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[Suggestion] Cosmetics. A Crafter's Bane?

QuintusQuintus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
Greetings everyone!

Allow me to begin by saying that I think it's great Intrepid is trying to give players a sense of uniqueness through cosmetics. I want funding to shower them like Niagara because I love the idea of AoC. I love nearly every single thing they're trying to accomplish. That's why you'll see me in A2-B2. The only thing I don't totally love is the foretold system for cosmetics.

Woah! It's a touchy topic, I know. I've put some thought into this so please allow me a chance to make my case.

Firstly, in this thread, I want to shelve reservations about the visuals that a proliferation of cosmetics may cause. I think everyone has heard both sides of that debate already. We know what some cosmetic-heavy Eastern MMORPGs end up looking like. Some like it and some don't. Regardless, there's going to be a lot of cosmetics in AoC. I don't think anyone can change Intrepid's mind on the matter and I'm not here to try and accomplish that either. I do, however, believe it's possible to have a constructive conversation on the implementation of this feature.

That's what we're talking about here: the implementation of cosmetics.

I want to focus my discussion on how cosmetics might affect those who choose the artisan class of crafting. Let me clarify, during this post I am only speaking about cosmetics for items that can be crafted. I have no qualms with cosmetics like emotes or hairstyles. Go wild.

Based on some conflicting quotes from Steven on the cosmetics and crafting wiki pages, I sense there may be room for this feature to evolve. So let's look at the issue.

The Problems

1. Crafting loses some appeal because it's only useful for stats and not appearance. It may be disheartening to learn a high tier recipe and craft it for someone only to watch them apply a cosmetic skin to it.

2. There is no cost to applying cosmetics. Players lose uniqueness because they often and freely change skins. The sense of pride in one's appearance is diminished. Isn't the whole point of cosmetics so that you recognize a player for their individuality?

The Solutions

Have crafters complete a questline that allows them to apply skins for other players based on what type of crafting they are choosing to master. Allow a crafter to perform a limited number of transmutes per day increasing in number based on skill. Assign a resource cost. Assign tiers to cosmetics.

Clarification: the one seeking to have a cosmetic applied must have that cosmetic. The crafter does not apply their own cosmetics to another player's gear. No P2W. No RWT.


Process of becoming a cosmetic-enabled crafter:

1. For each type of item, based on your chosen mastery (mount, armoring, etc), complete a questline resulting in the creation of a transmuted item for an NPC. Lower tier cosmetics have easier quests, can be accessed by lower level crafters and the crafter can generally apply more of them per day than master-tier cosmetics.


Process of having your item transmuted into a cosmetic item:

1. Obtain the cosmetic via achievements in-game or the shop.
2. Obtain the processed resource used in transmutation. The rarity of the gatherable is debatable but I would prefer it to be difficult to obtain.
3. Connect with a crafter (or be a crafter) who has met the pre-requisites to transmute your specific items into cosmetic items.

The Benefits

* Creates player interactions
* Adds a new commercial resource which will never lose demand
* Gives crafters a sense of pride that they took an action to help another player look the way they wanted
* A limited number of transmutes per day gives relevance to a greater number of crafters
* Adds a sense of achievement through completing artisan quests
* Prevents most instances of noob gear being transmuted (everyone looking epic all the time)
* Creates greater overall intrigue for cosmetics

"LF master crafter to transmute turtle mount into Kraken, have mats, will tip"

Comments

  • ViBunjaViBunja Member, Alpha Two
    I'm pretty sure as a crafter you actually have a mini-game where you design what you are going to craft. The stats depend on the components alone and have nothing to do with the design.
  • QuintusQuintus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    ViBunja wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure as a crafter you actually have a mini-game where you design what you are going to craft. The stats depend on the components alone and have nothing to do with the design.

    This is from the wiki, "An "item creation suite" that allows crafters to create unique appearances for items has been discussed as a future possibility." This is from a 2017 live-stream and Steven mentions they haven't fully explored it yet. Do we have any other information on this?

