleric who invested more into life augments but you are never going to do as much damage as a dps archetype and your primary role will still be healing.

Hurf Derfman

LowQuey wrote: »

EvelynChills wrote: »

@LowQuey if you are hoping for something like a WoW shadow priest where your primary archetype is cleric but you are focused primarily on damage then I don't think that will be possible. Steven has been very clear so far that your role is determined by your primary archetype and that clerics are healers. It might be possible to change the aesthetics of a class with different secondary archetypes but that is purely speculation and you would still be a healer.

Actually I was hoping dor something more like a Rift Cleric or a Death Knight from WoW.

Steven actually described Clerics as:

In such a dangerous world, a cleric is never wanting for friends. They can protect their allies in a number of ways and when necessary, SNUFF THE LIFE OUT OF OTHERS. Masters over the very essence of life, they can sense the broken and corrupted.

You'll also note when looking at cleric augments the player chooses between life or death augments indicating there is death magic available through the class. Even a summon turns necromancer when combined with cleric reinforcing this.

Summoner/ceric is a Necromancer.

Tank/cleric is a Paladin.

I see no reason why you wouldn't be able to build a Death Paladin OR a Life Paladin.

Cheers,

--Tyr--

ZeekMystic

I mean they showed off a cleric attacking with a spear of light, a whip of light and their healing ground AOE is also a dot. So far you get as many damage spells a the healers in ff14 and that’s not even their full toolkit yet so...

LowQuey

@EvelynChills yeah I noticed straight away that druids were missing lol.

The idea of playing a dark death magic cleric is not to be the highest dps character ever. Clerics in general by definition are not primarily there for doing the highest dps anymore than fighters are. The high fps classes have always been mages, rogues, rangers etc but they pay for this by being far less tanky.

What I'm hoping to see is a kind of death magic fight hybrid style character that wields his great big weapon to crack heads while cursing, fearing and draining the life from his foes. That's my view of a Dark Templar 👹

LowQuey

@KeybladerH yeah I saw that too which is what I saw it as the "Holy" side of the cleric (remember cleric will still need to farm so even as healer they'll need some damaging stuff xD)

I'm just hoping for some stuff around the "Unholy" side now xD

BiggsUltra

I truly hope that choosing death magic augments for a Paladin actually creates something more like a Death Knight. Damage mitigation through life-steal and/or mana drain, etc.

Hurf Derfman

BiggsUltra wrote: »

I truly hope that choosing death magic augments for a Paladin actually creates something more like a Death Knight. Damage mitigation through life-steal and/or mana drain, etc.

Agreed.

Where as something akin to a Shadow Priest would be a mage sub cleric with death augments.

Kneczhevo

I always read Life and Death as; Holy and Shadow (ala WoW). Both heal, one heals better. Just depends how you Spec/Aug.