Player Health Bar

Mojottv

On recent gameplay video, I seen that during PVP, you can see other players health bar. Is this going to change or that's how its going to be?

I think they should hide hp of other players, except for party members obviously. I know that most of the today's mmo's have either health bars or color coding for certaing hp lvl, but it actually ruins PVP experience, especially small scale PVP. I think Lineage 2 had it right, where you can't see enemies hp, so when fighting you don't really know if you're winning or not, until people die. And most newer mmo's you can just see how much damage you did, how much you received and usually you can approximate, if you will win or lose. There's no more excitement of actually winning in 1v1, because you already know, whos gonna win, before the fight is over. And in most cases, when one of the fighters gets to half hp, he starts running because he can see that he barely made a dent, etc...

DioTheHero

Player health

Health is a stat in Ashes of Creation.[17][18]

Players that are not in the same party or raid will not be able to see other player's health percentages or exact health bar values.[17][18]
A player's name plate will deteriorate to give an indication of how much damage they have taken.[17][18][19]

With regards to seeing another player's health: As you know their name plate will deteriorate or give you an indication of like hey they've taken damage they're significantly injured, but you're not going to get a percentage. You're not gonna get an exact bar value, unless you're in their party or in their raid.[18] – Steven Sharif

DioTheHero

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

Mojottv

Diocles wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

Bit better than health bar, but still not ideal, dunno why would you even want to show any info regarding other players hp

Dreoh

Mojottv wrote: »

Diocles wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

Bit better than health bar, but still not ideal, dunno why would you even want to show any info regarding other players hp

Because it makes sense to?

I hate to make this argument in game design but here it does fit. In real life you can see when your enemy is damaged / close to death, it only makes sense for a game to facilitate that same effect in some way. Even if it's not numerical values, some kind of battle damage visual helps.

Even DnD has a "Is he bloodied?" mechanic.

DioTheHero

Mojottv wrote: »

Diocles wrote: »

https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

Bit better than health bar, but still not ideal, dunno why would you even want to show any info regarding other players hp

Well, I think it's relative in a corporeal sense. While humans don't have health bars, you can judge someone's condition based on visible wounds and their reactions. Consider a five-round UFC match and a fighter's condition from the first round versus getting bodied for four rounds. I think degrading the nameplate by fifths (100%, 80%, 60%, etc) would be far too accurate but quarters or thirds would suffice. Edit: Sorry for effectively reiterating what Dreoh said. I was stuck composing the response for a long time due to other matters.

Khronus

A health bar has a part of gaming since the very beginning. It just makes sense to be able to see the enemies health from a tactical/fun perspective. It's a small sense of progress as each fight rages on. I would certainly want others to see my health bar as I smash them around the field while getting pocket heals : )

MrPockets

KHRONUS wrote: »

A health bar has a part of gaming since the very beginning. It just makes sense to be able to see the enemies health from a tactical/fun perspective. It's a small sense of progress as each fight rages on. I would certainly want others to see my health bar as I smash them around the field while getting pocket heals : )

Yea, I agree that the fun part alone pretty much outweighs any other counter argument (since this is a game after all). While it may not be 'fun' for the entire player base, it will for sure be for the overwhelming majority. Seeing bars go down or seeing big chunks disappear is just so satisfying.

And tactically...having no hp information at best doesn't change much (react to the opponent running, guesstimate how much hp they have left based on your dps) or removes viable tactics (targeting a low health enemy before they can escape)

Mojottv

Well Lineage had antigriefing mechanic, such as CP, CP acted as additional HP, but that was only damaged by PvP. This was done, so that it would be harder to damage your hp while you're hunting mobs, so that mobs would kill you. Unless, they set variable rate on visualizing hp information, such as let say red when 0-30%, orange 20-60%, 40-80%,70-100% so that its not exact science on when the color changes, its going to be very easy to flag on people, and make them die to mobs.

Someone mentioned real life example as seeing when opponent is hurt etc. so you see when its hurt, but you don't know how many punches you need to throw for him to be at 30% of his health.

Imagine, you see someone making mob trains, he's at green hp. You hit him once, still green. Again, orrange.
If you know the color change thresholds and they're at 30% increments, then you could approximate that one hit makes about 10-15% damage.couple more hits, stun, pick up the loot. ezy pezy, no corruption.

Another possible solution would only show hp info on flagged people.

I'm interested, if people pro health bars have ever played open world pvp games, where making people die from mobs was a thing?

