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Alliances & betrayal

TallisTallis Member
in General Discussion
Hi all, question here from a general MMORPG vet with extensive experience in EvE.

I am wondering how betrayal & deception will/should be dealt with in the game. Eve is known for it's loose rule-set, meaning that you are allowed to scam people, steal from people etc. . My question: will you be able & allowed to positon spies in competing guilds and e.g. steal their guildbanks if you gained their trust? I understand that such game philosophy rightfully differs from game to game & would like to hear the communities views.

As an extension of this, although maybe not directly apearant: will/should there be the option to have formal alliances between guilds, including alliance-chat?

Let me hear your thoughts!

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    stolyaRstolyaR Member
    I would love to see that!
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    MerekMerek Member
    If anyone is stupid enough to allow someone they don't completely trust full access to their guild bank, it's on them. I don't see Intrepid intervening, nor should they.

    Relating to a Alliances, https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alliances
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    stolyaRstolyaR Member
    edited September 2020
    Merek wrote: »
    If anyone is stupid enough to allow someone they don't completely trust full access to their guild bank, it's on them. I don't see Intrepid intervening, nor should they.

    Relating to a Alliances, https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Alliances

    I remember in Lineage 2 somehow our enemies always knew where and when we are farming raid bosses.
    They always knew our location in sieges.
    We didn't understand how.
    One day one of our guild officers that was in our guild for an year+ and was very loyal asked for top set with boss accessories for olympiad and after he got them he just left the guild.
    One week later he joined our enemies guild.
    After long conversations in forum they told as that he was their spy for an year+.

    Shit like (spies/ninja looting/betrayers) that makes stories an legends make the game interesting, makes the game's forum a cool place with many intrigues and forum wars .
    Youtubers an content creators using those stories in their channels and by that promoting the game even more.
    Those stories live forever take a look at WoW stories! they are great!
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    BricktopBricktop Member
    edited September 2020
    I already have an espionage subsection of my guild, so it'll be awkward if spying isn't allowed.

    There is already going to be an alliance feature with an alliance chat.
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    TragnarTragnar Member
    It would be extremely bad if this wasn't allowed. I want the game to have the "stupid" tax and doors open to any guild drama.
    “Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil.”

    ― Plato
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    TallisTallis Member
    To clarify: I do not solely mean the act of spying - I assume that is fine. I simply hope the act of theft (e.g. emptying their guild bank) is considered fair game. I know these things are considered griefing & are bannable in e.g. WoW.
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    BricktopBricktop Member
    edited September 2020
    Tallis wrote: »
    To clarify: I do not solely mean the act of spying - I assume that is fine. I simply hope the act of theft (e.g. emptying their guild bank) is considered fair game. I know these things are considered griefing & are bannable in e.g. WoW.

    Yes I'm curious as well.

    My guess would be it's gonna be fine, but you never know. I'm of the belief that you can prevent getting your gbank drained and theft/espionage/sabotage/scamming all falls under "Part of the game".

    I have played games with all my officers for a decade now, don't give gbank access to people you just met and you won't have a problem.
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    stolyaRstolyaR Member
    So basically the game simply should provide permission management tool (by group or person) and that's it.
    I think also that it's a MUST HAVE feature.
    Why?
    Because if a guild master now going to vacation for a week or two he need the ability to give the guild bank (or any other guild feature) control to some one.
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    VoidwalkersVoidwalkers Member
    I don't think in game spying / theft should be banned completely unless it's done with an exploit / bug or something, but I think it's a really ... "unfair" play-style, and may be it could be improved (although I have no idea how).

    I'm mostly having an issue with the risk-vs-reward of in game spying: An in game spy can too easily get away without a scratch.

    Real life spies risk a lot to pull off what they do (in many cases, their life?), and if they get caught, the consequences for them are beyond serious. However for an in game spy, I guess all that's at stake is ... the time & effort & social engineering the spy-player had invested into ... ? And I assume in most cases ppl never use their MAIN character as spy. So no matter how brutal the betrayal was, there's not much the victim party could do in revenge. KOS? meh feel free to kill my spy alt 1000 times over, if you ever catch me logged in on that abandoned alt. Or I could simply delete that alt, done.

    Although one can argue that on the other side, alllllll the victim could lose, through in game espionage, are just in game assets, i.e. essentially time & effort, so it's a fair game.

    Dunno, just my opinions. It feels unfair.
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    SebastianaSebastiana Member
    Exploits should be ban-able yes, espionage? no. Be careful in who you trust and find those players you trust before you even start this game now. Maybe a work around would be to allow guilds to set a bounty to a legacy of a players account. So their entire account becomes corrupted if used on any character on any server or on that server for a certain number of kills when used. But it would need to be extremely expensive and require a guild vote to be used. It shouldn't be an option to be used just because someone leaves your guild to go play with friends. There needs to be a significant reason and loss.
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    PandiumPandium Member, Settler, Kickstarter
    edited September 2020
    1. If someone take all items from guild storage you cant say it is stolen and you cant call person who took all items thief. Guild leader gave those permissions and he and only him is responsible for it.

    2. Anyway, as i said this long time ago, there should be fair game regarding to guild storage. Ashes of Creation is stuck in old way regarding to benefits which comes with guild and guild storage.

    If guild successfully won in castle war, and with that success guild gets tax money, to be fair to guild members every member who participated in that castle war should get % of that tax money, not guild, not only leader but every member because sh1t happens and we all know it because there is sooo many situations where:

    a) Guild storage is robbed (not really robbed, just blame guild leader for giving permissions)

    b) Leader doesnt participate in any tasks in gathering, just taking some % of gold and materials from guild storage which "slave members" collected and send it to guild storage because guild leader asked for it for "guild" -.-

    c) Leader robbed guild storage and disbanded guild. Now if we take closer look to this, i think we all agree when we say "we need to blame leader and ask interpid to do something about it". But... what guild leader did wrong? Answer is nothing. It is his guild and no1 forced you to send anything to guild storage or to him.

    Well, if this is the case, then we can all agree on number "2". Make guild more fair and less "thefts" from guild storage. So in my opinion it should go something like this:

    Tax money -> Split evenly between guild members who participated in successfully castle war.
    Option for guild leaders to send "requirements for castle improvements" to members of guild, so members who earned gold from tax by winning castle war can decide what they gonna do about it not to spend time winning war and then get nothing from it.



    Now, for spies you cant catch them, there is no way and official formal alliances are useless because even if game have for example, invite max 3 guilds to form alliance, there is always going to be alliance between other alliances or guilds who are not part of your "formal alliance between 3 guilds", so you can have whole mess, something like:

    Alliance:
    Guild A
    Guild B
    Guild C

    Guild A
    Ally with guild R

    Guild B
    Ally with guild R


    Guild C
    War with guild R

    So, what happens when guild C attacks guild R but there are allys with your ally guild A and B? But guild R is not formal ingame ally?

    But something tells me there is going to amazing moment when these "kinds" of alliances are formed to manipulate Stock Exchange.

    Edit:
    wiki...

    Alts on the same account can join different guilds.
    Intrigue, espionage and intelligence gathering is a legitimate aspect of the game.

    @StevenSharif @LieutenantToast go for number "2".

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