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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest news on Alpha Two.
Check out general Announcements here to see the latest news on Ashes of Creation & Intrepid Studios.
To get the quickest updates regarding Alpha Two, connect your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Visual progression and how to fix it (🎬take 2)
Potato Basket
Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
I want to remind you the point of this post is to have a discussion🙏
Following the discussion on reddit, considering main arguments from the comments I'd like to suggest an alternative solution that tries to mitigate the loss of visual progression while potentially improve Intrepid's business model
A win win for everyone so please, bear with me
The problem
- Being able to apply costume skins without requirements (while the rest of the cosmetics have requirements)
- No option to toggle cosmetics on and off
What we want
- Visual progression to matter (that "starter" feel)
- Looks to represent time invested playing the game
- Have a sense of anticipation and exclusivity
What we don't want
- Upset those who already pre-ordered
- Make it harder for those who don't have as much time to play
- Hurt Intrepid's business model
The solution
- Already pre-ordered cosmetics enjoy early adopters benefit of no restrictions (no change)
- Make future costume cosmetics tied to tier
- Price scales accordingly to chosen tier
So every costume skin has these options to chose from:
$35 - COMMON
$30 - UNCOMMON
$25 - RARE
$20 - EPIC
$15 - LEGENDARY
Whichever tier you buy will determine the starting tier of gear you will be able to apply your skin to
Assuming you bought the legendary tier, you will be able to apply your skin only once you equip a legendary armor in game
If you bought the common tier you get to apply the same skin on common gear and higher
The tier represents an entry point of when the player will be able to apply a costume skin according to his gear in game
$25 is the current price for pre-ordered costume skins, being the base line with a reasonable time-frame from purchase to application (assuming rare tier will be the middle in game)
Players who want to deviate from this point will pay the difference accordingly
Those who want to enjoy looking good earlier still can by paying a premium price
Those who want to stand on their principles get to enjoy a lower price
Those who want to enjoy good looks but don't play as much get the middle point
This allows more options catered to more needs, incentivizing visual integrity while breaking it comes at a price that Intrepid and we the players benefit from for further support for the game
Essentially Intrepid just has to pick a point when this will take effect, personally I think with the release of Alpha 1 is a great time
Feedback is very welcome, please be gentle ^^
Following the discussion on reddit, considering main arguments from the comments I'd like to suggest an alternative solution that tries to mitigate the loss of visual progression while potentially improve Intrepid's business model
A win win for everyone so please, bear with me
The problem
- Being able to apply costume skins without requirements (while the rest of the cosmetics have requirements)
- No option to toggle cosmetics on and off
What we want
- Visual progression to matter (that "starter" feel)
- Looks to represent time invested playing the game
- Have a sense of anticipation and exclusivity
What we don't want
- Upset those who already pre-ordered
- Make it harder for those who don't have as much time to play
- Hurt Intrepid's business model
The solution
- Already pre-ordered cosmetics enjoy early adopters benefit of no restrictions (no change)
- Make future costume cosmetics tied to tier
- Price scales accordingly to chosen tier
So every costume skin has these options to chose from:
$35 - COMMON
$30 - UNCOMMON
$25 - RARE
$20 - EPIC
$15 - LEGENDARY
Whichever tier you buy will determine the starting tier of gear you will be able to apply your skin to
Assuming you bought the legendary tier, you will be able to apply your skin only once you equip a legendary armor in game
If you bought the common tier you get to apply the same skin on common gear and higher
The tier represents an entry point of when the player will be able to apply a costume skin according to his gear in game
$25 is the current price for pre-ordered costume skins, being the base line with a reasonable time-frame from purchase to application (assuming rare tier will be the middle in game)
Players who want to deviate from this point will pay the difference accordingly
Those who want to enjoy looking good earlier still can by paying a premium price
Those who want to stand on their principles get to enjoy a lower price
Those who want to enjoy good looks but don't play as much get the middle point
This allows more options catered to more needs, incentivizing visual integrity while breaking it comes at a price that Intrepid and we the players benefit from for further support for the game
Essentially Intrepid just has to pick a point when this will take effect, personally I think with the release of Alpha 1 is a great time
Feedback is very welcome, please be gentle ^^
1
Comments
-Intrepid will, following your suggestion have to make more skins to cater to the different gear tiers.
