Let the people grind !

Ulf

Hello !

The other day, we were having a great conversation with a buddy of mine, sort of brainstorm session, and we are looking forward for the current development of AoC.

Im pretty sure that the Intrepid team might have this in mind but I wanted to discuss it anyway and hear everybody's thoughts about Grinding ( regarding Killing PvE ) But specially in the way that some of us really like to "SOMETIMES" Grind brainlessly. Maybe put some music and kill stuff.

Is understandable that quests and PVE most of the times goes like: " Go here, kill 0/25, pick up 0/10 , talk to this guy, done "
( Like we saw in New World's preview or most WoW-like questlines in FFxiv)

But sometimes, bigger amounts are not bad. For example a few quests from Lineage 2: The 700 Mobs from Wall of Argos , the one you needed to make the 3rd class change, and in more populated servers you had to call your guild to protect some important character that really needed to have that quest ready for the next Raid Boss, Or you were a lonewolf that waited for those 3 monsters in the back to respawn, but you were able to do your quest via patience and discipline ( Or more quest items in lower population servers )

Or the Varka's / Ketra's Alliances, where you needed only the 1st or 2nd alliance to progress your class change but you could also keep leveling the alliance to exchange Recipes and Keys needed for crafting from some NPC's, etc. And each Alliance level was like 150-300-500-700- with some Bosses here and there etc. It was fun, make a party, spend hours farming, defend your spot if someone came to attack you, and so on.

Or the Coin's quest at Level 40+ from Hunters Village, that allowed you to farm tons of skeletons and dragons in Hunters/Dragon Valley and have a chance to get C grade armor ( Chronicle 4 -Interlude )

The idea of this is that, sometimes, you get to kill stuff, withouth having to got to town every 20 mins to deliver the quest.
I would love to read what are people's thoughts about this

Just consider it, to have some variety

Have a great day everyone !

Ulf.

Ravudha

I say if people want to do the whole mindless grind thing, go nuts.

But large-scale grinding as a quest always comes off as terrible quest design, especially quest chains with increasing kill counts or when it's about having a 'chance' to get some drop.

So no to grinding quests but yes to letting players grind on their own initiative if they feel like it.

wArchAngel

I would love to see some group-centered profitable top end grinding spots, where groups of people will have the incentive to fight over areas, either single target high hp elites, or groups of mobs roaming around that you can lure and aoe with your group. I enjoy sitting hours upon hours, days upon days, grinding 'profitably', not because there is nothing to do, but because its very efficient, and its efficient because not a lot of people have the will to invest time in to "boring grind". I find it enjoyable to sit with 5-10 people in voice, in the same group, talking about nothing, laughing about everything and just brainlessly doing the same "pull area A-B-C, bring it to X, cc, aoe kill, repeat"...

I hope i will find such things and places in AoC.

CROW3

I think grinding is one way to level / get to a threshold. I’m hoping it’s going to only be one of many ways.

Roblight

No to a quest about grinding. If you want to grind mindlessly thats fine, just dont stick random quests or other garbage as a reason to justify it. Let it simply be for xp, loot or useful for a crafting purposes if you can say skin a mob.

bigepeen

Sure, quests where you have to play detective, talk to a bunch of NPCs, and kill a unique monster that you have to track through the forest are cool and all, but I'm the type of player who just skips reading walls of lore text and just does the tasks. I'm sure that there are players who really enjoy this though. I do like a variety of quests. However I'm just personally fine if devs don't spend as much time on this stuff and focus more on the non-linear open world gameplay instead, because I don't care how good the story is if there isn't much else that is well-made in the game.

DioTheHero

I played a MUD where a farmer had a non-repeatable secret quest to turn in items dropped from kobolds. The quest is pretty useless if you're higher level or just swooping through once to clear for loot, but the zone actually supported players level 1-20, and if you discover the quest when you first get there, then you pretty much acquire the amount you need by sticking to that zone for a couple of days to reach lvl 20. It rewarded a decent chunk of change for a newbie. Anyways, always thought it was neat for a simple fetch quest.

Valento92

Optional quests are optional so I see no problem at all adding this stuff.

Vyraka

The more options for quests are for the better.

stolyaR

Ulf wrote: »

Hello !

The other day, we were having a great conversation with a buddy of mine, sort of brainstorm session, and we are looking forward for the current development of AoC.

Im pretty sure that the Intrepid team might have this in mind but I wanted to discuss it anyway and hear everybody's thoughts about Grinding ( regarding Killing PvE ) But specially in the way that some of us really like to "SOMETIMES" Grind brainlessly. Maybe put some music and kill stuff.

