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Idea for Competitive PVP from competitive PVP player

Hello, im Sherkus i played almost all the MMORPGS out there, but i have been a competitive player from World of Warcraft Burning Crusade (when wow was still wow).

The RNG in the combat is something that i dislike in PVP since skill is lossing importance, im talking about dodging, blocking, critical strike, etc.

RNG is not going to matter much when everyone is low lvl or low tier, but at higher tier levels those RNG's are going to increase with the item lvl.

My idea is change this RNG stats only WHEN you are attacking/healing another player, how it could be changed?

Maybe with a resilience system from Burning Crusade PVP Arena set, resilience does the next: One percent of resilience reduces damage taken from all player attacks by 1%.
The change should be for example, change every 1% stat of crit,dodge, block for 1% of resilience (or a similar system)

https://wow.gamepedia.com/PvP_Resilience this is the system and there are also the changes that they made across the years.

With resilience system (or something similar) skill still matters and also the equipmet but in % increases not RNG.

Regards

Comments

  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack
    edited September 2020
    I agree that RNG elements in PvP are terrible, and that in 2020 crit chance and dodge chance are lazy passive stats/abilities.

    However, I dont think mmorpgs are ready to evolve in this matter.

    There is nothing I dislike more than losing to luck. Also when I win I hate that my opponents can say "You landed too many criticals"

    I prefer iframes for SOME rogue and SOME mage abilities, tied to the themes of "agility" and "illusion", but not as a stat or passive for those class, or any other classes
  • AtiqaAtiqa Member
    edited September 2020
    Personally I wish more games would use a pseudo random system like for example Dota does.

    For those who don't know what that is, it's basically a way to minimize being lucky or unlucky. So if you have 20% crit chance overall, you won't have 20% crit chance every hit. Instead your first hit might maybe 5% chance, and if you didn't crit, the next one would go up to 10% or something.

    When you sum it up, you would end up at 20% crit chance, but it's very unlikely that you will be super lucky and just crit several times in a row, or that you go forever without any crit.

    Still has rng, but a good compromise imo.
  • Atiqa wrote: »
    Personally I wish more games would use a pseudo random system like for example Dota does.
    ...

    I'd echo this sentiment.

    Also agree with the thread overall. Heavy randomization detracts from the feeling of player-agency, and also lowers the skill-ceiling.
    Paradise.png
  • I personally think, that RNG factor is always good. I disagree that it detracts from skill factor. Unless of course, you have combat system that allows for 1crit kills, then yes.

    Just like fighting in real world, winner is determined by strength, skill and a little bit of luck.
    Don't see anything wrong with having crit, evasion, stun success, etc %
  • TyrantorTyrantor Member
    edited September 2020
    In MMO games that allow for attribute distribution by player, item builds and runes or other attribute enhancers, I find RNG very important.

    For example it's difficult to build a character around a specific playstyle if the RNG does not = the same % on each swing, attack, defense, etc. if someone is going to maximize their Str and each 10 points of str gives the character an extra 5% chance to crit, it sort of defeats the purpose to maximize this if the crit chance resets to a minimum on each swing that has to build up.

    Since it appears your drawing a lot of your conclusions from WoW, which from my personal opinion is a absolutely horrible game to base MMO pvp experience on, you were unable to adjust your characters stats on each level, so you were given a base stat by the game. This would make random chance pretty lame (agreed and another reason why WoW PvP is crap) because each character is basically the same with extremely minimal ability tree differences. So I would agree that yes when every warrior has the exact same stats and abilities and one just happens to crit on you every 2 swings that would be dumb.

    Consider for a second if that same warrior had to specifically design his crit chance to do that while sacrificing his health, or staminia, or attack speed. When the decision to build your character is tied to how the character plays RNG is going to be extremely important.
    Tyrantor
    Master Assassin
    (Yes same Tyrantor from Shadowbane)
    Book suggestions:
    Galaxy Outlaws books 1-16.5, Metagamer Chronicles, The Land litrpg series, Ready Player One, Zen in the Martial Arts
  • Atiqa wrote: »
    Personally I wish more games would use a pseudo random system like for example Dota does.

    For those who don't know what that is, it's basically a way to minimize being lucky or unlucky. So if you have 20% crit chance overall, you won't have 20% crit chance every hit. Instead your first hit might maybe 5% chance, and if you didn't crit, the next one would go up to 10% or something.

    When you sum it up, you would end up at 20% crit chance, but it's very unlikely that you will be super lucky and just crit several times in a row, or that you go forever without any crit.

    Still has rng, but a good compromise imo.

    Always hated the RNG in combat
    Suddenly enemy rogue that crits 6 times in a row with a 20% chance.

    There will allways be RNG in MMO regarding drops or loot.
    But RNG should never be a factor in combat or Crafting.
    It killed the Black desert crafting for me.
    And if it absolutly has to be factor, then at least a minor one.

    My own personal ability as a player should be the main factor that determines the outcome.
    Not some dice roll.
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  • KhronusKhronus Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited September 2020
    Taking away the RNG style passives would dramatically limit customizability for players. Removing dodge/crit/block just doesn't make sense. I do like the idea of resilience but not as a way to remove other passives.

    People really have a problem with rogues critical striking someone when they are built for critical strike? I would say your own skill limited you from getting away from them or your build/combos wasn't able to sustain their build/combos.

    Rogue critting 6 times in a row with 20% crit....and you think that happens all the time? You're failing to understand how the rng works here.

    first hit I don't dodge as a tank, then I get 5% dodge, then I get 10% dodge, then 15%....then I dodge and it resets. This would force healers to focus heals at the start and work heals out like a roller coaster. This would be readable and boring.

    If the game becomes 100 damage swing, I have 25% resilience, I take 75 damage.....every....single....time.....this would be trash. It becomes a math problem at this point.

    I do disagree with 1 hit kills (aimed shot and pyro blast) mechanics. That's just dumb. War should feel like war. Their job is to balance this war so that people aren't able to melt you immediately. RNG passives are hardly an issue here. However, if every class feels like each class has the same damage from skills, it again would be boring.
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