-MMOs are one of the few game genres with many players who "No-Life" them, which means slowly but surely, you'll have more players acquiring the higher gear tiers and having no use for the lower ones. This means that Intrepid will be selling skins that look better, skins that are higher in demand for less, and attempting to sell "worse" looking skins, that are lower in demand, for more.
What I meant is for the same costume skin you have different entry points of tiers, not different skin for different tier as you understood
Steven has said that they want the visual progression to be good and that the end game gear to look as good as cosmetics bought from the shop.
I personally don’t start glamouring my equipment until I reach the end game because I like seeing the progression of my armour and weapons, however others do not and want to look good from the start and why shouldn’t they?
It doesn’t hurt anyone if they do and the only time it’s bad is if you literally have to pay to look good in the game...looking at you BDO
"- Being able to apply costume skins without requirements"
I don't agree that this is actually a issue. Like I was trying to say before in your other thread. This is extremely temporary. Players will exceed those requirements fairly quickly, and the good ol days of visual progression will be gone until intrepid spools up a new server. It may take a month to a half a year, but sooner or later players are going to look epic. I think day one you are going to see a ton of cosmetics anyways. They have been selling cosmetics for years now. The idea that there will be a time where everyone looks like peasants is a fantasy already.
Complicating the pricing of cosmetics for a temporary gain of a slight sense of visual progression is just not worth it in my opinion. I like the idea of no cosmetics/ being able to turn them off. Sadly everyone acts like a todder that just got their moms phone that was playing "baby shark" taken away when you talk about being able to disable cosmetics on your client. We ain't gonna win this one.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
agreed
Create an "immersion mode" setting in the UI.
This would only show cosmetics deemed immersive:
Uncommon starting with lvl 10+
rare with 20+
epic with 30+
legendary with 40+
certains cosmetics giant duck heads, swimwear etc. wouldn't be shown at all to people who have it toggled.
This will:
*prevent immersion breaking for players who it is important to.
*still allow people to show off their shinies to everybody eventually once they are at the required level and most people even before that
*Allow IS to sell items that don't fit into the fantasy setting as people within immersion mode wouldn't see them.
Hard on/off toggles are bad. This one is not
Most others don't really seem to be off the charts to me. Just different types of armor any seasoned adventure could have
A idea I would be in favor of, but once again the crying would never stop. They say that I am ruining their fun, by restricting their freedom of self expression. I say they are ruining my fun by turning the games that I play to immerse myself into some bad ass fantasy shit into a Walmart parking lot. What these people don't realize is that the allowing people to disable cosmetics client side is the middle ground. They will still fight until they have dried every last tear in their body to force use to see their shit.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
but you aren't restricting their fun at all.
You can't toggle it off. The only thing thats holding their freedom of self expression back is them being lvl 18 instead of 20. That's in their agency to change
I'd like the Fox Mount and Pet skins... but not for $50 CAD. Not for myself and I know quite a few people who feel the same way so I really don't think this is going to be that much of an issue when likely millions more people will join the game post launch vs the 100-200K or so that have likely gotten the Pre-Order packages.
Love a good story and lore.
Twitch Streamer : PRO Discord
"certains cosmetics giant duck heads, swimwear etc. wouldn't be shown at all to people who have it toggled."
That, and I personally do want a hard On/Off Toggle. I just realize it will probably never happen. Just like all of these other ideas to increase immersion and reduce cosmetics.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
well, the alternative is that they aren't being sold at all.
Steven already said that they won't go for cosmetics that fit into the setting. So you aren't restricting them, but give them the chance to get what they want
I said no in the last post, and I stick to that answer for this post as well.