Is understandable that quests and PVE most of the times goes like: " Go here, kill 0/25, pick up 0/10 , talk to this guy, done "
( Like we saw in New World's preview or most WoW-like questlines in FFxiv)

But sometimes, bigger amounts are not bad. For example a few quests from Lineage 2: The 700 Mobs from Wall of Argos , the one you needed to make the 3rd class change, and in more populated servers you had to call your guild to protect some important character that really needed to have that quest ready for the next Raid Boss, Or you were a lonewolf that waited for those 3 monsters in the back to respawn, but you were able to do your quest via patience and discipline ( Or more quest items in lower population servers )

Or the Varka's / Ketra's Alliances, where you needed only the 1st or 2nd alliance to progress your class change but you could also keep leveling the alliance to exchange Recipes and Keys needed for crafting from some NPC's, etc. And each Alliance level was like 150-300-500-700- with some Bosses here and there etc. It was fun, make a party, spend hours farming, defend your spot if someone came to attack you, and so on.

Or the Coin's quest at Level 40+ from Hunters Village, that allowed you to farm tons of skeletons and dragons in Hunters/Dragon Valley and have a chance to get C grade armor ( Chronicle 4 -Interlude )

The idea of this is that, sometimes, you get to kill stuff, withouth having to got to town every 20 mins to deliver the quest.
I would love to read what are people's thoughts about this

Just consider it, to have some variety

Have a great day everyone !

Ulf.

I'm missing for good grind to (group grind also).
The good times of Giant's Cave, LoA or some Catacombs for ancient aden.

Quintus

If you receive a quest to kill x number of creatures and their AI is well developed and varied it can be an enjoyable experience.

Some aspects of AI that I like are:

* Unpredictable movement
Perhaps a ranger AI lobs a few arrows and then paths behind an obstruction and begins to slowly regenerate by munching on some cornbread. Perhaps you are fighting a rogue-type monster and he vanishes for a moment, appearing behind you and stunning you. For beasts, it can be as simple as a wolf sprinting away or lunging side-to-side or enraging and howling, calling his pack.

* Varying types of the same enemy that count towards the quest
You see this a lot, actually. Perhaps you are sent to kill Murlocs. Some Murlocs have lightning attacks, some are melee. A good variety is a cheap and fun way to make the grind less dull.

* AI with voices
It would be quite entertaining to start off a battle with a humanoid NPC where he's taunting you but near the end of the battle starts begging for his life or dying with pride.

Vyraka

Quintus wrote: »

If you receive a quest to kill x number of creatures and their AI is well developed and varied it can be an enjoyable experience.

Some aspects of AI that I like are:

* Unpredictable movement
Perhaps a ranger AI lobs a few arrows and then paths behind an obstruction and begins to slowly regenerate by munching on some cornbread. Perhaps you are fighting a rogue-type monster and he vanishes for a moment, appearing behind you and stunning you. For beasts, it can be as simple as a wolf sprinting away or lunging side-to-side or enraging and howling, calling his pack.

* Varying types of the same enemy that count towards the quest
You see this a lot, actually. Perhaps you are sent to kill Murlocs. Some Murlocs have lightning attacks, some are melee. A good variety is a cheap and fun way to make the grind less dull.

* AI with voices
It would be quite entertaining to start off a battle with a humanoid NPC where he's taunting you but near the end of the battle starts begging for his life or dying with pride.

The problem with unpredictable movement in AI is that it does eventually become predicable. Speaking of beasts though, I thought they did a good job in New World with the lynx mechanics where it would break away from combat and dash to the side, so that it was out of your range to hit it.

AI with voices reminds of me of Conan Exiles. What they say varies on the mob type, but they do taunt as well as say something like "I never wanted to be here" upon death.

Quintus

Vyraka wrote: »

The problem with unpredictable movement in AI is that it does eventually become predicable. Speaking of beasts though, I thought they did a good job in New World with the lynx mechanics where it would break away from combat and dash to the side, so that it was out of your range to hit it.

AI with voices reminds of me of Conan Exiles. What they say varies on the mob type, but they do taunt as well as say something like "I never wanted to be here" upon death.

Hey, we've been playing some of the same games. Yeah, the beasts in NW definitely have some great movement! The thing with keeping unpredictable movement fresh is having multiple movement sets, encountering them in new terrain, and adding a certain level of RNG that triggers a specific set.

Conan is my game Good to see another survival gamer in these here parts.

CaptnChuck

Man this title sounds wrong to me. Maybe I'm just too young.

Ulf

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Man this title sounds wrong to me. Maybe I'm just too young.

I does sound wrong, but I put that title thinking that we all understand the concept of " Grind " in the context of gaming.

Ulf

stolyaR wrote: »

Ulf wrote: »

Hello !

The other day, we were having a great conversation with a buddy of mine, sort of brainstorm session, and we are looking forward for the current development of AoC.

Im pretty sure that the Intrepid team might have this in mind but I wanted to discuss it anyway and hear everybody's thoughts about Grinding ( regarding Killing PvE ) But specially in the way that some of us really like to "SOMETIMES" Grind brainlessly. Maybe put some music and kill stuff.