    I think this a really great feature that could be improved upon by some aspects of my suggestion. Thanks for bringing it up!
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    @Quintus - Intriguing idea. Would be neat to blend this with the direction the thread on collections is taking. I’d much rather spend part of my $15 sub collecting mats to craft a cosmetic skin than buy one from a cash shop for $3.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • BricktopBricktop Member, Alpha Two
    edited September 2020
    Fantastic post. I read the entire thing. I love the idea of only having crafters be able to apply skins. This creates an even greater need for them as you stated, and you could even have an entire profession dedicated to it possibly.

    Very well thought out post, hope something like this gets implemented.
  • VentharienVentharien Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Good on you for bringing this up in a constructive matter. Personally, i don't believe they should do this though. This individual has already paid for a skin for a certain item type. Adding additional hoops to jump through in addition to achieving the actual item are just going to be seen as asinine.

    I don't think the cosmetics will be as much of a problem as people think they will be in terms of uniqueness. A finite number of people will have agreed with you that a certain skin was cool or at least their style. Split that into people who were willing to match the support level to get those skins, were around when those skins were available, are in your server, and in your general in game region. For sure you will run into people with your skin, but i don't think it'll be nearly as often a thing or to the degree some people think it will be.

    As to the crafting concerns, once you make someone an item, that's it, its theirs. If they want to turn your burning two hander of badassness into a pink squeek hammer, that's got nothing to do with you.

    Now, i do agree crafters should get some unique design choices when making weapons and armor, and it would be even more awesome if some of those were behind an adventure, raid, or series of challenges. That way the crafter could enjoy a degree of notoriety for their efforts that's always awesome to feel in a game like this, and players could flaunt their new cool toys that only a limited amount of people have managed to get their hands on. All the while being in game interactions and stories, which is always a win to me.
  • CaptnChuckCaptnChuck Member
    edited September 2020
    ViBunja wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure as a crafter you actually have a mini-game where you design what you are going to craft. The stats depend on the components alone and have nothing to do with the design.

    Not true. The stats depend on you, the crafter. Not the components.
  • VolgaireVolgaire Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Wait who would apply racial skins ?
  • QuintusQuintus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @Ventharien You make some excellent points. Thank you for bringing them up.

    I admit I have made some foolish assumptions on the player base in designing this feature. I assume that the majority of this community is not about instant gratification. Some people have been here happily waiting for years for this game because it's slated to be the next step in the evolution of MMORPGs. Although announced in 2016 here we are 4 years later and the community is more alive than ever.

    What does that have anything to do with cosmetics? Have you ever ordered something nice for yourself but it wasn't going to arrive for a week? This may frustrate some people but for others, it's something to look forward to. I see this community as the forward-looking type. I see the conversation and note the adoration for Intrepid. People are expecting them to do great things. You cannot accomplish great things by presenting what's already out there. I think the "wow killer", a title briefly held by many, would agree at this point.

    Once you have a skin, you could have the mindset of, "Oh great, now I have to do something." However, let us not forget, Ashes is a game. I think most people, after purchasing a skin, would be excited to complete a process to earn what they paid for. Maybe that sounds backwards, but think about it for a second. You purchased this blueprint for $3. Now it's in your inventory teasing you. It's saying, "I'm ready when you are. Let's get going. Let's go get that resource. Let's message our crafter buddy." It's a call to action that YOU initiated instead of a mindless application and that gives it greater meaning. You're going to see other people with cool skins and know that they completed this process. I think that will completely wipe out what may remain of a feeling of asininity.

    I think you may be underestimating the sheer amount of cosmetics that will be in Ashes. I'm not worried about running into a girl wearing the same dress. I'm worried about never recognizing anyone because they're always changing cosmetics. A sense of community is important to me and I believe it is important to the livelihood of any online RPG.

    What you describe of cosmetics being, "behind an adventure, raid or series of challenges," is a great concept that has been explored by many games. I hope it makes it into this one and I don't see why it can't tie into this feature.