SepiDN

Mojottv wrote: »

Well Lineage had antigriefing mechanic, such as CP, CP acted as additional HP, but that was only damaged by PvP. This was done, so that it would be harder to damage your hp while you're hunting mobs, so that mobs would kill you. Unless, they set variable rate on visualizing hp information, such as let say red when 0-30%, orange 20-60%, 40-80%,70-100% so that its not exact science on when the color changes, its going to be very easy to flag on people, and make them die to mobs.

Someone mentioned real life example as seeing when opponent is hurt etc. so you see when its hurt, but you don't know how many punches you need to throw for him to be at 30% of his health.

Imagine, you see someone making mob trains, he's at green hp. You hit him once, still green. Again, orrange.
If you know the color change thresholds and they're at 30% increments, then you could approximate that one hit makes about 10-15% damage.couple more hits, stun, pick up the loot. ezy pezy, no corruption.

Another possible solution would only show hp info on flagged people.

I'm interested, if people pro health bars have ever played open world pvp games, where making people die from mobs was a thing?

I think activating it when flagged would make the most sense. HP bars encourage griefing in PvX game and I Think the indicator giving out HP% does the same.

MrPockets wrote: »

KHRONUS wrote: »

A health bar has a part of gaming since the very beginning. It just makes sense to be able to see the enemies health from a tactical/fun perspective. It's a small sense of progress as each fight rages on. I would certainly want others to see my health bar as I smash them around the field while getting pocket heals : )

Yea, I agree that the fun part alone pretty much outweighs any other counter argument (since this is a game after all). While it may not be 'fun' for the entire player base, it will for sure be for the overwhelming majority. Seeing bars go down or seeing big chunks disappear is just so satisfying.

And tactically...having no hp information at best doesn't change much (react to the opponent running, guesstimate how much hp they have left based on your dps) or removes viable tactics (targeting a low health enemy before they can escape)

I don't really get any satisfaction to see the bar go down. I get satisfaction when I get a kill.
And I get lots of satisfaction running with 10hp when no one knows I'm low and still getting kills. No HP bars create very interesting situations and this is why Im guessing AoC has taken this direction.

Mojottv

SepiDN wrote: »

Mojottv wrote: »

Well Lineage had antigriefing mechanic, such as CP, CP acted as additional HP, but that was only damaged by PvP. This was done, so that it would be harder to damage your hp while you're hunting mobs, so that mobs would kill you. Unless, they set variable rate on visualizing hp information, such as let say red when 0-30%, orange 20-60%, 40-80%,70-100% so that its not exact science on when the color changes, its going to be very easy to flag on people, and make them die to mobs.

Someone mentioned real life example as seeing when opponent is hurt etc. so you see when its hurt, but you don't know how many punches you need to throw for him to be at 30% of his health.

Imagine, you see someone making mob trains, he's at green hp. You hit him once, still green. Again, orrange.
If you know the color change thresholds and they're at 30% increments, then you could approximate that one hit makes about 10-15% damage.couple more hits, stun, pick up the loot. ezy pezy, no corruption.

Another possible solution would only show hp info on flagged people.

I'm interested, if people pro health bars have ever played open world pvp games, where making people die from mobs was a thing?

I think activating it when flagged would make the most sense. HP bars encourage griefing in PvX game and I Think the indicator giving out HP% does the same.

MrPockets wrote: »

KHRONUS wrote: »

A health bar has a part of gaming since the very beginning. It just makes sense to be able to see the enemies health from a tactical/fun perspective. It's a small sense of progress as each fight rages on. I would certainly want others to see my health bar as I smash them around the field while getting pocket heals : )

Yea, I agree that the fun part alone pretty much outweighs any other counter argument (since this is a game after all). While it may not be 'fun' for the entire player base, it will for sure be for the overwhelming majority. Seeing bars go down or seeing big chunks disappear is just so satisfying.

And tactically...having no hp information at best doesn't change much (react to the opponent running, guesstimate how much hp they have left based on your dps) or removes viable tactics (targeting a low health enemy before they can escape)

I don't really get any satisfaction to see the bar go down. I get satisfaction when I get a kill.
And I get lots of satisfaction running with 10hp when no one knows I'm low and still getting kills. No HP bars create very interesting situations and this is why Im guessing AoC has taken this direction.

Completely agree with you. Not seeing hp bars or any kind of hp representation would be ideal, it adds more excitement when you actually kill someone in PVP also adds more competitiveness, as no competitive games give any kind of hp information. take any competitive shooter and imagine if you know hp of your enemies, this would make it completely different game.

I would be even against providing information on armor grade, enchantment lvl etc, so you would have to judge based on how the armors and weapons look, but i guess because of cosmetic items, you cant really do that..