Is understandable that quests and PVE most of the times goes like: " Go here, kill 0/25, pick up 0/10 , talk to this guy, done "
( Like we saw in New World's preview or most WoW-like questlines in FFxiv)

But sometimes, bigger amounts are not bad. For example a few quests from Lineage 2: The 700 Mobs from Wall of Argos , the one you needed to make the 3rd class change, and in more populated servers you had to call your guild to protect some important character that really needed to have that quest ready for the next Raid Boss, Or you were a lonewolf that waited for those 3 monsters in the back to respawn, but you were able to do your quest via patience and discipline ( Or more quest items in lower population servers )

Or the Varka's / Ketra's Alliances, where you needed only the 1st or 2nd alliance to progress your class change but you could also keep leveling the alliance to exchange Recipes and Keys needed for crafting from some NPC's, etc. And each Alliance level was like 150-300-500-700- with some Bosses here and there etc. It was fun, make a party, spend hours farming, defend your spot if someone came to attack you, and so on.

Or the Coin's quest at Level 40+ from Hunters Village, that allowed you to farm tons of skeletons and dragons in Hunters/Dragon Valley and have a chance to get C grade armor ( Chronicle 4 -Interlude )

The idea of this is that, sometimes, you get to kill stuff, withouth having to got to town every 20 mins to deliver the quest.
I would love to read what are people's thoughts about this

Just consider it, to have some variety

Have a great day everyone !

Ulf.

I'm missing for good grind to (group grind also).
The good times of Giant's Cave, LoA or some Catacombs for ancient aden.

Oh yes !!! Giants Cave with an Archers party... prophet, etc... good times

Voidwalkers

I'm really looking forward to "quest sponsorship" thing, it might be an answer to the grinding issue, although not sure how it's going to work yet.

Let's say, I'm a leatherworker looking to make 200 wolf leather armors, for whatever reason. Instead of sweeping the local market clean of wolf pelts, and risk having to buy more at a higher price, it would be nice if I could travel to a nearby village node, which I know is close to a forest with tons of wolves, and post like 10 quests asking for 200 wolf pelts each. Reward calculated at around the usual market price for pelts.

A win for the leatherworker, and a win for the grind-lovers.

So, may be no grinding quests from the NPCs, but let players issue them instead.

Ulf

Voidwalkers wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to "quest sponsorship" thing, it might be an answer to the grinding issue, although not sure how it's going to work yet.

Let's say, I'm a leatherworker looking to make 200 wolf leather armors, for whatever reason. Instead of sweeping the local market clean of wolf pelts, and risk having to buy more at a higher price, it would be nice if I could travel to a nearby village node, which I know is close to a forest with tons of wolves, and post like 10 quests asking for 200 wolf pelts each. Reward calculated at around the usual market price for pelts.

A win for the leatherworker, and a win for the grind-lovers.

So, may be no grinding quests from the NPCs, but let players issue them instead.

I love that idea man... didn't have that in my book, ima keep an eye for any development of the quest sponsorship.

Valento92

CaptnChuck wrote: »

Man this title sounds wrong to me. Maybe I'm just too young.

A catchy title I agree but the OP's suggestion is harmless in my eyes. I also miss quests that featured a lot of grinding, especially with the party (I'm looking at Allods Online).

Yoanna

I think it would make sense and be a breath of fresh air if somehow grinding would be tied to the weapon progression system. It would be very cool if you could earn additional skill points for your weapon of choice by slaying hundreds of enemies with it. Or unlock some perks like a 1% dmg increase vs beast type X for example.

stolyaR

Archi McQueen wrote: »

I think it would make sense and be a breath of fresh air if somehow grinding would be tied to the weapon progression system. It would be very cool if you could earn additional skill points for your weapon of choice by slaying hundreds of enemies with it. Or unlock some perks like a 1% dmg increase vs beast type X for example.

I would love to see that!

Tragnar

Archi McQueen wrote: »

I think it would make sense and be a breath of fresh air if somehow grinding would be tied to the weapon progression system. It would be very cool if you could earn additional skill points for your weapon of choice by slaying hundreds of enemies with it. Or unlock some perks like a 1% dmg increase vs beast type X for example.

As long as these perks are not infinite then I don't have a lot against it. This is just another progression system not tied to your level even though the suggestion such as 1% dmg is boring. Personally I hope that Ashes will avoid overall % modifiers. Spare use for cooldowns especially is quite ok, but not permanent passives

Personally I dislike fetch quests especially with a big amount, just because they were invented to direct players to different grinding spots. However letting players create fetch quests themselves and post them in nodes is pretty amazing idea. Giving those player quests xp as reward would be great as well (ofc the xp would be determined by the required goods and its amount)