Similar to what @Vhaeyne said, Allowing cosmetic items to be applied to individual items provides a high level of customization to players that spend a lot of money in the cash shop. This will, in a way, be p2w.
If its a one piece cosmetic skin that cannot be mix and matched, then that level of customization doesn't exist. Sure you would look cool, but a player that matches different pieces of gear to create a cool set, will look cooler.
Does it ruin immersion? Yes. But its about choosing the lesser of the two evils.
Seems pretty set in stone unfortunately. I like the discussion, but I think the majority of players want what he is describing in the video.
It would be really cool if someone figured out a way to client side mod the cosmetics out of the game, and intrepid just looked the other way. Like FFXIV tried to do until nude screenshots started ending up on their twitter feed.
If I had more time, I would write a shorter post.
I think it's stupid that instead of gearing all cosmetics towards following the "lore" of the game, they're just going to go straight for whatever gets cash. Can't wait to see a bunch of kids in jordans riding ducati's...
THIS. This is a good point to talk about. Because by the looks of it, players are gonna end up looking like lvl50 character on their lvl1s just because of these cosmetics.
I’d like to suggest we reframe the problem so that it is more honest. I don’t read the problem above to be about your appearance, but about how you are perceived. Those are very different things.
Let’s say you spent your whole career working tirelessly up the ladder until finally you reach an executive role. As a reward you can afford and then buy a Ferrari. Now driving your Ferrari, it represents an achievement to you, and you want to be perceived as reaching that achievement.
Now, let’s say I rent a Lambo and pull up next to you.
The argument you’re making above is that I (as a consumer) shouldn’t be able to rent an expensive car and further that a rental agency (as a business) should not be renting expensive cars, because you feel it diminishes how you are perceived.
So, my suggested solution is a little more simple: enjoy your Ferrari and take pleasure in what it took to earn it.
If someone doesn’t think x or y of you, so what? Exclusivity on the whole is largely driven by ego. Take pride in what you’ve done, and let everything else go.
For example I really like that red ghostly concept art armor, but I'm not gonna pay for the cosmetic.
My solution:
- Have good looking gear you can earn in game
- Have (current) cosmetics
- Have some sort of proxy currency you can earn in-game or buy via cash shop, so that you can still get those unique cosmetic...it'll just take you some time.
An example of a game which has done this system reasonably well is Warframe. Just have a few ways you can earn these 'gems' which can't be grinded for and are time gated.
E.g. Flaming set costs 20 gems. 9.99 for 20 gems. You can earn 5 gems a week through completing in-game activities.
What do you mean? They're creating lore for the cosmetics as they release them.
Future Crafting Plans: Herbalism > Alchemy & Scribe or Mining > Metalworking > Jewel cutting (Pending)
The thing is you're not renting a lambo for a limited time, you're actually buying and owning an equivalent to the lambo I've worked for like a Ferrari which doesn't represent any time, effort or progression
It's seems like everyone OK with it as long as both looking on par but that throws visual progression out the window because everyone will own a Ferrari or an equivalent so there's no exclusivity in owning it in the first place while it also makes my hard earned lambo through tears, sweat and monthly sub fees worth as much as your $25 Ferrari
If you can't see a problem with that then I guess you'll have to experience it on your own first
The analogy isn't perfect, so let's say it was a gift. The point was that Lambo guy didn't earn it. If that diminishes how you feel about your Ferrari, I don't think that's something someone else has the responsibility to solve for you.
That's all the prestige you need, that's all the exclusivity you need. Owning a Cosmetic everybody can own through spending 10$? Well he might look nice, but he is still just one of many.
Own a cosmetic less than 1% of the server owns? Now we are talking. He isn't buying a lambo. I won't pretend to know enough about cars to make a proper analogy, so let me just say this:
He is buying an somewhat above average car. You on the other hand will have a limited edition, highly exclusive car, that most people will never attain, if you want to put your mind to that.
Sold cosmetics won't matter, every player, that's no complete casual, will know the difference between your skin and his. @ninfosho