    In an MMORPG, instant gratification for major features means you've missed a content opportunity.
  • VyrakaVyraka Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    ViBunja wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure as a crafter you actually have a mini-game where you design what you are going to craft. The stats depend on the components alone and have nothing to do with the design.

    Not true. The stats depend on you, the crafter. Not the components.

    Is that confirmed? I would have thought that a dragon's scale would give different stats versus a regular lizard scale.
    Axiom-Guild-Signature-Vyraka.png
  • QuintusQuintus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    miaomiao wrote: »
    Wait who would apply racial skins ?

    Interesting thought. I'm not sure if there has been an in-depth discussion on this. However, it would be neat if the racial skins that ship with the game could only be applied by crafters of that specific race.

    It would make sense that if you're looking to have an Orcish appearance that you would need to find an Orc who knows the intricacies of his racial attire to complete the application. Alternatively, perhaps as a crafter, you could venture through a questline that leads to learning such an ability. After enough quests, you become a multi-racial crafter.

    That would add even more depth to the field.
  • Haven't seen it mentioned but this reminds me of ESO. People pay large amounts of money for motif packs, allowing them to craft armor in a certain style, giving them a clear advantage in-game as a crafter. If it turns out that crafters can apply the cosmetics they own to armor they craft, I expect to see them paying out large amounts of money to be considered premium crafters.

    From the sound of this though, crafters will be very useful, so cosmetics honestly shouldn't worry them. I expect leveling a crafting profession to take as long or longer than maxing your characters actual level. Along with that, I personally wouldn't care if I looked like a clown, as long as the stats of my gear were top tier.
  • QuintusQuintus Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @Merek The motif packs are definitely a cash grab. The system I describe here would most likely result in lower cosmetic sales due to the added resource cost. However, I do believe it would make for a more meaningful experience for everyone who wears cosmetics as well as everyone who sees cosmetics. Not to mention adding even more depth to crafting.

    The way this is different from the motif packs is that crafters are essentially borrowing and returning someone else's cosmetic blueprint to make that person the item. The crafter doesn't end up owning or learning the blueprint so there's no possibility of p2w.
  • CROW3CROW3 Member, Alpha Two
    Quintus wrote: »
    The system I describe here would most likely result in lower cosmetic sales due to the added resource cost.

    Possibly. Though the cash shop could just be a different channel to get similar cosmetics and skip the hassle of crafting.

    I tend to dislike cash shops in general - especially for a subbed game - but I can imagine them pivoting this direction.
    AoC+Dwarf+750v3.png
  • FuryBladeborneFuryBladeborne Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited September 2020
    So, once a person pays for a cosmetic item (which many people view as a high cost per item), the player has to have the appropriate gear available (which may have required a lot of work in game); and now, they must also do an additional quest and find a crafter with the right skill to apply it...I am not sure that is going to be hugely popular.
    Quintus wrote: »
    @Ventharien
    What does that have anything to do with cosmetics? Have you ever ordered something nice for yourself but it wasn't going to arrive for a week? This may frustrate some people but for others, it's something to look forward to. I see this community as the forward-looking type.
    Whether the current community is the forward-looking type is not really relevant as new cosmetics will continue to be sold after release of the game. Additionally, the current player base is only a small fraction of the total player base at release (assuming a successful launch) as Ashes is still years away from release and many people will not closely follow or support a game so early.
    CROW3 wrote: »
    Quintus wrote: »
    The system I describe here would most likely result in lower cosmetic sales due to the added resource cost.
    Possibly. Though the cash shop could just be a different channel to get similar cosmetics and skip the hassle of crafting.
    I would rate probably rather than possibly. Basic economics, increasing costs decreases sales.
    CROW3 wrote: »
    ...and skip the hassle of crafting.
    IS has presented gear as being primarily crafted since gear drops will be relatively rare. Applying a cosmetic will still require crafting to create the gear to be altered.
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